What about "God is Spirit" don't you accept? Christians only (all variants)

Scuba Pete · Apr 5, 2006

I Corinthians 15:50 I declare to you, brothers, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God, nor does the perishable inherit the imperishable. 51 Listen, I tell you a mystery: We will not all sleep, but we will all be changed— 52 in a flash, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. NIV

Apparently, when our physical body dies, we "go to sleep". However, it's not our current body that is raised... Only the imperishable part will meet Jesus.

Matthew 25;31 "When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32 All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.

34 "Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36 I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'
37 "Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'
40 "The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'
41 "Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43 I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'
44 "They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'
45 "He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.' 46 "Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life." NIV

Is this what you were refering to?

Scuba Pete · Apr 5, 2006

Squirt said:
Are you implying that I have not been born of the spirit, just because I look forward to the resurrection of my physical body?

I implied nothing. But, do you have any scriptures that indicate that our current physical body is being ressurected?

Do you have any scriptures that indicate that our physical bodies are all that important?

I leave you with these scriptures:

Philippians 1: Yes, and I will continue to rejoice, 19f or I know that through your prayers and the help given by the Spirit of Jesus Christ, what has happened to me will turn out for my deliverance. 20 I eagerly expect and hope that I will in no way be ashamed, but will have sufficient courage so that now as always Christ will be exalted in my body, whether by life or by death. 21 For to me, to live is Christ and to die is gain. 22 If I am to go on living in the body, this will mean fruitful labor for me. Yet what shall I choose? I do not know! 23 I am torn between the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far; 24 but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body. 25 Convinced of this, I know that I will remain, and I will continue with all of you for your progress and joy in the faith, 26 so that through my being with you again your joy in Christ Jesus will overflow on account of me. NIV

According to Paul, he will have to GIVE UP his body to be with Jesus. No offence meant here, but I think I'm gonna go with Paul on this! He speaks with a bit more authority!

Also consider this:

Matthew 10:28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. NIV

This indicates that the body can perish and that the soul continues.

Finally, lets read a bit more from I Corinthians 15...

I Corinthians 15:35 But someone may ask, "How are the dead raised? With what kind of body will they come?" 36 How foolish! What you sow does not come to life unless it dies. 37 When you sow, you do not plant the body that will be, but just a seed, perhaps of wheat or of something else. 38 But God gives it a body as he has determined, and to each kind of seed he gives its own body. 39 All flesh is not the same: Men have one kind of flesh, animals have another, birds another and fish another. 40 There are also heavenly bodies and there are earthly bodies; but the splendor of the heavenly bodies is one kind, and the splendor of the earthly bodies is another. 41 The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor.
42 So will it be with the resurrection of the dead. The body that is sown is perishable, it is raised imperishable; 43 it is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory; it is sown in weakness, it is raised in power; 44 it is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body.
If there is a natural body, there is also a spiritual body. 45 So it is written: "The first man Adam became a living being"; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit. 46 The spiritual did not come first, but the natural, and after that the spiritual. 47 The first man was of the dust of the earth, the second man from heaven. 48 As was the earthly man, so are those who are of the earth; and as is the man from heaven, so also are those who are of heaven. 49 And just as we have borne the likeness of the earthly man, so shall we bear the likeness of the man from heaven. NIV

Scuba Pete · Apr 5, 2006

BTW,

I have enjoyed this discussion so far. I heartily thank everyone who has participated, even if we didn't agree. I am not trying to end the discussion here, mind you. I just wanted to let you know how much I have enjoyed it!

Scott1 · Apr 5, 2006

Squirt said:
Zip, zilch, nada. (Until 1820 )

Interesting.... why do you think God failed so miserably for the better part of 2,000 years until Mr. Smith got it right?

Squirt · Apr 5, 2006

Scott1 said:
Interesting.... why do you think God failed so miserably for the better part of 2,000 years until Mr. Smith got it right?

Scott, there's really no need for sarcasm. I haven't been rude to you and I don't quite follow why you feel you must respond in this way. I don't believe that God has ever failed in anything He has done. He placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, told them to multiply and replenish the earth and to stay away from one specific tree. Look what happened. They blew it. They were cast out of the Garden of Eden and brought sin and death into the world. The same question might be asked about God's role in this sequence of events. Why did He fail? You and I both know that He didn't fail at all. He simply allows us our agency, and we mess up. That's what happened with Adam and Eve and that's what happened after the death of Jesus Christ. God didn't fail. People failed, and God didn't stop them. As to why He didn't call another prophet until 1830, perhaps you could suggest a time and place where a Restoration could have been successful. I believe He called Joseph to restore His Church at the time and place where this could be successful.

