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Was Jesus really Crucified?

Moshiur

Sunny
"And They say, none shall enter Paradise Unless he be a Jew or Christian' Those are their vain desires. Say: Produce your proof if ye are truthful." [Quran, 2:111]

Christians proof is Bible. So we have to look at bible for their claiming.

Now Let us read the bible:

***1. Psalms 91 DIRECTLY prophecied that Jesus will not be crucified:

For the Scripture say, "He will order His angels to protect and guard you." [luke 4:10]

"And they will hold you up with their hands so you wont even hurt your foot on a stone." [luke 4:11]

Jesus responded, "The scripture ALSO SAY, you must not test the lord ur God." [Luke 4:12]

How satan referred to psalm 91 regarding the protection of Jesus?

How Jesus confirmed that Psalm 91 chapter was indeed speaking about him by saying >>the scripture "ALSO" says.

Also the new testament, again, confirms that Psalm 91 is referring to Jesus christ.

Now let on look psalms 91:

"SURELY HE WILL SAVE YOU from the fowler's snare and from the deadly pestilence." [Psalm 91:3]

Meaning God will SAVE Jesus from the deadly pestilence(psalm 91:3)

"HE WILL COVER YOU with his feathers, and under his wings u will find refuge; his faithfulness will be ur shield and rampart." [Psalm 91:4]

Meaning GOD almighty will cover Jesus with His Protection. (psalm 91:4)

We know from the gospel that God sent His angel to strengthen him.

"An Angel from heaven appeared to Jesus and strengthened him." [luke 22:43]

Why God sent His angel to strengthen jesus? The only answer is God will protect Jesus and thats why.

Next prophecy says:

"YOU WILL NOT FEAR the terror of night, nor the arrow that files by day." [Psalm 91:5]

MEANING Christ will then not have any fear to him.

"YOU WILL ONLY OBSERVE WITH YOUR EYES AND SEE THE PUNISHMENT OF THE WICKED." [psalm 91:8]

Meaning Christ will then observe with his own eyes the punishment of the crucified ones. We know from the gospel that two thiefs were also crucified. Jesus observed that.

Next prophecy says:

"THEN NO HARM WILL BEFALL YOU, no disaster will come near ur tent." [Psalm 91:10]

"FOR GOD WILL COMMAND HIS ANGELS CONCERNING U TO GUARD U IN ALL UR WAYS." [Psalm 91:11]

"ANGELS WILL LIFT YOU UP IN THEIR HANDS, SO THAT U WILL NOT STRIKE UR FOOT AGAINST A STONE." [Psalm 91:12]

"because he lovers me," says the Lord, "I WILL RESCUE HIM; I WILL PROTECT HIM." [Psalm 91:14]

Meaning God Almighty will send down the Angels to protect Jesus and lift him. (psalm 91:11-12, 14) These verses is very clear that God will protect Jesus.

Also in the gospel, an angel said that Jesus was "Alive", the most important is that angel DIDNT says Jesus was resurrected which means Jesus didnt die.

"but didnt find Jesus body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was Alive." [Luke 24:23]

Now lets look on next prophecy:

"HE WILL CALL UPON ME, AND I WILL ANSWER HIM, I will be with him in trouble, I WILL DELIVER HIM AND HONOR HIM." [Psalm 91:15]

This means Christ's call will be HEARD, and he will be delivered And honored.

We know from the bible that Jesus prayed to God and God almighty "heard" his prayer. [HEBREWS 5:7]

God didnt hear what Jesus was saying? Obviously God hears everything. Here "heard" means God accepted Jesus prayer. On the other word, God saved Jesus from being crucified.

No way would these verses be valid if Christ got really crucified.
 
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Moshiur

Sunny
***2. In Matthew 12:38-40 Jesus himself prophecied that He will perform a miraculous sign like Jonah which means he will not die like Jonah.

Let us look on Matthew 12:38-40 and Jesus prophecy:

Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said, "Rabi(Teacher), we want to see a Miraculous Sign from you." [Matthew 12:38]

Here we see, Jews went on Jesus and requested him for showing a Miraculous Sign for them.

He answered, "A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a Miraculous Sign! But none will be given it(Miraculous Sign) except The Sign of Prophet Jonah." [Matthew 12:39]

"For Jonah was 3 days and 3 nights in the belly of the huge fish, so the Son of Man will be 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of Earth." [Matthew 12:40]

Here Jesus said that there will be no miraculous sign except the sign of Jonah. How Jonah 3 days and 3 nights lived in the belly of the fish, by the same way Jesus will live 3 days and 3 nights in the heart of the earth and this will be a miraculous sign.

