Is Jesus Truly the Messiah of Israel?

Is he truly? Does Isaiah 7 really refer to a virgin birth, or a birth from a young woman that took place in King Ahaz's time? Does Isaiah 9 really fortell the birth of Jesus, or describe King Hezekiah who has already been born? Your thoughts?

Jesus is the Truth Messiah from our God and God sent him for the Children of Israel!!

In Islam every Muslim believe that Jesus is the only messiah so we dont wanna see any proof...

But i can answer your question!!

My response about Isaiah 7:14:

isaiah 7:14 says, prophesying of.."The coming a person who will born to virgin- his name will be Emmanuel"

isaiah 7:14 never mentioned about virgin born!

the Hebrew word there is "Alma" which means not "a virgin" always Alma mentioned "a young lady" the word for virgin in Hebrew is "Baitula" which is not there

The correct translation is in Revised standard version!

"Therefore the Lord himself will give a sign. Look, THE YOUNG WOMEN is with child and shall bear a son, and shall name him Immanuel"[Isaiah 7:14, from Rsv]

Its not an virgin but a young women AND it says he shall be called as Immanuel: no where in the Bible is Jesus Christ called as Immanuel

Immanuel meaning "God is with us" but Bible says God was not with Jesus!

"My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me"[matthew 27:46]

here we see God forsaken Jesus, meaning God was not with Jesus!!!

My Response about Isaiah 9:6:

"For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders, and he will called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of peace"[Isaiah, 9:6]

I dont know this Prophecy really mentioned to Jesus christ or Not but I can give you answer about this Prophecy!

Prophecy mentioned he will called as "Mighty God"

so I am sure it mentioned about a great Prophet

Now few christian can tell this "Mighty God" meaning Jesus is God!!!

Lets see about it:

There actually "Mighty God" is mentioned as a title.

Its very clear in Bible that "Mighty God" is mentioned as a title, ITS NEVER MENTIONED ABOUT REAL ALMIGHTY GOD!

"I have said, ye are gods: and all of you are the children of the most high"[pslam 82:6]


note: The trinitarian liars who translated the Bible into English play dirty tricks about capitalizing and lowering the "g" in "God" to prove their trinity lie, while they fully know that it is THE SAME WORD USED FOR ALL!

And in the old testament, the Lord said unto Moses:

"See, i have made thee 'a god' to pharoah"[Exodus 7:1]


see God almighty also gave God title to Moses but Its not mean Moses is God almighty Himself!!

God title is never mean he Is God almighty himself!

Example: Prophet Elijah


Do you know what the meaning of Elijah?

In hebrew Eli is "My God" and Jah mentioned as "Jahovah" so Meaning of Elijah is "My God Jahovah"

lets see a point: when we tell "Elijah was a great Prophet"

its actually we tell "My God Jahovah was a great Prophet"

so do you think Elijah was the Jahovah himself???


No!!


ITS NO MORE THAN A TITLE what given by OUR Almighty GOD!


Its never mean He is Almighty God or God himself!

Hope you all undertand!!

Isaiah 9:6 is clearly about Hezekiah. Mighty god "el gibbor" is a title given to Jewish heroes and great men. It says- a child has been born to us, a son has been given. There's nothing future tense about it.

Senedjem said:

Is he truly? Does Isaiah 7 really refer to a virgin birth, or a birth from a young woman that took place in King Ahaz's time? Does Isaiah 9 really fortell the birth of Jesus, or describe King Hezekiah who has already been born? Your thoughts?

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I think we actually agree on this point. Jesus was not the Jewish messiah.

Now, I would not deny that some Jews at the time thought he was the Messiah, and after he died, rationalized the idea and created a way for him to still be the Messiah by having him never actually truly die, but was instead resurrected, and will later on fulfill the rest of the prophecies. I would not subscribe to that idea, but I can see how it would originate.

But Jesus simply failed. He died without fulfilling what the Messiah was suppose to fulfill. He was just one more failed messiah during that time period. In no way can he logically be called the Jewish messiah.

On a side note, I actually had a conversation with my grandmother in law this Easter about Jesus being the Messiah and she was complaining about how Jews didn't accept it. I told her that they don't accept it as he never fulfilled what the Messiah was suppose to be.

As for Isaiah 7, it referred simply to a young woman. The mistranslation is actually quite logical though. Going from the Hebrew to Greek (the Septuagint), it was an honest mistake. When the writers of Luke and Matthew went and searched through the scriptures for so called prophecies, they honestly believed that the messiah was meant to be born of a virgin as that is what they believed the scripture said, and that is what they read. However, they were not able to read the Hebrew, and that is where the problem came. More so, the prophecy had already been fulfilled, and was probably fulfilled before it was ever written down. In other words, it was a prophecy written after the fact.

