Jesus is not god

Carlita said:

His disciples called Jesus Lord God and so forth. Where is the Father in all this? Does He exist or is Jesus running the show? (no sarcasm intended)

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There are three, and the three are One and the same.

Carlita said:

Sounds like Jesus is speaking on behalf of His Father. Christianity says to reconcile with the Father you must go through Christ. So of course, the emphasis will be on Christ as Lord, Almighty, et cetera... that doesn't void that He sits at the right hand of His Father and how the gospels dictate the relationship (meaning more than one person) between Him and His Father. I read revelation years and years ago and never understood a word. I just know that its an insult to say Jesus is His own Father. I don't believe Jesus would care for that. You have to go "through" Him to get to the Father.

I think I mentioned earlier. If Jesus is the Father, there is no mediator between a Christian and God. There would only be the Father and the Christian.

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There are three, and the three are one and the same.

God is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.
Jesus is God made visible.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God as is given without limit.

Carlita said:

Since God sent His Son to act and speak on His behalf, that is not the case. So you must go through the Son to get to God. That makes them separate people but like in divinity or Spirit. Since, Jesus says, He gets His authority from His Father not of Himself.

It was once told to me that God the Son is not the same as God the Father. They said that God is the link between all three persons--Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. So they can be each other through God (not as a being) but as a being--the Father, each person is separate. If that makes sense?

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I think I know what you are saying.
However, if they are separate, then there is not ONE GOD. They would then be three separate Gods.

1 Corinthians 8:6 yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.


1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

Carlita said:

They cannot be the same. That defies biblical and common sense logic. Jesus shares His Father's divinity. I say His Father separate because that is how Jesus emphasis His place in relation to His Father (God). He never said He is His Father. He says He is the Son of Man. God say's that Jesus is His Son. Neither of them say "Jesus is God."

If God is Jesus then He there is no separation between the Father and Son. If that be the case, then why use "Father and Son" when there is only one Spirit? Why would Jesus say 'look to the Father' when He is the Father?

Understand where I'm getting at? Yes, we are all spirits in these bodies. I am not you and you are not me but we share the same spirit because we are interconnected. (The same as God and Jesus). I am not you because we have different characteristics of our spirit that makes us unique (God being the Father while Jesus being human and His Son).

It is not a bad thing to say Jesus is not God. I'm saying its illogical to assume He is because He is divine. The Father can make anyone divine but they can never replace Him.

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No, it's /He is the same Deity.
Jesus said, The only way to know the father is through Him.
This leaves us with two interpretational options.
1. Only Christians can and have ever known the father. /This is where Jesus isn't the father, and by accepting Jesus, one can know the father.
Remember. Jesus very clearly says no one knows the father accept through Him. This isn't a metaphoric statement, He says it very explicitly.
2. Jesus is the father. The earthly manifestation of Him. In this interpretation, non-Christians can know the father, they just don't recognize the 'son', who is God in man incarnate. This might not be 'ideal', for people who hear of Jesus, and don't accept Him, but it doesn't say that only Xians can know the father, as your interpretation must necessarily imply.

I can agree with that, Christian's would only be the ones to understand Jesus being the Father. When I read "The only way to know the Father is to know Him" I am seeing two separate people that are combined with One Spirit, which is God or the Father, if you like. So when Jesus refers to the Father, His own divinity shows who He is devoted to and His relation to His own Father. Since He speaks on the Father's behalf, of course, when you see Him you see the Father. When you hear His words you hear the Father's Words.

When you combine the two together, the plural language and actions should be singular. In Genesis (a common used example) it should say "I don't want them to know good and evil like I do." Rather than we.

Jesus should say "look to me if you want the answer to your questions" rather than "don't look at me, only He (the Father) is the one that is good." Rough translation; don't have my bible with me.

It just seem so clear that Jesus is acting on behalf of His Father and that Him sharing His Father's divinity makes Him divine. If that, as you and Yes translates it, makes Him God, so be it. However, I was told that being God and being the Father are two separate entities. If that is the case, than yes, Jesus is God (since God would be the spirit they share). If that is not the case what I see is the profound nature of Christ; that He is spiritually married to His Father (bad wording); and that He has come, as God's Son, to die for all. Since I made an analogy of the child being part of the parent, it's the same as God and Christ. However, rather than just "sharing" characteristics and personality of his or her parent in the parent/child case, God and the Son share divinity or Spirit.