So what was the sign of Prophet Jonah?

We already know that. If anyone dont know then read "Book of Jonah." This is a very small chapter of Bible.

A Belly of the Fish eat Jonah and 3 days and 3 nights he was alive. This was his miraculous sign.

A Belly of the Fish eat Jonah and 3 days and 3 nights he was Alive there and that was his miraculous sign. Right?

Was Jonah Alive in the belly of the Fish?

Answer is obviously Yes.

Was Jonah Still Alive after 3 days when he was vomited out of the Belly of the Fish?

Answer is obviously Yes.

After 3 days Jonah was resurrected from the Dead?

This time obviously No!!

Then Jesus was still Alive and never resurrected as he prophecied. Now when I ask this at christians they say Jesus was dead on the tomb.

If Jesus was dead then this prophecy was obviously wrong because being dead in the tomb can not be a miraculous sign like Jonah.

We muslims believe that Jesus was alive and he was not crucified. But here christians say he was resurrected from the death which means matthew 12:30-40 prophecy obviously false and that makes Jesus a false person of God.

The only answer is Jesus that prophecy was true and he didnt die. Only fool christians cannot understand this.

Now few christians can say there he meant about times. But its really a joke to say that because staying a dead body 3 days and 3 nights in the tomb never can be a miraculous sign. This idea even cannot make a sense!
 
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Moshiur

Sunny
***3. Few points prove that Jesus was Alive:

i. Christians say Jesus was willing to die but this is obviously false because Jesus prayed on God to save him.

"Going a little farther, he feel with his face to the ground and prayed, "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will." [Matthew 26:39]

ii. jesus was crying to Father for saving him and God heard his prayer. [Hebrews 5:7]

"Heard" means accepted. This I said before.

Iii. Angel appeared and strengthened to Jesus.[luke 22:43]

Which means God will save him by his angels.

Iv. Jesus stood on the shore.[John 21:4]

Cause he was Alive and If anyone see him then they will try to kill him again.

V. Jesus said to Mary Magdalen "Do not hold on to me." [John 20:17]

Cause Jesus will feel pain. If anybody touch any crucified body then He will feel pain So Jesus was Alive .

Vi. Jesus said "I have not yet returned to the Father." [John 20:17]

In Jews culture this mean He Is Alive and not yet back to God.

Vii. Mary Magdalen said she had seen Alive Jesus, not resurrected Jesus. [mark 16:11]

"When they heard that Jesus was alive and that she had seen him, they did not believe it". [Mark 16:11]

See "Alive" not resurrected.

Viii. Jesus said "why do you look for the living among the dead?" [luke 24:5]

Seems Jesus was a living man..Meaning He was Alive, not dead.

Ix. An Angel said Jesus was Alive:

"but didnt find Jesus body. They came and told us that they had seen a vision of angels, who said he was Alive." [Luke 24:23]

Angel didnt say Jesus was resurrected. Angel was "was alive" which means Jesus was always alive and didnt die.

X. Jesus proved that he was not sprit and resurrected from the dead by eating because after resurrection all will be sprit and sprit does not eat.

"Look at my hands and my feet. It is i myself! Touch me and see; a spirit does not have flesh and bones, as you see I have." [Luke 24:39]

"Jesus asked them, "Do you have anything here to eat?" [luke 24:41]

Why would Jesus mention the fact that he is NOT a spirit? Then why Jesus wanted to eat? What to prove?

Because Jesus himself said after death a man will be sprit/angel [luke 20:35-36] and spirit/angel do not eat food.

"In the resurrection from the dead will neither marry nor be given in marriage, n they can no longer die; for they are like the ANGELS. They are God's children, since they are the children of resurrection." [luke 20:35-36]

Here its very clear. Nothing to explain.

"Disciples gave him a piece of broiled fish, n he took it n ate it in their presence." [luke 24:42-43]

Jesus further proved to them he is alive by eating in front of them!

Xi. Jesus performed the sign of Jonah what he mentioned on Matthew 12:38-40 which means he will not die.
 
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Moshiur

Sunny
***4. Contradictions about crucifixion and resurrection in Bible which means here have clear ERROR!

