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Topic: Loving Jesus or Muhammad: Can I Have Both?

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
When the criminal besides Jesus on the torture stake asked him to remember him when he comes into his kingdom, what was Jesus reply?

Didn't he say "truly i tell you today you will be with me in paradise"

Hence, why would a criminal such as that man be promised a place in paradise? Obviously the verse at Romans 6:7 applies to all mankind in general. When anyone dies, believer or non-believer, their sins are paid for....they have paid the price for sin and hence their sins are forgiven.
This is the only explanation as to how that man could be promised a place in the paradise.



which means that if Christianity is true I am safe and will not be punished no matter how diabolical I become.
Since I am already saved if Christianity is true, there is no need to return to it and the sensible thing is to follow a non-Christian belief in the event Christianity is wrong.
 

Woodrow LI

IB Ambassador
Oh right, so all those images we see and accounts we read about muslims being put to death, stoned beaten etc are just false media...non of that really goes on?

Perhaps you prefer to believe these things occur due to cultural reasons rather then religious reasons? Unfortunately religion plays a major role in muslim culture and these things do occur because Islam prescribes it.

imo it needs to stop. People need to stop being executed or whipped or beaten because they failed to live perfectly. No one is perfect...where is the mercy Islam speaks so much about? Its not being demonstrated by muslims so how merciful can Islam really be?? Isnt it said that Allah is all merciful? Why dont muslims show the same mercy??

Virtually every Islamic nation has abolished capital Punishment or never used it. Of the 49 Islamic Nations only Saudi, Iran. Kuwait, Yemen Sudan, Mauritania and Pakistan Still have it on the books. Pakistan had abolished it but reinstated it as a result of the Peshwar School massacre.
It has never been used in Mauratania and seldom been used in the other nations except for Saudi, Iran and Iraq.
As for stonings I am only aware of 2 in recent years. One in Iraq, which while initially being reported being by Muslims was by Yazidi and one in the Sudan which may have been a falze report and the film clip was actually cut from a Hollywood Movies.
Yes, many horific things happen in Pakistan notably in the Punjab regions. but it is not condoned by Pakistan law or Islam they are murders not executions.
As for the cutting off of limbs I believe that has only happened in Saudi.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
which means that if Christianity is true I am safe and will not be punished no matter how diabolical I become.
Since I am already saved if Christianity is true, there is no need to return to it and the sensible thing is to follow a non-Christian belief in the event Christianity is wrong.

well that really depends on if you die before the door of opportunity is closed.

When Christ finally does take action against rebellious ones, that will happen to all who are currently alive. Hence, if Christ arrived tomorrow, how would he view you? Would he judge you to be among the wicked and cast you off into destruction, or will he judge you to be righteous and allow you to live under his rulership?

Is that a risk you want to take. We must heed the Apostle Peters advice:
2Peter 3:11 Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, consider what sort of people you ought to be in holy acts of conduct and deeds of godly devotion, 12 as you await and keep close in mind* the presence of the day of Jehovah,*+ through which the heavens will be destroyed+ in flames and the elements will melt in the intense heat! 13 But there are new heavens and a new earth that we are awaiting according to his promise,+ and in these righteousness is to dwell.+
14 Therefore, beloved ones, since you are awaiting these things, do your utmost to be found finally by him spotless and unblemished and in peace.+

If we are still living at the time when Christ takes over, how we are living at that time will determine our fate. For those who have already died, they will have a 2nd chance, but we who are alive today will not.
 

Kolibri

Well-Known Member
well that really depends on if you die before the door of opportunity is closed.

Reminds me of 2 Cor 6:2. Paul quotes Isa 49:8 in saying, "'In an acceptable time I heard you, and in a day of salvation I helped you.' Look! Now is the especially acceptable time. Look! Now is the day of salvation."

There are times when God stepped in directly in a destructive way, and those that perished were not said to have a hope for more life. 2 Peter refers to people that died in the Flood and at Sodom and Gomorrah as having not simply been put to death but destroyed, and then compares both of those time periods to Jehovah's day to cleanse the earth once more.

(In light of 2 Peter it would make sense to understand Jesus words at Mt 10:15; 11:24; and Luke 10:12 as hyperboles (a illustration that uses exaggeration to emphasize a point)).
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Virtually every Islamic nation has abolished capital Punishment or never used it. Of the 49 Islamic Nations only Saudi, Iran. Kuwait, Yemen Sudan, Mauritania and Pakistan Still have it on the books. Pakistan had abolished it but reinstated it as a result of the Peshwar School massacre.
It has never been used in Mauratania and seldom been used in the other nations except for Saudi, Iran and Iraq.
As for stonings I am only aware of 2 in recent years. One in Iraq, which while initially being reported being by Muslims was by Yazidi and one in the Sudan which may have been a falze report and the film clip was actually cut from a Hollywood Movies.
Yes, many horific things happen in Pakistan notably in the Punjab regions. but it is not condoned by Pakistan law or Islam they are murders not executions.
As for the cutting off of limbs I believe that has only happened in Saudi.

if just one of those things happens in just one place, its not good enough and we must find a better way. The best way is to trust that God, who sees all and knows all, will bring justice in his own way and in his own time.

