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Do christians go straight to heaven upon their deaths?

Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
sincerly said:
sincerly said: ↑
"Yes", I did a phrase search for "the spirit of" and found 118 exact wordings for that phrase. Thirty seven had to do with "the spirit of GOD" and "the spirit of the Lord".
Then there were such things as "the spirit of:wisdom", "truth", "jealousy", "understanding", "bondage", "adoption", "grace," "holiness," "meekness", "a man" (Prov.18:14, "The spirit of a man will sustain his infirmity; but a wounded spirit who can bear?"---
Prov.20:27, "The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly."---
Eccl.3:19-21, "For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.
All go unto one place; all are of the dust, and all turn to dust again.
Who knoweth the spirit of man that goeth upward, and the spirit of the beast that goeth downward to the earth"---
Zech.12:1-2, "The burden of the word of the LORD for Israel, saith the LORD, which stretcheth forth the heavens, and layeth the foundation of the earth, and formeth the spirit of man within him.
Behold, I will make Jerusalem a cup of trembling unto all the people round about, when they shall be in the siege both against Judah and against Jerusalem."---
ICor. 2:9-12, "
But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God."---

There is NO Living entity within a person that is distinct from the person as a living being. That is an erroneous Scriptural assessment.

Here is the Biblical usage as seen. """the spirit, i.e. the vital principal by which the body is animated.______the rational spirit, the power by which the human being feels, thinks, decides."""
Click to expand...



"Yes", You didn't recognize those phrases from the KJV Bible? It is clear that you have taken your ideas of the "spirit of man" from other than the Biblical Scriptures.



That "us" has to be born again, because what is "us" is despicable and desperately wicked. What is "us" can not be accepted into heaven/and the new earth without that Repenting and submitting to the Will of GOD.
That old man of sin has to be crucified and buried with Jesus Christ.



That "spirit" which motivates one into a right relationship with GOD and one's fellow man is LOVE.
Click to expand...
These scriptures speak of our having a spirit.
Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1, and Malachi 2:15.


Zechariah 12:1 shows us that the spirit has a form.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
You have a doctrine of death.
The scriptures tell us that we have a spirit that lives on after the death of our bodies.
Click to expand...
No it doesnt. The serpent told Adam and Eve that God was wrong about death and if they would eat of the fruit they would be like the angels and live forever. Your like the serpent. Your saying that God is wrong. Your saying that when your dead, you are not dead. Bible tells us that we are dead in the grave until the resurrection. Those verses tell us that too.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
These scriptures speak of our having a spirit.
Hebrews 12:9, Zechariah 12:1, and Malachi 2:15.


Zechariah 12:1 shows us that the spirit has a form.
Click to expand...
Your talking "spirit" out of context. Your giving man something that God did not give him. Spirit in Hebrew is breath, it can also be rendered "life". Read the context of the whole chapter. When Christ comes back, "the dead in the graves shall hear him." Shoudlnt that be in heaven? No, that's because our rewards and promises are not in heaven, they are on the earth. Are we judged at death then? No, Christ says that he will judge at his return. Did the people in the bible get their rewards and promises yet? No, bible tells us that they didnt.

John says that no one has ever gone to heave. Jesus says three times in John that when he goes to heaven, no one will ever go there. Our rewards will be on earth. Jesus tells us that he was physically coming back to earth. Staying there and setting up a worldwide kingdom. If you go to heaven and Jesus and the angels are going to come back to stay, well, staying in heaven really doesnt make sense.
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
No it doesnt. The serpent told Adam and Eve that God was wrong about death and if they would eat of the fruit they would be like the angels and live forever.
Click to expand...
We die physically. Our spirits do not die. If our spirit could die, then man could kill our spirit, but man cannot.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

There is a reason you do not understand that which is spiritual. You do not even believe humans have spirits.

moorea944 said:
Your like the serpent. Your saying that God is wrong. Your saying that when your dead, you are not dead. Bible tells us that we are dead in the grave until the resurrection. Those verses tell us that too.
Click to expand...
You are like the serpent.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.
moorea944 said:
No it doesnt. The serpent told Adam and Eve that God was wrong about death and if they would eat of the fruit they would be like the angels and live forever. Your like the serpent. Your saying that God is wrong. Your saying that when your dead, you are not dead. Bible tells us that we are dead in the grave until the resurrection. Those verses tell us that too.
Click to expand...