I would say the same thing with Isaiah 9. It was written after the fact, and was meant to refer to something that had already occurred. It was a common practice during that time.

Jesus was not the messiah. He did none of the things the messiah is supposed to do. Not only did he fail to do them all, he didn't even get as far in the endeavor as Bar Kokhba did, and Bar Kokhba wasn't the messiah either.

shine of son: What you posted made sense to me.
Perhaps I need look more at islam?

Jesus was not the messiah. He did none of the things the messiah is supposed to do. Not only did he fail to do them all, he didn't even get as far in the endeavor as Bar Kokhba did, and Bar Kokhba wasn't the messiah either.

Please. I'm not challenging what you say I simply need to know.
What "things" did Jesus not do that a promised messiah was supposed to do.
If Jews are still waiting for the messiah it's been one heck of a loooooooong wait.

jeager106 said:

Please. I'm not challenging what you say I simply need to know.

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jeager106 said:

What "things" did Jesus not do that a promised messiah was supposed to do.

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I'll just name one thing which is already enough: World peace.

jeager106 said:

If Jews are still waiting for the messiah it's been one heck of a loooooooong wait.

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Contrary to Christianity where the "Messiah" simply never returned even though he should have pretty soon.

Rainbow Mage said:

Does Isaiah 7 really refer to a virgin birth, ...

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Yet again, no.

Levite said:

Jesus was not the messiah. He did none of the things the messiah is supposed to do. Not only did he fail to do them all, he didn't even get as far in the endeavor as Bar Kokhba did, and Bar Kokhba wasn't the messiah either.

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Jesus's lineage comes to mind as well in view of the immaculate conception, by which in turn would not qualify Jesus as messiah as one needs to be of the blood line of King David through Joseph if Im correct.

If one believes The Messiah is spoken of in Zechariah 14, then Christ is that Messiah -or, technically -will be.

It is correct to say that Christ did not fulfill certain prophecies while on earth -even that he has not yet -technically and literally -been the Messiah -as he has not yet literally delivered and rewarded any. Some have been saved technically -have fought the good fight, died and will be rewarded -but have not yet known that literal salvation. Christ is the Messiah -but he's not finished being the Messiah.
What he did on earth as a man necessarily preceded what he will soon do in power and glory.

Many Christians believe the return of Christ will be all harps and halos -and some believe they will be taken to heaven and that's the end of the matter -but the return of Christ will be a worldwide regime change preceded by the greatest time of trouble the world has ever known -first by man warring with man -then by God dealing with man.

The New Testament says the ten kings with the beast will war with the Lamb, and the Lamb will overcome them.

This is what is described in Zechariah 14 (also see Joel 2 -which describes God's army/camp.)

It is also described in the last part of Nebuchadnezzar's dream.

The new testament also says he will destroy them that destroy the earth.

Israel -as a human nation -will play a unique role in the government of the world after the Messiah begins to reign -being first in tribulation and then in glory, honor and peace -but he is Messiah to all, and "spiritual Israel" will be made up of people of all nations -not only Israel (those of Israel who have died will eventually be raised and appropriately honored/blessed as God sees fit) -and will be the immortal government under God on earth (and beyond). They will be those of the first resurrection.

Rainbow Mage said:

Isaiah 9:6 is clearly about Hezekiah. Mighty god "el gibbor" is a title given to Jewish heroes and great men. It says- a child has been born to us, a son has been given. There's nothing future tense about it.

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As God declared the end from the beginning, I don't see that the tense means what you believe it does.

Could you explain how of the increase of Hezekiah's government there will be no end?

That's an awful lot of titles and importance spoken of -why is he the focus of all of that and not others?

I agree that the subject matter preceding the part about the child being born seems to indicate the subject matter is things of those days -but abrupt changes in subject matter (and also duality of subject matter) are not uncommon in prophecy.

Prophecies also often cover a great amount of time.

For example... In the next chapter of Isaiah is a prophecy (a continuation of the same prophecy) of the Assyrian lifting up his staff and smiting those who dwell in Zion in times yet future -but that the end of the matter will be the destruction of the Assyrian....

Further proof that it is yet future is that the Assyrian has not yet been broken in God's land.......

God's Purpose against Assyria
Isaiah 14:24The LORD of hosts has sworn saying, "Surely, just as I have intended so it has happened, and just as I have planned so it will stand, 25to break Assyria in My land, and I will trample him on My mountains. Then his yoke will be removed from them and his burden removed from their shoulder.26"This is the plan devised against the whole earth; and this is the hand that is stretched out against all the nations.…

(This makes more sense when one realizes that the "Assyrian" left Nineveh for Haran -then continued NW to what is now Germany then known as the Chatti [described in Ezekiel 17] and are the same that troubled Jews in WWII -then referring to themselves as Aryan. It should also be noted that the prophecies are about "the Assyrian" -not Assyria -not a specific place, but a people.)

