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Christians: Do you believe that Jesus is JHVH? If not, is He another God?

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
If Jesus is part of the trinity, and there is only one God, /ie a human isn't Deific, a god/, then isn't Jesus JHVH? If not, who is He? Another god? not a god? If not JHVH, et divine, isn't that polytheism? Why pray to Jesus if He isn't JHVH? Isn't that praying to another god?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
What Christians or anyone else for that matter believes and what is actually true can be two entirely different things. By the way Jesus never asked or condoned anyone praying to him but always preached to pray to the Father in Heaven. JHVH I assume.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
What Christians or anyone else for that matter believes and what is actually true can be two entirely different things. By the way Jesus never asked or condoned anyone praying to him but always preached to pray to the Father in Heaven. JHVH I assume.

What ^^^^ was said there.
Jesus said no one goes to the Father excpet thru Me. Not an exact quote.
Jesus could be called "god like" but He is not God.
I don't suscribe the the trinity theory. Jesus was a man, not devine, but had powers to heal according to Scripture.
Scripture says He sits at the right hand of God, ergo who could He sit on the right side of Himself if He is indeed God?
I don't pray to Jesus, I pray thru Jesus to God.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I like your sentiment, but I have no fantasy of God sitting in heaven with Jesus next to him, some statements are clearly symbolic, not to be misinterpreted literally!!
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I left Christianity because I was taught to pray; Dear Jesus. And my prayers were never answered. Years after when I discovered what I consider the true God, I found my prayers answered again and again, I really think the idea of considering Jesus a God worthy of worship is a big mistake, if Jesus comes to us from God, why not go straight to the source, not the messenger.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
What Christians or anyone else for that matter believes and what is actually true can be two entirely different things. By the way Jesus never asked or condoned anyone praying to him but always preached to pray to the Father in Heaven. JHVH I assume.

Jesus taught us to pray only to the Father. I recognize the Father's personal name to be Jehovah as it is used in the English language. Separate individuals. Both are "gods" in the sense of being "mighty ones." But only the Father is said to be "Almighty."

If Jesus is not the one we are directed to pray to, it would makes sense that those prayers directed to him may go "unheard."
 
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rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If Jesus is part of the trinity, and there is only one God, /ie a human isn't Deific, a god/, then isn't Jesus JHVH? If not, who is He? Another god? not a god? If not JHVH, et divine, isn't that polytheism? Why pray to Jesus if He isn't JHVH? Isn't that praying to another god?
IMO, Jesus is not part of a trinity. Nor is he almighty God. He said that he is God's Son. (John 10:36) Jesus never taught his followers to pray to him, but rather, to pray to his God, Jehovah. (Matthew 6:9-13, John 16:26-28) This does not minimize the importance of Jesus, since "there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) Our approach to God must be through his Son. (John 3:16-18)
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
IMO, Jesus is not part of a trinity. Nor is he almighty God. He said that he is God's Son. (John 10:36) Jesus never taught his followers to pray to him, but rather, to pray to his God, Jehovah. (Matthew 6:9-13, John 16:26-28) This does not minimize the importance of Jesus, since "there is no salvation in anyone else, for there is no other name under heaven that has been given among men by which we must get saved.” (Acts 4:12) Our approach to God must be through his Son. (John 3:16-18)
^^^^ this and what Kolibri stated sums it up from what I understand of Christain
scripture.
I was taught, later read in various places, that we pray thru, not to, Jesus. Prayers thru Jesus being directed to Jehovah.
Before I came to this board I thought there were a LOT of opinions on things Biblical.
How wrong I was.
There are more opinions, more interpretations, than anyone could count.
I recently got a new, New World Translation of the Bible to add to my many translations. I looked up the new, N.W.T. on the net and find that "experts" are already codemning the work, ergo I must believe there is some real accuracy there.
( in the new N.W.T. I mean)
:)
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
^^^^ this and what Kolibri stated sums it up from what I understand of Christain
scripture.
I was taught, later read in various places, that we pray thru, not to, Jesus. Prayers thru Jesus being directed to Jehovah.
Before I came to this board I thought there were a LOT of opinions on things Biblical.
How wrong I was.
There are more opinions, more interpretations, than anyone could count.
I recently got a new, New World Translation of the Bible to add to my many translations. I looked up the new, N.W.T. on the net and find that "experts" are already codemning the work, ergo I must believe there is some real accuracy there.
( in the new N.W.T. I mean)
:)