Sharing the Spirit of God (not the Father) if what I heard is true doesn't make someone God.

Also, Jesus and the Father never says "I am Jesus; Jesus is me."

He uses metaphoric and symbolic language to define the "relationship" He has with His own Son.

If Jesus is God, how can the Father have any type of relationship with His Son.?

If Jesus is God, why would we need to go "through" Jesus to get to the Father when Jesus is the Father? (in this question)?

It really wouldn't be Christianity anymore; because, we don't need the Father all we would need is Jesus since He would be the Father.

Do you (and Yes) at least understand what I mean?

disciple said:

No, it's /He is the same Deity.
Jesus said, The only way to know the father is through Him.
This leaves us with two interpretational options.
1. Only Christians can and have ever known the father. /This is where Jesus isn't the father, and by accepting Jesus, one can know the father.
Remember. Jesus very clearly says no one knows the father accept through Him. This isn't a metaphoric statement, He says it very explicitly.
2. Jesus is the father. The earthly manifestation of Him. In this interpretation, non-Christians can know the father, they just don't recognize the 'son', who is God in man incarnate. This might not be 'ideal', for people who hear of Jesus, and don't accept Him, but it doesn't say that only Xians can know the father, as your interpretation must necessarily imply.

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Yes said:

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and mankind, the man Christ Jesus,

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This quote makes Jesus the mediator between the Christian and God. How can Jesus be the mediator and the Father at the same time?

Also, hm, if they were separate, they would be separate Gods. I'd think more, God is the Father who is the authority and Creator of all. Jesus is the Son and Human who shares His Father's divinity and is the Savior of all. The Holy Spirit precedes from the Father after baptism and the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior.

If they separate and become separate Gods, of course, that's against Christian doctrine. However, since that would not be the case, I'd still see them as One even though they are separate in both entity and purpose.

I don't call that One God, though. God to me is separate and I read from scripture OT and New that He is the Creator. So that One (that makes Him the image of rather than is) His Father is the spirit they share.

Similar to as I say the parent and child. The child is in the image of his parent.

It seems so clear to me. It doesn't negate the purpose of His "Father's" goal. The Father can send His Son and make Him perfect (since He is His child, of course), and die for those who believe.

The relationship between Father and Son is so profound that to make both each other voids who each other is by themselves. One being the Creator the other the Savior.

Understand?

No child says that.

--We disagree here. If I were a parent, my child would share my spirit and visa versa. Since we are spirits that is the quality we both would share given our connection with each other as mother and daughter.

When I see my grandmother at our funeral during the wake, I saw myself in her and she in me. We share a link, our whole family from time beginning, and that link can never be broken. We are separate in our characteristics and such; however, we share the same spirit as a family.

A clone is supposed to be the person who was cloned.

As long as the clone is not a replacement of the other clone (making it not a clone anymore), then it is separate even though they look alike and share the same qualities.

Our children do not have our same spirit.

--I disagree heavily.

You did not get that teaching from the Bible.

--The analogy is the same as the relationship between Father and Son in the Bible. Since I believe both parent and child can share the same spirit, I see that same thing in scripture that the Son shares the same spirit as His Father.

We all have our own spirit. Our spirit looks exactly like us...every hair and freckle.

I disagree. Our bodies are different; what holds us together as spirits are the same.. and hopefully, you agree that spirit that holds us together (as well as the Son and Father) is God.

The Bible says that Jesus is God made visible. Jesus is not insulting his Father.

That's what it seems. When one takes on another form of another, there should only be One person left. Obviously, that is not the case given Jesus always looks to, prays, and gets His calling from His Father.

If that were the case, then when the Father came as an image of His Son (as it says in scripture) Jesus would not need to refer to anyone other than Himself.

Unless maybe you're saying Jesus is a clone of His Father???

Jesus said when you see him---you see the Father.

Jesus is God come as a Son of Man.

Explained above.

Do you at least understand where I'm coming from?

For some reason Yes and Disciple it is so profound to see the Son as the image of His parent because each of them are separate entities with separate purposes...one being the Creator who wants His children to reconcile with Him; the other is the Savior doing His Father (not His own) will to save others and speak about salvation on behalf of (rather than as) His Father.