dawny0826 · Apr 5, 2006

Squirt said:
Scott, there's really no need for sarcasm. I haven't been rude to you and I don't quite follow why you feel you must respond in this way. I don't believe that God has ever failed in anything He has done. He placed Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden, told them to multiply and replenish the earth and to stay away from one specific tree. Look what happened. They blew it. They were cast out of the Garden of Eden and brought sin and death into the world. The same question might be asked about God's role in this sequence of events. Why did He fail? You and I both know that He didn't fail at all. He simply allows us our agency, and we mess up. That's what happened with Adam and Eve and that's what happened after the death of Jesus Christ. God didn't fail. People failed, and God didn't stop them. As to why He didn't call another prophet until 1830, perhaps you could suggest a time and place where a Restoration could have been successful. I believe He called Joseph to restore His Church at the time and place where this could be successful.

Why was a restoration necessary? (No flame intended)

Quiddity · Apr 6, 2006

*MOD POST*
JUST A REMINDER TO ALL OF THE THREAD TITLE AND WHAT THE OP INTENDED FOR THIS THREAD.

Squirt · Apr 6, 2006

dawny0826 said:
Why was a restoration necessary? (No flame intended)

I'd love to answer this question for you Dawny, but Victor, anticipating that I might do so, has insightfully "suggested" that I not. If you'd like to post it elsewhere, in a new thread, I'll be watching for it.

Squirt · Apr 6, 2006

NetDoc said:
I implied nothing. But, do you have any scriptures that indicate that our current physical body is being ressurected?

Well, we know that Jesus Christ was resurrected (unless you're going to deny that, too). The body that lay in the tomb turned up missing. The body He reappeared in bore the wounds that had caused His death. And those who knew Him recognized Him. When you use the words, "our current physical body," I'm not sure exactly what you mean. I don't believe we will be resurrected with bodies that are still corruptible, but I believe that the bodies we have now will be made perfect, incorruptible and immortal -- just as Jesus Christ's is.

Do you have any scriptures that indicate that our physical bodies are all that important?

If God created our physical bodies, I think we can safely assume they are important to Him. Why do you think He would have created something unimportant? The scriptures so tell us that not a hair of our heads shall perish and that all are numbered with God. I take that to mean that He will restore the physical and infuse it with spirit and glory.

DeepShadow · Apr 6, 2006

Forgive me if this has already been addressed; I found Doc's challenge interesting and thought I'd take him up on it. Let's start with Job 19: 26,

"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:"

Be gentle with me, if you don't mind. I'm still caught up in three jobs, dental work from the bike accident, and a baby due at the end of the month, among other things. I just thought Netdoc's question was a valid one, and wanted to give it a try.

Squirt · Apr 6, 2006

DeepShadow said:
Forgive me if this has already been addressed; I found Doc's challenge interesting and thought I'd take him up on it. Let's start with Job 19: 26,

"And though after my skin worms destroy this body, yet in my flesh shall I see God:"

Well, I may be mistaken, but I'd almost bet that Doc is going to say that this is referring to our "spiritual flesh."

DeepShadow · Apr 6, 2006

In that case I have to wonder what criterion one could provide...

But I'd better hear it from the Doc, when he's in.

...boy should I be in bed....

may · Apr 7, 2006

NetDoc said:
Only by their lives and actions.

I brought out a specific instance. The death that is talked about in Genesis. Was it spiritual or physical? MOST people who claim to be Christians will say "physical", but Adam and Eve did not physically die after they sinned. However, they WERE seperated from God, which is spiritual DEATH.

How many Christians actually rely on the Spirit to be their "Counselor"?

I have to disagree , they did die within the one day . was not Adam 930 when he died and the bible tells us that one day with Jehovah is a thousand years ,so they did die within the thousand year day
However, let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day 2 peter 3;8

For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past,

And as a watch during the night. psalm 90;4

Scuba Pete · Apr 9, 2006

That's probably the BEST reference we have had so far Deep Shadow! Frubals on your head.

The footnotes in the NIV are interesting:

Job 19:25 I know that my Redeemer [c] lives,
and that in the end he will stand upon the earth. [d]

26 And after my skin has been destroyed,
yet [e] in [f] my flesh I will see God; 27 I myself will see him
with my own eyesI, and not another.
How my heart yearns within me! NIV

Footnotes:

Job 19:26 Or And after I awake, / though this body has been destroyed, / then
Job 19:26 Or / apart from

This is obviously how Job understood his fate and NOT God instructing us. The teaching in this is NOT about our spiritual "bodies" but about Job's undying faith.