Do you expect Christendom's scholars not to pan it when it does not translate language in a biased fashion as they do?

Linguists have praised the NWT. If you have no religious prejudice to support, you translate as the Bible itself speaks...you don't try to squeeze meaning into words and phrases that are clearly not intended to say what many want them to imply. :rolleyes:
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
Do you expect Christendom's scholars not to pan it when it does not translate language in a biased fashion as they do?

Linguists have praised the NWT. If you have no religious prejudice to support, you translate as the Bible itself speaks...you don't try to squeeze meaning into words and phrases that are clearly not intended to say what many want them to imply. :rolleyes:

Can you explain what you mean by linguists?
Merrim Webster defines:
lin·guis·tics
noun plural but singular in construction\liŋ-ˈgwis-tiks\
: the study of language and of the way languages work
A linguist isn't a skilled translator of ancient language into modern languages.
I appreciate the study of language and the way languages work to make meaning.
I've also read good reviews of the NWT, have the lastest one that has a silver cover and Witnesses refer to it as "their Silver Sword".
I like the Witnesses I know, am involved in a Bible Study with a family near my home.
They have a 13 year old son who can answer about any biblical question.
He's knowledge is impressive for one so young. The lad has known no other
religion, his father, age 45, was born into the religion and has known no other.
Good folks there.
They are rock solid in the belief that only Witnesses preach the truth, all others are part of Chrstiandom, that teach false doctrine.
They discount the rapture completley, dismiss hell as a pagan belief and I think they are right about that.
My fiance's brother an attorney, has spent nearly 40 years researching various Christian denominations. He's a bright man and he conclude that "God's Chruch" will be raptured and spared the tribulation, that they will go to heaven to serve God, is sure there is a Dante's Inferno hell where "others" will go to suffer forever.
I din't know how such a bright, educated man, could believe that stuff.
Do you believe theologians would alter scripture to fit church donctrine?
I suspect so.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
I never heard the term "the Silver Sword." I like the term. The Bible is not called a club, but a sword of the spirit. It is a challenge to not be using it as a club sometimes though.

Altering Scripture - I am sure that sometimes it is done on purpose, but I suspect that much of the time it was done as an oversight.
Regardless, it is damaging to those that rely on the translation to express the original thought faithfully.
Anytime a rendering is adjusted there is a serious need to make sure that the adjustment is supported by something other than a desire for a particular paradigm.
 
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jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Didn't jesus supposedly pray to G-D? So he prayed to himself?
The Bible gives us some different ways to interpret things. Jesus is called god, and the creator, yet also He prays to the 'father'. The main issue here is that if the father incarnated as Jesus, via Mary, then Jesus actually is an aspect of God /JHVH.
Otherwise....
1.Jesus is some other deity.
2.Jesus is just a man.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
The Bible gives us some different ways to interpret things. Jesus is called god, and the creator, yet also He prays to the 'father'. The main issue here is that if the father incarnated as Jesus, via Mary, then Jesus actually is an aspect of God /JHVH.
Otherwise....
1.Jesus is some other deity.
2.Jesus is just a man.

We can break this down into 4 time periods.
1)What was Jesus before living on the earth?.
2)What was Jesus while living on the earth?
3)What was Jesus for the parts of 3 days after he stopped breathing?
4)What was Jesus when he started appearing to his disciples again?

Each answer is different.
 