You are exactly like the serpent. Be careful how you judge others, it might be the very thing that you are.


Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

John 6…48"I am the bread of life. 49"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50"This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.…
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
Your talking "spirit" out of context. Your giving man something that God did not give him. Spirit in Hebrew is breath, it can also be rendered "life". Read the context of the whole chapter. When Christ comes back, "the dead in the graves shall hear him." Shoudlnt that be in heaven? No, that's because our rewards and promises are not in heaven, they are on the earth. Are we judged at death then? No, Christ says that he will judge at his return. Did the people in the bible get their rewards and promises yet? No, bible tells us that they didnt.

John says that no one has ever gone to heave. Jesus says three times in John that when he goes to heaven, no one will ever go there. Our rewards will be on earth. Jesus tells us that he was physically coming back to earth. Staying there and setting up a worldwide kingdom. If you go to heaven and Jesus and the angels are going to come back to stay, well, staying in heaven really doesnt make sense.
Click to expand...
You have no understanding about God's Truth.

No one has ever gone to heaven IN THEIR PHYSICAL BODY, except Jesus.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
We die physically. Our spirits do not die. If our spirit could die, then man could kill our spirit, but man cannot.

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell.

There is a reason you do not understand that which is spiritual. You do not even believe humans have spirits.


You are like the serpent.

Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.


You are exactly like the serpent. Be careful how you judge others, it might be the very thing that you are.


Unless we eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, we have no life in us. Jesus tells us the truth, if anyone obeys his word, he will never see death, John 8:51.

John 6…48"I am the bread of life. 49"Your fathers ate the manna in the wilderness, and they died. 50"This is the bread which comes down out of heaven, so that one may eat of it and not die.…
Click to expand...

He's talking about everlasting life when we are made immortal, not now at death. God says that we die because we sin. You dont.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
You have no understanding about God's Truth.

No one has ever gone to heaven IN THEIR PHYSICAL BODY, except Jesus.
Click to expand...
No, you say that. You give man a "soul". Scripture tells us that man "became" a living soul. Life doesnt not go on after death. Why would Paul say that we have hope in the resurrection?

Are you saying that we get our rewards and promises at death then? Doesnt Hebrews 11 tell us that no one received their promise? All in the graves shall hear his voice! Acts 2, Peter is even telling everyone that there is nothing in death. He even gave an example of David. Wonderful chapter. Alot of wonderful bible first principles there.
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
No, you say that. You give man a "soul".
Click to expand...
I don't give a man a soul, God does.

A soul is a body made alive by having a spirit in it.

After the body dies, our spirits live on in consciousness.

moorea944 said:
Scripture tells us that man "became" a living soul. Life doesnt not go on after death. Why would Paul say that we have hope in the resurrection?
Click to expand...
Why shouldn't we want our bodies redeemed?

moorea944 said:
Are you saying that we get our rewards and promises at death then? Doesnt Hebrews 11 tell us that no one received their promise?
Click to expand...
The promise was about being made perfect by the blood of Jesus.

They did get their promise, after Jesus died on the cross.

Please, listen carefully.

Read what is said in Hebrews 12:23:

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,


See in Hebrews 12:23, Paul speaks about faith in Jesus making the spirits of righteous men perfect, the righteous men and prophets of the Old Testament. Faith in Jesus makes these spirits perfect. If our spirits cease to exist, or are conscious of nothing, then how can spirits be made perfect by their faith in Jesus Christ. Also note where this scripture says the spirits of the righteous men made perfect are...in heaven.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
I don't give a man a soul, God does.

A soul is a body made alive by having a spirit in it.

After the body dies, our spirits live on in consciousness.