Scuba Pete · Apr 9, 2006

may said:
I have to disagree , they did die within the one day . was not Adam 930 when he died and the bible tells us that one day with Jehovah is a thousand years ,so they did die within the thousand year day
However, let this one fact not be escaping your notice, beloved ones, that one day is with Jehovah as a thousand years and a thousand years as one day 2 peter 3;8

For a thousand years are in your eyes but as yesterday when it is past,

Using your "equation", Adam was indeed a 930,000 years. The passage cited was about God's patience in saving us and to point out that our perception of time is not the same as God's. Using it as some sort of cypher to decode actual time is ludicrous.

Squirt · Apr 9, 2006

NetDoc said:
This is obviously how Job understood his fate and NOT God instructing us. The teaching in this is NOT about our spiritual "bodies" but about Job's undying faith.

So are we to understand that Job was wrong, and will not see God "in the flesh"?

Scuba Pete · Apr 9, 2006

Squirt said:
Well, we know that Jesus Christ was resurrected (unless you're going to deny that, too). The body that lay in the tomb turned up missing. The body He reappeared in bore the wounds that had caused His death. And those who knew Him recognized Him.

We are resurrected with Jesus in Baptism:

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. NIV

When do you think we start to live this "new life"??? Do you think we have to WAIT for heaven to be blessed?

Squirt said:
If God created our physical bodies, I think we can safely assume they are important to Him. Why do you think He would have created something unimportant? The scriptures so tell us that not a hair of our heads shall perish and that all are numbered with God. I take that to mean that He will restore the physical and infuse it with spirit and glory.

Dude... go and READ your scriptural reference: it has to do with OUR propensity to worry.

Matthew 10: 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny[d]? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground apart from the will of your Father. 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31So don't be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows. NIV

The point of this scripture was to NOT fear those who can only kill you physically: but spiritually as well.

Again, just trot out the scriptures that show us that our physical bodies amount to such, and I will trot out many more that will show you how they are not all that important.

Squirt · Apr 9, 2006

NetDoc said:
We are resurrected with Jesus in Baptism:

Romans 6:3 Or don't you know that all of us who were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? 4 We were therefore buried with him through baptism into death in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, we too may live a new life. NIV

Thanks, Doc. I appreciate your input. I just find it to be an incomplete picture.

When do you think we start to live this "new life"??? Do you think we have to WAIT for heaven to be blessed? Dude... go and READ your scriptural reference: it has to do with OUR propensity to worry.

I think we start to live a "new life" in a sense when we enter into a covenant relationship with our Savior. No, I don't think we need to wait for Heaven to be blessed. I am already very, very blessed. Heaven, I believe, holds even more blessings for us.

You're the second poster in two days who has referred to me as "Dude" or as a guy. FYI, I am very much a girl! :162:

Again, just trot out the scriptures that show us that our physical bodies amount to such, and I will trot out many more that will show you how they are not all that important.

I guess this is one topic on which we will just have to agree to disagree. I personally don't believe that God created anything that was not important, nor anything that is not eternal in nature.

Scuba Pete · Apr 11, 2006

Squirt said:
Thanks, Doc. I appreciate your input. I just find it to be an incomplete picture.

In what way?

Squirt said:
I think we start to live a "new life" in a sense when we enter into a covenant relationship with our Savior. No, I don't think we need to wait for Heaven to be blessed. I am already very, very blessed. Heaven, I believe, holds even more blessings for us.

Hmnnn... read this:

Matthew 5:3 "Blessed are the poor in spirit,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
4 Blessed are those who mourn,
for they will be comforted.
5Blessed are the meek,
for they will inherit the earth.
6Blessed are those who hunger and thirst for righteousness,
for they will be filled.
7 Blessed are the merciful,
for they will be shown mercy.
8 Blessed are the pure in heart,
for they will see God.
9 Blessed are the peacemakers,
for they will be called sons of God.
10 Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness,
for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you. NIV

According to Jesus, I am pretty blessed right now. But I do look forward to heaven.

Squirt said:
You're the second poster in two days who has referred to me as "Dude" or as a guy. FYI, I am very much a girl! :162:

Well you have a picture of a male cat for your avatar.

Squirt said:
I guess this is one topic on which we will just have to agree to disagree. I personally don't believe that God created anything that was not important, nor anything that is not eternal in nature.

Fair enough, Dudette!

Squirt · Apr 11, 2006

NetDoc said:
In what way?

In that I believe we will receive a new resurrected, immortal body of flesh and bones.

According to Jesus, I am pretty blessed right now. But I do look forward to heaven.

Right on! So am I and so do I.

Well you have a picture of a male cat for your avatar.

FYI, Doc, female cats have whiskers, too. The part of a cat that you have to check out to determine its sex is not shown in my avatar.

What about "God is Spirit" don't you accept? Christians only (all variants)

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