JayJayDee

Avid JW Bible Student
Can you explain what you mean by linguists?
Merrim Webster defines:
lin·guis·tics
noun plural but singular in construction\liŋ-ˈgwis-tiks\
: the study of language and of the way languages work
A linguist isn't a skilled translator of ancient language into modern languages.

A translator must be a skilled linguist. Otherwise he could not appraise the original language in order to translate it into the speech pattern of another.

I appreciate the study of language and the way languages work to make meaning.
I do too. When you see how things are phrased in an Interlinear, it makes you appreciate that not all of us speak words in the same order. It takes skill to convey the meaning, rather than just the words.

I've also read good reviews of the NWT, have the lastest one that has a silver cover and Witnesses refer to it as "their Silver Sword".
I like the Witnesses I know, am involved in a Bible Study with a family near my home.
They have a 13 year old son who can answer about any biblical question.
He's knowledge is impressive for one so young. The lad has known no other
religion, his father, age 45, was born into the religion and has known no other.
Good folks there.
I haven't heard it called that either, but it sounds appropriate. ;)

I was raised in Christendom for the first 20 years of my life....totally disillusioned, I left the church to find the truth. All I knew was that the Bible was God's word and that that he existed. The church had failed to instill much more than that, apart from the Sunday School stories. There was so much hypocrisy and no explanations that made any sense to me.

When I first opened my door to the Witnesses, it was to tease them for their foolishness, not to learn from them, but when I asked questions, they had the answers. The more questions I asked, the more answers they had.....not stupid ones like I expected but they opened their Bible and let me read the answers for myself. I was impressed. These people were nothing like I had been led to believe. (John 15:19, 20)

They are rock solid in the belief that only Witnesses preach the truth, all others are part of Chrstiandom, that teach false doctrine.
Coming out of Christendom, I can vouch for that. When you examine their teachings in the light of the entirety of scripture, you realize just how far off the rails they really are.

They discount the rapture completley, dismiss hell as a pagan belief and I think they are right about that.
Neither of those are Bible teachings. Neither makes sense when you know the truth.

My fiance's brother an attorney, has spent nearly 40 years researching various Christian denominations. He's a bright man and he conclude that "God's Chruch" will be raptured and spared the tribulation, that they will go to heaven to serve God, is sure there is a Dante's Inferno hell where "others" will go to suffer forever.
I din't know how such a bright, educated man, could believe that stuff.
Do you believe theologians would alter scripture to fit church donctrine?
I suspect so.

I'll give you the example I just used on another thread.. John 1:1 in the KJV has been done to death as proof of the trinity. "The Word was God"....Yet in John 1:18, the KJV translates the word theos (god) as "son". If "theos" is translated "son" in verse 18, it should also be translated "son" in Verse 1. Where it would read "The Word was the Son".
Alter scripture to fit church doctrine? You bettcha! :confused:
 

Glaurung

Denizen of Niflheim
If Jesus is part of the trinity, and there is only one God, /ie a human isn't Deific, a god/, then isn't Jesus JHVH? If not, who is He? Another god? not a god? If not JHVH, et divine, isn't that polytheism? Why pray to Jesus if He isn't JHVH? Isn't that praying to another god?

Who-is-Jesus-300x270.png


All three persons of the Trinity are distinct and each are wholly God, yet they are but one being. How this state of existence functions is beyond human capacity to grasp or imagine. We can understand it on abstract definitional level, but we can never really comprehend it.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I think you should turn your triangle upside down Make God the whole top and middle of the triangle, Put Jesus at the bottom, and the holy spirit the arm inbetween.
 

Servant_of_the_One1

Well-Known Member
I left Christianity because I was taught to pray; Dear Jesus. And my prayers were never answered. Years after when I discovered what I consider the true God, I found my prayers answered again and again, I really think the idea of considering Jesus a God worthy of worship is a big mistake, if Jesus comes to us from God, why not go straight to the source, not the messenger.
Whats your religion now if i may ask?
 
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