Why shouldn't we want our bodies redeemed?


The promise was about being made perfect by the blood of Jesus.

They did get their promise, after Jesus died on the cross.

Please, listen carefully.

Read what is said in Hebrews 12:23:

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,



See in Hebrews 12:23, Paul speaks about faith in Jesus making the spirits of righteous men perfect, the righteous men and prophets of the Old Testament. Faith in Jesus makes these spirits perfect. If our spirits cease to exist, or are conscious of nothing, then how can spirits be made perfect by their faith in Jesus Christ. Also note where this scripture says the spirits of the righteous men made perfect are...in heaven.
Click to expand...

Again, your taking words out of context. In Genesis, does God give us a soul or spirit? No, He doesnt. No where in scripture does it tell us that we are given that. No where!

Spirit - ruach - A hebrew word meaning "breath". It can also be rendered as life, mind, thoughts or spirit in a way as breathing, breath of the living, or emotions.

The bible says that we cannot praise God in death. You do.
We know nothing at death. You say we do. etc, etc, see the difference????

Your already going into the bible as God gave us something else at creation or birth.

[The promise was about being made perfect by the blood of Jesus.]
Yes and no. Yes, but not until he returns. No as to there were other promises made too. Exp to Abraham which are are in through baptism. (Gal 3)

[They did get their promise, after Jesus died on the cross.]
What??? Actually, they didnt. Scripture tells us that. Hebrews 11. They didnt get their promises. It's also talking about when Christ comes back to raise the dead. The risen dead and us who are alive will then recieve our promises. But not until then. ( Verses 39&40)

"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," It's talking about us, the firstborn or first fruits. JeWhich are written in heaven. Of course, our names are written in the book of Life. And to the "lives" of men made "complete". Not perfect. Only Jesus was made perfect. That is just a bad redering. Our lives are made "complete" through baptism and knowing the Word of God!! Yes, and what Christ did to on the cross. His death and resurrection. He is the fruitfruits of the resurrection. Absolutely!!!! It's not talking about heaven going or something extra at birth at all. You have to read the whole chapter or book sometimes to understand it.
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
Again, your taking words out of context. In Genesis, does God give us a soul or spirit? No, He doesnt. No where in scripture does it tell us that we are given that. No where!
Click to expand...
Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
moorea944 said:
Spirit - ruach - A hebrew word meaning "breath". It can also be rendered as life, mind, thoughts or spirit in a way as breathing, breath of the living, or emotions.
Click to expand...
God’s BREATH gives us a spirit.
Our breath gives us oxygen.
moorea944 said:
The bible says that we cannot praise God in death. You do.
We know nothing at death. You say we do. etc, etc, see the difference????
Click to expand...
The Old Testament is about earthy man.
The New Testament is about the Spiritual.
moorea944 said:
Your already going into the bible as God gave us something else at creation or birth.

[The promise was about being made perfect by the blood of Jesus.]
Yes and no. Yes, but not until he returns. No as to there were other promises made too. Exp to Abraham which are are in through baptism. (Gal 3)

[They did get their promise, after Jesus died on the cross.]
What??? Actually, they didnt. Scripture tells us that. Hebrews 11. They didnt get their promises. It's also talking about when Christ comes back to raise the dead. The risen dead and us who are alive will then recieve our promises. But not until then. ( Verses 39&40)
Click to expand...
They got their promise WHEN JESUS CAME.
moorea944 said:
"To the general assembly and church of the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made perfect," It's talking about us, the firstborn or first fruits. JeWhich are written in heaven. Of course, our names are written in the book of Life. And to the "lives" of men made "complete". Not perfect. Only Jesus was made perfect. That is just a bad redering. Our lives are made "complete" through baptism and knowing the Word of God!! Yes, and what Christ did to on the cross. His death and resurrection. He is the fruitfruits of the resurrection. Absolutely!!!! It's not talking about heaven going or something extra at birth at all. You have to read the whole chapter or book sometimes to understand it.
Click to expand...
Stop denying God’s Truth. Resign yourself to not knowing anything until you have God’s Truth.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
[They got their promise WHEN JESUS CAME.]
I just showed you verses that they didnt... Hebrews 11 tells us that no one will receive the promises until he returns.