Yes said:

There are three, and

God is invisible and lives in unapproachable light.
Jesus is God made visible.
The Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God as is given without limit.

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Oh come on! Are they 'the same', or are they NOT 'the same' ?!?

You say "the three are one and the same" .. and in the next breath, you list their differences ..

.. you are very frustrating! Perhaps you can't see that you are talking 'doublespeak'

Carlita said:

This quote makes Jesus the mediator between the Christian and God. How can Jesus be the mediator and the Father at the same time?

Also, hm, if they were separate, they would be separate Gods. I'd think more, God is the Father who is the authority and Creator of all. Jesus is the Son and Human who shares His Father's divinity and is the Savior of all. The Holy Spirit precedes from the Father after baptism and the acceptance of Jesus as Lord and Savior.

If they separate and become separate Gods, of course, that's against Christian doctrine. However, since that would not be the case, I'd still see them as One even though they are separate in both entity and purpose.

I don't call that One God, though. God to me is separate and I read from scripture OT and New that He is the Creator. So that One (that makes Him the image of rather than is) His Father is the spirit they share.

Similar to as I say the parent and child. The child is in the image of his parent.

It seems so clear to me. It doesn't negate the purpose of His "Father's" goal. The Father can send His Son and make Him perfect (since He is His child, of course), and die for those who believe.

The relationship between Father and Son is so profound that to make both each other voids who each other is by themselves. One being the Creator the other the Savior.

Understand?

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If you say Jesus is separate from God, then that makes two separate and different Gods.

There are three, but the three must be the same.

If Jesus merely had the spirit of a man, then how is it that when we are saved we are given the spirit of a man? No. We are given the Spirit of God when we are saved---it is when JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF lives in us.

John 17:26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

Carlita said:

--We disagree here. If I were a parent, my child would share my spirit and visa versa. Since we are spirits that is the quality we both would share given our connection with each other as mother and daughter.

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You share some of the same traits, you do share your personal spirits. If you both shared spirits, then when one died physically then the other would die physically.

James 2:16 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Did you read what James says?

If you shared a spirit with anyone else, you would both cease to exist when either one of you died physically.

Carlita said:

When I see my grandmother at our funeral during the wake, I saw myself in her and she in me. We share a link, our whole family from time beginning, and that link can never be broken. We are separate in our characteristics and such; however, we share the same spirit as a family.

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I hope that what James says stops you from speaking error about our spirits.

Carlita said:

--The analogy is the same as the relationship between Father and Son in the Bible. Since I believe both parent and child can share the same spirit, I see that same thing in scripture that the Son shares the same spirit as His Father.

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Jesus ' Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Since the Father and Jesus have the same Spirit, they must be the same.

Carlita said:

I disagree. Our bodies are different; what holds us together as spirits are the same.. and hopefully, you agree that spirit that holds us together (as well as the Son and Father) is God.

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We do not receive the Holy Spirit until Jesus saves us and gives us the Holy Spirit.

muhammad_isa said:

Oh come on! Are they 'the same', or are they NOT 'the same' ?!?

You say "the three are one and the same" .. and in the next breath, you list their differences ..

.. you are very frustrating! Perhaps you can't see that you are talking 'doublespeak'

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I do not ever say they are different. There are three, and the three are One and the same.

Numbers 23:19 God is not human, that he should lie, not a human being, that he should change his mind. Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?

The part implying he, God, doesn't change his mind. Imagine my surprise when a friend pointed out that he did just that in the story of Jonah and the whale. God actually change his mind. Jonah 3:9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent . . . Jonah 3:10 . . . and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

I told the guy he just didn't understand what it really meant, but I was not able to explain it. He went on saying if God would not change his mind about something he has set
in motion, and he set all in motion, then what good is prayer that asks him to change his mind on an event that he knew from the beginning would happen? And if he knew it
would not happen, the prayer is still wasted because it wasn't necessary?

I'm really confused.

You share some of the same traits, you do share your personal spirits. If you both shared spirits, then when one died physically then the other would die physically.

James 2:16 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

Did you read what James says?

If you shared a spirit with anyone else, you would both cease to exist when either one of you died physically.