A. It was the 3rd hour, and they crucified him. (Mark 15:25)

It was the 6th hour, and he was not yet crucified. (John 19:14)

What is true?

B. Jesus is given wine mixed with myrrh, but he doesn't drink. (Mark 15:23)

Jesus is given vinegar, but he doesn't drink. (Matthew 27:48, Luke 23:36)

Jesus is given vinegar and he drinks. (John 19:29-30)

Why 3 verse says different says? What is true?

C. What was Jesus's last words?

Jesus says "My God, My God, why hast thou forsaken me?" [Matthew 27:46-50]

Jesus called out with a Loud voice, "Father, into ur hands I commit my spirit." when he had said this, he breathed his last. [Luke 23:46]

What is true?

D. The compelled simon to bear the cross of Jesus. (Luke 23:26, Mark 15:21)

Jesus was bearing his cross himself. (John 19:17)

What is true?

E. They put Jesus on the cross.(Mark 15:21)

They put Jesus on the tree.(Peter 2:24)

Where Jesus was actually crucified?

E. One women saw 2 angels at the grave of Jesus. (John 20:12)

Two women saw an angel which meaning they saw 1 angel (matthew 28:1-2)

F. Mary the Magdalne And Mary the Mother of James and Joanna Returned back from the grave and told the eleven apostles all of what they saw. (Luke 24:9)

Mary the Magdalne and Mary and Salome returned back from the grave, and did not tell anyone anything because they were afraid.(Mark 16:8)

Here what is true actually?

G. Who went first to Tomb? 4 Gospel says different name....

John claimed Only Mary Magdalen went to tomb.(John 20:1)

Mark claimed Mary Magdalen, Second Mary and Shalome went to tomb.(Mark 16:1)

Luke claimed At least five women visit Jesus tomb. mary Magdalen, Mary the mother of James, Joanna and other women. (Luke 24:10)

Matthew claimed Two women visit Jesus tomb: Mary Magdalen and another Mary. (Matthew 28:1)

What is actually true?

Whole Gospels have too much contradiction about crucifixion issue which means this crucifixion is totally DOUBTFUL, FALSE and have clear ERROR!
 
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Moshiur

Sunny
***5. The real truth is in Quran:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- [Quran 4:157]

"Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise;-" [Quran 4:158]

Now its time to all Christians accept the truth. The truth is always Clear because God says,

"And say: 'The Truth has come and falsehood has vanished. Falsehood is surely bound to vanish." [Quran 17:81]

Only blinds will not accept the truth. God says for this,

"Deaf, dumb and blind, they not return (to the path)." [Quran 2:18]

Bible also says same:

"..Seeing they see not, and hearing they hear not, neither do they understand." [Matthew 13:13]

Regards..

Sunny!
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Hi Moshiur.
Welcome to RF.
I can see that you have lots of Bible knowledge, now you just need to refine your posting technique so that more people actually want to read them.
I admit it..... I didn't read them.
TLDR
But I did read your 'Thread Question': Was Jesus really crucified?
That's difficult. Certainly there were two Jesus's who were demonstrating in or near Jerusalem that week. Both were arrested, both charged and tried, both convicted and both sentenced to death. One was certainly pardoned and one was 'seen to be crucified', but there is a chance that Pilate, under warning from his own wife and possibly influenced in other ways, might have faked the death of Jesus.
The whipping of the chosen convict and then the 'crown of thorns' to bloody all the features of the person could well have been a successful attempt to conceal the identity of the one crucified. Also, and only a few hours on the cross, this person was not despatched with broken legs, and the spear thrust could have been a deception.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Lol I stopped reading when you wrote that Christian proof is their bible. No it isn't. And neither is church dogma, teachings, speculation. Pretty much every Xian believes in the crucifixion to some extent. I differ personally, in that I do not place as much importance on the 'crucifixion' as most Xians. It's just an episode in the life of Christ /JHVH when He walked among us.
Perhaps some explanations.
-I don't worship a man. I don't worship a Jewish Rabbi. Jesus the man is a reflection of the Deity that He was authorized, as Deific Himself, to speak on behalf of.
//lets go back to the Jewish Rabbi thing//
Jesus is for everyone. Ie non-Jews, vegans, whatever. Jesus as represented in Israel, was said to be specifically for Israel. Well, of course, because in that context He was Jewish! Jesus as Deity is not Jewish. Jesus is worshipped by many people //Jesus the God.