[Genesis 2:7 Then the LORD God formed a man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.]
Now you got it!!!! Good job!

[God’s BREATH gives us a spirit.]
What??? Ahhh, I knew it was too good to be true.... lol God's breath, makes and keeps us alive....... God breathed into man. And then he "became" a living soul (Nephesh)

[The Old Testament is about earthy man.
The New Testament is about the Spiritual.]
What??? We are all the same being. Are you saying that Abraham or Moses wasnt a spiritual person? What about Job? They were righteous in God's eyes. What about the prophets?
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
I just showed you verses that they didnt... Hebrews 11 tells us that no one will receive the promises until he returns.
Click to expand...
The Bible does not say that.

The Bible CLEARLY SAYS that when we come to GOD through JESUS, we come to heaven, where the SPIRITS are of those who are righteous. They have been made perfect, by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,

moorea944 said:
Now you got it!!!! Good job!

What??? Ahhh, I knew it was too good to be true.... lol God's breath, makes and keeps us alive....... God breathed into man. And then he "became" a living soul (Nephesh)
Click to expand...
God's breath gave us a spirit. Our breath gives us oxygen.
moorea944 said:
[The Old Testament is about earthy man.
The New Testament is about the Spiritual.]
What??? We are all the same being. Are you saying that Abraham or Moses wasnt a spiritual person? What about Job? They were righteous in God's eyes. What about the prophets?
Click to expand...
The righteous of the Old Testament times...they were made PERFECT by what Jesus did. They did not receive what was promised, they waited. They received it when Jesus came to earth.

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
The Bible does not say that.

The Bible CLEARLY SAYS that when we come to GOD through JESUS, we come to heaven, where the SPIRITS are of those who are righteous. They have been made perfect, by the blood of Christ.

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect,


God's breath gave us a spirit. Our breath gives us oxygen.

The righteous of the Old Testament times...they were made PERFECT by what Jesus did. They did not receive what was promised, they waited. They received it when Jesus came to earth.

Hebrews 12:23
to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the judge of all men, to the spirits of righteous men made perfect
Click to expand...

[The righteous of the Old Testament times...they were made PERFECT by what Jesus did. They did not receive what was promised, they waited. They received it when Jesus came to earth.]
No, again your not reading the verses correctly and what I've been showing you. I'll say it again. No one is made perfect. No one. Only Jesus. Hebrews 12v23 has the word "perfect" at the end. That is a wrong and bad translation. It should be complete. NOT perfect. And I even showed you verses that tell us that no one recieved their promise. What bible are you reading?

39 "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Hebrews 11 is talking about the risen dead with the remaining people who are alive. And your saying that everyone got their promises and rewards when Jesus was here? Is this something that you really want to believe in? Is this what your told in your church? I hope not.

Rev 12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
[The righteous of the Old Testament times...they were made PERFECT by what Jesus did. They did not receive what was promised, they waited. They received it when Jesus came to earth.]
No, again your not reading the verses correctly and what I've been showing you. I'll say it again. No one is made perfect. No one. Only Jesus. Hebrews 12v23 has the word "perfect" at the end. That is a wrong and bad translation. It should be complete. NOT perfect. And I even showed you verses that tell us that no one recieved their promise. What bible are you reading?

39 "And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise:
40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect."

Hebrews 11 is talking about the risen dead with the remaining people who are alive. And your saying that everyone got their promises and rewards when Jesus was here? Is this something that you really want to believe in? Is this what your told in your church? I hope not.

Rev 12 "And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be."
Click to expand...
All these scriptures show that we are made PERFECT, and holy by Jesus‘ blood, and we have to obey to keep being made holy.

Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
All these scriptures show that we are made PERFECT, and holy by Jesus‘ blood, and we have to obey to keep being made holy.

Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
Click to expand...
What do you know. Yeshua's words don't jive with Paul's words again…weird.
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
Simplelogic said:
What do you know. Yeshua's words don't jive with Paul's words again…weird.
Click to expand...

Jesus' words: Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Paul's words:
1 Thessalonians 4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.

Ephesians 5:1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.

2 Corinthians 13:9 We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Colossians 1:28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
Jesus' words: Matthew 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Paul's words:
1 Thessalonians 4:1 Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more.

Ephesians 5:1 Be imitators of God, therefore, as dearly loved children

2 Corinthians 13:11 Finally, brothers, good-by. Aim for perfection, listen to my appeal, be of one mind, live in peace. And the God of love and peace will be with you.

2 Corinthians 13:9 We are glad whenever we are weak but you are strong; and our prayer is for your perfection.

2 Corinthians 7:1 Since we have these promises, dear friends, let us purify ourselves from everything that contaminates body and spirit, perfecting holiness out of reverence for God.

Colossians 1:28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.
Click to expand...
Yeshua said we are to be holy or kadosh, just as YHVH is holy. This does not mean perfect in the way you are using it. It means set apart.
 
moorea944

moorea944

Well-Known Member
Yes said:
All these scriptures show that we are made PERFECT, and holy by Jesus‘ blood, and we have to obey to keep being made holy.

Hebrews 10:10 and by that will, we have been made holy through the sacrifice of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Hebrews 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

Hebrews 11:40 since God had planned something better for us so that only together with us would they be made perfect.

Hebrews 12:13 And so Jesus also suffered outside the city gate to make the people holy through his own blood.

Hebrews 12:23 to the church of the firstborn, whose names are written in heaven. You have come to God, the Judge of all, to the spirits of the righteous made perfect,

Hebrews 2:11 Both the one who makes people holy and those who are made holy are of the same family. So Jesus is not ashamed to call them brothers and sisters.

Ephesians 5:26 to make her holy, cleansing her by the washing with water through the word,
Click to expand...

Did you actually read the verses that you put up on your posts? Those were the ones that I put on. lol
First of all Holy and Perfect are not the same.
Second, we are not perfect! I've already explained Hebrew 12 to you. It is a bad redering complared to the Greek.
Hebrews 10v14 is talking about Jesus, not us.
Hebrews 12v13 Yes, we are Holy unto God. I agree with you.
Hebrews 12v23. Should be complete. We are not perfect.
Hebrews 11v40 (that was my verse) Paul is talking about when Christ comes back to earth to raise the dead. The risen dead with the living will then be made "perfect" together. READ. Just dont look at one word and put your beliefs into it!!
Eph 5v28. Yes, I agree. I like that verse. Nice, isnt it....

We are not now perfect. Only Jesus was. Scripture tells us (in the verses you just posted) that we will be made perfect at his return. IT's almost like your trying to fit your beliefs "into" the bible. You shouldnt do that. Let the bible speak for you.
 
Yes

Yes

Oh how I love the Word of God!
moorea944 said:
Did you actually read the verses that you put up on your posts? Those were the ones that I put on. lol
First of all Holy and Perfect are not the same.
Second, we are not perfect! I've already explained Hebrew 12 to you. It is a bad redering complared to the Greek.
Hebrews 10v14 is talking about Jesus, not us.
Hebrews 12v13 Yes, we are Holy unto God. I agree with you.
Hebrews 12v23. Should be complete. We are not perfect.
Hebrews 11v40 (that was my verse) Paul is talking about when Christ comes back to earth to raise the dead. The risen dead with the living will then be made "perfect" together. READ. Just dont look at one word and put your beliefs into it!!
Eph 5v28. Yes, I agree. I like that verse. Nice, isnt it....

We are not now perfect. Only Jesus was. Scripture tells us (in the verses you just posted) that we will be made perfect at his return. IT's almost like your trying to fit your beliefs "into" the bible. You shouldnt do that. Let the bible speak for you.
Click to expand...
I have scriptures that say we are holy and perfect by the blood of Jesus. Just believe it.
 
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