(Remember when I said that a parent and child shares spirit and yet they are "not each other."? Since they are not each other, when one dies [body] the other one does not die with him. The Spirit that connects both parent and child does not die when the parent or child dies.

Likewise with Jesus and His Father. When Jesus "physical" body died on the cross, that doesn't mean the Father died with Him as well. They share one spirit yet they are not each other.

The key words here are "share" and "image of".

I hope that what James says stops you from speaking error about our spirits.

(I still contend that scriptures speaks of the relationship between Jesus and His Father as separate people who are combined by One Spirit which is God.

Even though God connects the two together, that does not make them each other... hence "image of" rather than "is". The key word is "share."

If Jesus is the Father and Himself as well, then there would not need to be a Spirit (God) that holds them together. Jesus would not be in the image of Himself.

Since Jesus is Spirit (as you quoted in scripture), how can He be in the image of who He was to begin with?

Since His body rose with Him when He was resurrected, then again, who is He in the image of?

Jesus ' Spirit is the Holy Spirit. Since the Father and Jesus have the same Spirit, they must be the same.

(No. They share the same Spirit they don't have the same Spirit. [aka there's a third party holding the two together like glue] Jesus, the Father, and the Holy Spirit are three separate entities that without God, cannot exist on their own. Since they "share" each other's nature, they are in the image of each other.

However, because they are separate entities, that makes them unique from each other in purpose, make-up, and nature.

When you are in the image of someone, you do not replace them or be them. If that be the case, you "are" that person rather than in the image of that person.

Like the clone example you gave: if the clone 1 and clone 2 where the same person, then it would just be one clone/person/one body. Since there are two clones, they are separate people, regardless of how alike they are. They are separate in body, mind, spirit (in person), even though though they share the same nature.)

We do not receive the Holy Spirit until Jesus saves us and gives us the Holy Spirit.

Yes, that is scripture; can't disagree with that.

If you say Jesus is separate from God, then that makes two separate and different Gods.

Actually, no. Since I said Jesus and the Father share the same Spirit (God), they are alike in that nature; image of each other. However, my point is, they cannot be God because God is what is holding them together. Without God, Jesus would be human just like us and there would be no Creator.

There are three, but the three must be the same.

They can't be the same. That's illogical. That doesn't mean they don't have the same divinity. They are different because they have a different purpose, traits, and physical make-up (one being Spirit another human).

I can't think of another example but a family. A "picture-perfect" family shares the same blood line. Their is a father, mother, and two children both with same parents. Their nature is in the blood (and culture) that links them together.

However, what makes them "not each other" is that the Father and Mother are parents, the daughter and son are children, and each family member have different roles assigned to their relationship with each other. So in this case, each family member are in the image of each other because they share the same blood line even though "they are not each other" because of different traits, purposes, and goals.

Same with the Father, Jesus, and the Christian. Each share the same nature (or bloodline) which is God.

However, each differ in purpose (Father-parent; Jesus Savior; Christian a devotee to Christ) and different traits (Father-authority; Jesus Human with a divine nature; Christian human within him the Holy Spirit)...because they differ in this and other things, they cannot be each other.

If you can explain how two people who do not share anything else in common other than their spiritual nature can be one person and the same 100 percent, that would help me understand where you're coming from.

If Jesus merely had the spirit of a man, then how is it that when we are saved we are given the spirit of a man?

He has the Spirit of God (explained above, well, and below too).

No. We are given the Spirit of God when we are saved---it is when JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF lives in us.

John 17:26 I have made you[e] known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them.”

When I read that, I think: Okay, when I believe in Christ who is "in the image" and speaks "on behalf" of His Father, when He (Jesus) is in me, the Father would be in me.

That makes more sense than:

When I read that, I think: I don't need to believe in the Father [for whom Jesus refers to] because by following Jesus I am following the Father.

I never agreed with that. As my signature says, God is in the water we drank, the food we eat, the earth we die and trod on, and so forth...to take the Father out of the situation by saying He is His Son I have to make up my mind who actually exists, is it the Father? or is it the Son? It can't be both since they both are the same.

Yet, there is both because they share the same nature but have different purposes, traits, characters, and so forth. These differences make them different from each other rather than alike like clones.

When you share divinity that doesn't make one God. God is what's holding each person together and making up their nature. They aren't replacing themselves as God but living who they are through the Spirit of God.