///Jesus is a Deity. The stories we have of Jesus the man,//in Israel,// are describing a Deity, in man form, not saying that 'God is a Jewish Rabbi.//
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
You're looking for proof from the Tanakh and the NT that God's children do not suffer and die.. But you skip over the suffering, and the death. You're being dishonest with yourself.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
What is actually true?

Whole Gospels have too much contradiction about crucifixion issue which means this crucifixion is totally DOUBTFUL, FALSE and have clear ERROR!

Who cares? What is your argument? That one invisible sky being is more probable than the Deity that walked among us?
 

Moshiur

Sunny
Hi Moshiur.
Welcome to RF.
I can see that you have lots of Bible knowledge, now you just need to refine your posting technique so that more people actually want to read them.
I admit it..... I didn't read them.
TLDR
But I did read your 'Thread Question': Was Jesus really crucified?

Thanks brother. I am new in this forum. How can I refine my posting technique? I will be grateful on you if you tell me that..


That's difficult. Certainly there were two Jesus's who were demonstrating in or near Jerusalem that week. Both were arrested, both charged and tried, both convicted and both sentenced to death. One was certainly pardoned and one was 'seen to be crucified', but there is a chance that Pilate, under warning from his own wife and possibly influenced in other ways, might have faked the death of Jesus.

I actually dont know how many Jesus were there! But your claiming can be true. God knows the best. I already proved that real Jesus were never crucified. This crucifixion is just a lie.
 

Moshiur

Sunny
Lol I stopped reading when you wrote that Christian proof is their bible. No it isn't. And neither is church dogma, teachings, speculation. Pretty much every Xian believes in the crucifixion to some extent. I differ personally, in that I do not place as much importance on the 'crucifixion' as most Xians.

Hello man! Its good to know that you are near the truth. Actually you have nothing to disagree because I have proved by your own bible that Jesus was not died actually.

It's just an episode in the life of Christ /JHVH when He walked among us.
Perhaps some explanations.
-I don't worship a man. I don't worship a Jewish Rabbi. Jesus the man is a reflection of the Deity that He was authorized, as Deific Himself, to speak on behalf of.
//lets go back to the Jewish Rabbi thing//

Here you are huge wrong. Jesus and JHVH are not same. Jesus himself said that He and JHVH are not same.

"MY FATHER IS GREATER THAN I" - [John 14:28]

Then why you are lying dear bro? Did you not read your bible?

Firstly, they didnt literally worship Jesus. Also, if anyone worship Jesus that doesnt mean Jesus was God. Even Prophet Daniel was worshipped by Nebuchadnezzar. Does that mean prophet daniel was God?

"Then the king Nebuchadnezzar fell upon his face and worshipped Daniel.." [Daniel, 2:46]

Also king David worshiped to soul. Those were not literally worship. That was just on respect.

When David went out of the cave and called out to Saul, "My lord the king!" when Saul looked behind him, DAVID BOWED DOWN AND PROSTRATED HIMSELF WITH HIS FACE TO THE GROUND" [1 Samuel, 24:8]

Jesus is for everyone. Ie non-Jews, vegans, whatever. Jesus as represented in Israel, was said to be specifically for Israel. Well, of course, because in that context He was Jewish! Jesus as Deity is not Jewish. Jesus is worshipped by many people //Jesus the God.

This is your another lie. Jesus himself directly said that he was sent only for Israel, not for others.

He answered "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." [Matthew 15:24]

Also see Matthew 10:5-6

Jesus said to his 12 Apostles:

"Do not go among the gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans" [Matthew 10:5]

Meaning DO NOT GO any town of gentiles. Gentiles means who are not Jewish.

"Go rather to the lost sheep of israel." [Matthew 10:6]

This is very clear.

///Jesus is a Deity. The stories we have of Jesus the man,//in Israel,// are describing a Deity, in man form, not saying that 'God is a Jewish Rabbi.//

This is your another lie. Jesus was not God. Also, Jesus never claimed himself as God. If you can give me only single verse where Jesus said "I am God or worship me" then today I will convert on christianity. So lets fast! Best of luck.
 

Moshiur

Sunny
You're looking for proof from the Tanakh and the NT that God's children do not suffer and die.. But you skip over the suffering, and the death. You're being dishonest with yourself.

Did you read my thread clearly? I didnt tell God's children doesnt die or suffer the problem. I meant that Psalms 91 was the prophecy about Jesus and God saved him from being crucified.
 