(It is said "Never again!" -but there will be one more attempt at a final solution. However, Judah will fare better than the house of Israel -who will experience similar to that of [primarily] Judah in WWII -unless they repent)

....this is the same event described in Daniel 8 and 11

And through his policie also hee shall cause craft to prosper in his hand, and hee shall magnifie himselfe in his heart, and by peace shal destroy many: he shall also stand vp against the prince of princes, but he shalbe broken without hand.

King James Version
And he shall plant the tabernacles of his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain; yet he shall come to his end, and none shall help him.

...and much of Daniel is definitely about the end times
…8As for me, I heard but could not understand; so I said, "My lord, what will be the outcome of these events?" 9He said, "Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.10"Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.…

Etritonakin said:

-but abrupt changes in subject matter (and also duality of subject matter) are not uncommon in prophecy.

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… or in shoe-horning Christian 'prophecy' into the text.

jeager106 said:

Please. I'm not challenging what you say I simply need to know.

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He has not posted in years, why are you necromancing this thread?

jeager106 said:

Jesus was not the messiah.

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That all depends on who you ask now does it not?

outhouse said:

He has not posted in years, why are you necromancing this thread?

OPh, for the love of Pete I didn't look at the date of his post.
Sorry, duh!



That all depends on who you ask now does it not?

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Did I post He was not the Messiah? I misspoke.
I'm on way too many threads and getting only more confused.
Sorry 'bout that.

Jayhawker Soule said:

… or in shoe-horning Christian 'prophecy' into the text.

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lol -what is important is what comes to pass. We can each believe we are correct about this or that, but only what will happen will happen.
Meanwhile, we ought to prepare for whatever happens by seeking God's will.
What happens is not important if we are not a part of it.

Etritonakin said:

lol -what is important is what comes to pass.

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So unimportant is whether we respect the text or abuse it?

Rainbow Mage said:

Is he truly? Does Isaiah 7 really refer to a virgin birth, ........................... Your thoughts?

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Sadly, 'not truly'.
Virgin birth? Sadly, 'No'.
Oh...... and Yeshua was not a teacher, but a hand-worker with high-healing abilities.

Jayhawker Soule said:

So unimportant is whether we respect the text or abuse it?

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Why do you feel you are abusing the text?

Seriously, though... your view of the text is not the standard by which abuse of it is measured.

I am also curious what Judaism teaches about the Messiah being cut off, but not for himself (Daniel 9)...... Care to comment?

I have been thinkng recently about the relationship between what is called Christianity today -and Judaism. Much of mainstream Christianity today are of the 'those who bless Israel will be blessed' mentality -at least in the west -and don't consider the troubled past.

I do believe Christ is the "stone the builders rejected" -but also what is written soon after.... "The Lord has done this".

The involvement of Jews in the events leading to his crucifiction was turned against Jews and "judaizers" by what became known as the early "Christian" church -but that Church was not actually Christian -and also persecuted the true Christian church -who also kept the sabbath, etc., as Christ did and taught.
That animosity fueled and excused such things as the inquisitions, etc.... and is certainly not justified.

The breach between Judaism and Christianity is somewhat related to the breach between the tribes of Israel -and between the house of Judah and the house of Israel.

The breaches were prophesied -as was the healing thereof.
There is only one God -and one Messiah.
Judah retained its language, history and religion for the most part.
The "lost tribes" of the house of Israel lost their language and identity -and moved through a "Christian" world (-though much of that Christianity is false).

They are prophesied to be reunited literally in the holy land (Judah first, as has come to pass-then Israel later) -but also to become unified in belief by the Messiah's direct intervention in world events.

(Related scripture soon)

Etritonakin said:

Why do you feel you are abusing the text?

Seriously, though... your view of the text is not the standard by which abuse of it is measured.

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I'm sure you thought that clever. Sad ...

Messianic references:

The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)

Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance (Isaiah 2:4)

The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)

He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via King Solomon (1 Chron. 22:8–10)

The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)

Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)

Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)

He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)

All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)

Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)

There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)

All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)

The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)

He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)

Nations will recognize the wrongs they did Israel (Isaiah 52:13–53:5)

For My House (the Temple in Jerusalem) shall be called a house of prayer for all nations (Isaiah 56:3–7)

The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)

The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)

Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)

The Temple will be rebuilt (Ezekiel 40) resuming many of the suspended mitzvoth

He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)

Jews will know the Torah without Study (Jeremiah 31:33)

He will give you all the desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)

He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13–15, Ezekiel 36:29–30, Isaiah 11:6–9)