Understand?

Carlita said:

I can agree with that, Christian's would only be the ones to understand Jesus being the Father. When I read "The only way to know the Father is to know Him" I am seeing two separate people that are combined with One Spirit, which is God or the Father, if you like. So when Jesus refers to the Father, His own divinity shows who He is devoted to and His relation to His own Father. Since He speaks on the Father's behalf, of course, when you see Him you see the Father. When you hear His words you hear the Father's Words.

When you combine the two together, the plural language and actions should be singular. In Genesis (a common used example) it should say "I don't want them to know good and evil like I do." Rather than we.

Jesus should say "look to me if you want the answer to your questions" rather than "don't look at me, only He (the Father) is the one that is good." Rough translation; don't have my bible with me.

It just seem so clear that Jesus is acting on behalf of His Father and that Him sharing His Father's divinity makes Him divine. If that, as you and Yes translates it, makes Him God, so be it. However, I was told that being God and being the Father are two separate entities. If that is the case, than yes, Jesus is God (since God would be the spirit they share). If that is not the case what I see is the profound nature of Christ; that He is spiritually married to His Father (bad wording); and that He has come, as God's Son, to die for all. Since I made an analogy of the child being part of the parent, it's the same as God and Christ. However, rather than just "sharing" characteristics and personality of his or her parent in the parent/child case, God and the Son share divinity or Spirit.

Sharing the Spirit of God (not the Father) if what I heard is true doesn't make someone God.

Also, Jesus and the Father never says "I am Jesus; Jesus is me."

He uses metaphoric and symbolic language to define the "relationship" He has with His own Son.

If Jesus is God, how can the Father have any type of relationship with His Son.?

If Jesus is God, why would we need to go "through" Jesus to get to the Father when Jesus is the Father? (in this question)?

It really wouldn't be Christianity anymore; because, we don't need the Father all we would need is Jesus since He would be the Father.

Do you (and Yes) at least understand what I mean?

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When Jesus says the only way to know the father is through Him, it is de-facto putting Himself in a position of Deific authority. But that is just an example. I worship the 'man form' Deity, Jesus, because I don't think He is just a 'man'. I consider Him 'God'. That's the whole point, and how I differ with many Christians. I also don't think worshipping the father in a sort of quasi-chrisitan manner is what Jesus wanted, either. Jesus definitiely stated that He was the way to the father, He said no one can even know the father except through Him. So, that's some reasoning behind my position. I understand your opinion as well, I think it's tomato-tomahto.

Jesus is an earthly incarnation of the 'father'. He's God. In Spirit form, He is, literally the father. 'son of god' is sort of a metaphor, here. Jesus as "man", or part man, is sort of the 'son', of the Father, /Himself, really,.. But it's not really 'two different beings', here.

Thank you. I think I understand where you come from. I think. I have soft spots for Christianity (for Christ); but, I never agreed with Christians saying He is God.. so that kind of pulled me away from being part of His Body. I'll always see Him as a guide to the Father; but, if I had a choice as who to worship (which I hate that word actually) it would be the Father. Someone told me once my opinions were similar to Muslim. Which I thought was odd, since I know nothing about the Muslim faith. /shrugs/

disciple said:

When Jesus says the only way to know the father is through Him, it is de-facto putting Himself in a position of Deific authority. But that is just an example. I worship the 'man form' Deity, Jesus, because I don't think He is just a 'man'. I consider Him 'God'. That's the whole point, and how I differ with many Christians. I also don't think worshipping the father in a sort of quasi-chrisitan manner is what Jesus wanted, either. Jesus definitiely stated that He was the way to the father, He said no one can even know the father except through Him. So, that's some reasoning behind my position. I understand your opinion as well, I think it's tomato-tomahto.

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Carlita said:

Thank you. I think I understand where you come from. I think. I have soft spots for Christianity (for Christ); but, I never agreed with Christians saying He is God.. so that kind of pulled me away from being part of His Body. I'll always see Him as a guide to the Father; but, if I had a choice as who to worship (which I hate that word actually) it would be the Father. Someone told me once my opinions were similar to Muslim. Which I thought was odd, since I know nothing about the Muslim faith. /shrugs/

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Lol I don't think believing that makes you a muslim. Quite common, really, afaik.