Moshiur

Sunny
Who cares? What is your argument? That one invisible sky being is more probable than the Deity that walked among us?

Who cares your lie? Firstly, thats not arguement. I just proved that Jesus was not crucified. Secondly, your claiming is false regarding the deity. God doesnt walk among us as He is not a man. God no need to become human. This is very clear in bible.

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should chang his mind, Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" [Numbers 23:19]

"...For i am God, and not a man-..." [Hosea 11:9]

"The strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: FOR HE(GOD) IS NOT A MAN, THAT HE SHOULD REPENT." [1 samuel, 15:29]

Did you not read your bible? I think you should read your scripture than your church's false doctrine!
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Did you not read your bible? I think you should read your scripture than your church's false doctrine!
Lol perhaps you should read the book of Hebrews. In it, the 'father' not only calls Jesus God, but says that Jesus is the creator. Elsewhere in the Bible, Jesus is said to have all the power in heaven and on earth. If you are correct, that means that a 'man' has all the power in heaven and earth, and the father is calling a man a 'god', and the creator.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Who cares your lie? Firstly, thats not arguement. I just proved that Jesus was not crucified. Secondly, your claiming is false regarding the deity. God doesnt walk among us as He is not a man. God no need to become human. This is very clear in bible.

"God is not a man, that he should lie, nor a son of man, that he should chang his mind, Does he speak and then not act? Does he promise and not fulfill?" [Numbers 23:19]

"...For i am God, and not a man-..." [Hosea 11:9]

"The strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: FOR HE(GOD) IS NOT A MAN, THAT HE SHOULD REPENT." [1 samuel, 15:29]
Jesus isn't a 'man'. That's the whole point.
 

Moshiur

Sunny
Lol perhaps you should read the book of Hebrews. In it, the 'father' not only calls Jesus God, but says that Jesus is the creator.

I gave you an open challenge but you failed to show that. Where Jesus said "I am God or worship me" ? I read your whole bible. There have nothing like that. Also, this is your another lie, Father never said that Jesus is creator of all or he is God. Give me reference pls before your claiming because I talk with the clear proof.

Elsewhere in the Bible, Jesus is said to have all the power in heaven and on earth. If you are correct, that means that a 'man' has all the power in heaven and earth, and the father is calling a man a 'god', and the creator.

Firstly, I agree that Jesus had the power in heaven and earth because he was the truth prophet of God, also he was the messiah which means christ. Every prophets who were closest on God they had power in heaven and earth. When Moses came that times he had, when Abraham came that times he had, when Isaiah came that times he had, when Jesus came that times he had. So whats wrong there? It literally means that jesus had power to lead people on heaven from earth who follow his words because he was truth on his time. He clearly said that he can do nothing by himself but by the help of Father.

"I can of mine own self do nothing..." [John 5:30]

"..I CAST OUT DEVILS BY THE SPIRIT OF GOD..." [Mathew 12:28]

So on the other word, he had the power of earth and heaven by the help of God.
 

Moshiur

Sunny
Jesus isn't a 'man'. That's the whole point.

I am really shocked to read your this claiming. Did you not read your bible? I know even few christians say Jesus was angel michel! I suggest christians to read the scripture please to know the truth.

In the book of Acts 2:22 clearly says Jesus was a man and God sent him.

"Men of Israel, listen to this: Jesus the Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know" [Acts 2:22]

See "was a man accredited by God to you"

I hope you will seek the truth and truth your set you free. As jesus said,

"Seek ye the truth, and the truth shall set you free." [John 8:30]

Anyway, my debate was regarding crucifixion but now its going on another debate. I have to make another thread that Jesus was God or not.
 

jeager106

Learning more about Jehovah.
Premium Member
I only know what I've been taught; that Jesus was the Son of God, not God.
That Jesus was to die for forgiveness of all mans sins if man will only believe in Him.
Given the Jewish leaders were really wanting rid of Jesus it's unlikely another man would have been crucified in His place starting a 2000 year old lie.
The Pharasees & Sadducees that hated Jesus would never have allowed Jesus to escape unscathed. That makes no sense, those Jews of authority would have made certain that the right Rabbi was put to death.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
I just proved that Jesus was not crucified.

No you did not prove anything other then bias, and a knowledge of history and pseudo history.


Real historians consider the crucifixion as close to fact as there can be. Nothing you have provided goes against this.
 
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