Yes said:

Read what Jesus says about himself in Revelation 1:18.

I am the Living One; I was dead, and now look, I am alive for ever and ever! And I hold the keys of death and Hades.

ING - First - Rev is a future vision, Jesus didn't say anything. Second - they have Jesus here claiming to be the awaited Messiah, - whom would indeed hold the keys to Sheol, as he was supposed to bring about the end, and the Final Judgment of those waiting in Sheol.

*

In Revelation 1:8, “I am the Alpha and the Omega,” says the Lord God, “who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.”

That is Jesus speaking of himself.

Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End. Read this scripture.

ING - Doesn't say Alpha - Omega, and it says GOD - because it is GOD, - not Jesus talking.

The Expositor's Greek Testament - "Rev_1:8. Only here and in Rev_21:5 f. is God introduced as the speaker, in the Apocalypse. The advent of the Christ, which marks the end of the age, is brought about by God, who overrules (παντοκράτωρ always of God in Apocalypse, otherwise the first part of the title might have suggested Christ) even the anomalies and contradictions of history for this providential climax. By the opening of the second century πατὴρπαντοκράτωρ had become the first title of God in the Roman creed;

"Jamieson, Fausset, and Brown Commentary "the beginning and the ending — not found in the oldest manuscripts, though found in Vulgate and Coptic. Transcribers probably inserted the clause from Rev_21:6."

*

Revelation 1:17 When I saw him, I fell at his feet as though dead. Then he placed his right hand on me and said: "Do not be afraid. I am the First and the Last.

That is also, what God says about Himself in the Old Testament.

ING - God IS First and Last. Jesus is only the first of a kind - Messiah - firstborn from the dead. And last (of his kind) as in the Messiah is supposed to bring about the end and FINAL JUDGMENT.

*

Isaiah 44:6 "This is what the LORD says--Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty: I am the first and I am the last; apart from me there is no God.

ING - Again WRONG! No Jesus - NO Lord, - YHVH!

Isa 44:6 So says YHVH, the King of Israel, and His (Israel's) Redeemer, YHVH of Hosts: I am the First, and I am the Last; and there is no Elohiym except Me.

*

Isaiah 48:12 "Listen to me, O Jacob, Israel, whom I have called: I am he; I am the first and I am the last.

ING - Indeed - as this is YHVH, not Jesus!

*

Read Revelations 22:13. Jesus is God.

12 “Behold, I am coming soon! My reward is with me, and I will give to everyone according to what he has done. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.

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Expand his text...

No he isn't, when you read these texts properly.


Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (The Messiah brings the END and FINAL JUDGMENT)

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, (TELOS termination/result) the first and the last.

(Jesus is the first of a KIND - The awaited Messiah - who bring all to an END - as he Judges the Dead in Sheol.)

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. (The awaited Messiah, not God)

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Jesus is obviously LORD here - NOT God.

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Ingledsva said:

Expand his text...

No he isn't, when you read these texts properly.


Rev 22:9 Then saith he unto me, See thou do it not: for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.

Rev 22:10 And he saith unto me, Seal not the sayings of the prophecy of this book: for the time is at hand.
Rev 22:11 He that is unjust, let him be unjust still: and he which is filthy, let him be filthy still: and he that is righteous, let him be righteous still: and he that is holy, let him be holy still.

Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be. (The Messiah brings the END and FINAL JUDGMENT)

Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, (TELOS termination/result) the first and the last.

(Jesus is the first of a KIND - The awaited Messiah - who bring all to an END - as he Judges the Dead in Sheol.)

Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.

Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star. (The awaited Messiah, not God)

Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

Jesus is obviously LORD here - NOT God.

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Click to expand...

All you did was deny the truth.

Yes said:

All you did was deny the truth.

Click to expand...

LOL! What a bunch of BULL!

I PROVIDED THE TEXTS, and SHOWED that YOU are WRONG!

Like trying to turn YHVH God - into Lord Jesus.

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Ingledsva said:

LOL! What a bunch of BULL!

I PROVIDED THE TEXTS, and SHOWED that YOU are WRONG!

Like trying to turn YHVH God - into Lord Jesus.

*

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Jesus is the Word of God. Was God's Word speaking in the Old Testament? Think about it.