This is why Christ told his followers not to get involved in the politics of the nations. They were to keep completely separate from all the worlds rulerships because all those rulerships (whether they are religious or political) will be judged and put out of action. 'All these things are to be dissolved" says the bible
Thats why we must keep separate from it and submit to Christs rulership. He is earths rightful ruler, he will bring all nations under his control and he will be the one to judge all people.... we are not given authority to do such things so we must keep out of anything to do with ruling over others.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Reminds me of 2 Cor 6:2. Paul quotes Isa 49:8 in saying, "'In an acceptable time I heard you, and in a day of salvation I helped you.' Look! Now is the especially acceptable time. Look! Now is the day of salvation."

There are times when God stepped in directly in a destructive way, and those that perished were not said to have a hope for more life. 2 Peter refers to people that died in the Flood and at Sodom and Gomorrah as having not simply been put to death but destroyed, and then compares both of those time periods to Jehovah's day to cleanse the earth once more.

(In light of 2 Peter it would make sense to understand Jesus words at Mt 10:15; 11:24; and Luke 10:12 as hyperboles (a illustration that uses exaggeration to emphasize a point)).

Yes we could say that some have already received their judgement. And then there are those who will be counted in among the wicked who are resurrected as the bible states; Acts 24:15 " there is going to be a resurrection of the righteous and the unrighteous " .. the unrighteous ones are those such as the criminal on the stake beside Jesus. Now that is mercy!!
 

Salek Atesh

Active Member
you can follow it if you like.

But if it is Gods final revelation, why would God need Jesus at all? Why not install mohammad as the one to lead mankind back to God?

Not very logical.

Hmmm. Why Moses?? Why not just Jesus?? Why Adam, for that matter, or any of the Prophets??

The Cycle of Judges explains why. The Word needs constant renewal as people turn from it.
 

bretzter

Member
I think the answer to that question,in a purely symbolical sense that is,could go as far back as when Jesus
said that a servant cannot serve two masters,one he will love/adore,while the other he will hate.
But I have a question,if the Muslims revere Jesus,who was born a Jew,as much as they do Muhammed,
why then do Muslims to this day hate Jews,actually their brother.
Is that not contradictory to anyone besides myself?.
 

Salek Atesh

Active Member
I think the answer to that question,in a purely symbolical sense that is,could go as far back as when Jesus
said that a servant cannot serve two masters,one he will love/adore,while the other he will hate.?.

"Two Masters" is often used to justify following Jesus but not Mohammed. I think this reasoning is faulty. Let me put it this way: you, as a Christian, certainly acknowledge the Prophethood of Abraham. You also certainly acknowledge the Prophethood of Moses. You probably also acknowledge that Jonah, Hosea, Joel, Amos, Obadiah, Micah, Nahum, Habbakkuk, Zephaniah, Haggai, Zechariah, Malachi, and Ezekiel are all Prophets as well. On top of that, you also love Jesus, or you would not be Christian. If acknowledging a Prophet is having that prophet as a master then you, dear friend, hold around Sixteen Masters by my count!!

But, of course, you do not have sixteen masters. All of those Prophets were sent by One God, who is your sole master. The Prophets each serve the same God, so there is no conflict, there is only one master, and his prophets more like "managers" I suppose. I assume you agree with this line of reasoning?? If not, how do you account for your sixteen masters??

It is the same logic with Muslims. They acknowledge many prophets, but all those prophets are of the same God. There is no multitude of masters, only One.

But I have a question,if the Muslims revere Jesus,who was born a Jew,as much as they do Muhammed,
why then do Muslims to this day hate Jews,actually their brother.
Is that not contradictory to anyone besides myself?.

I assume you are speaking of today, and not all of history?? For if we look at all of history, we get a different picture. The Golden Age of Spanish Jews happened under Muslim rule, and ended when the Muslims were ousted by the Spanish Christians, who then expelled the Jews. Jews at one time hailed the construction of the Dome on the Rock as the reconstruction of Solomon's Temple, and the Muslim leaders behind constructing that holy site declared that it was their intent. There's plenty of instances of the two groups getting along well in the past, so I assume you refer to present conflicts.

And in the present times, most Muslims do not hate Jews. Many Middle Easterners hate Israel, who's people happen to be Jewish. And antisemetic hate is born from that. But not only Muslim Middle Easterners, but many Middle Eastern Christians fall under this category as well. Look what happened when Ted Cruz spoke to Middle Eastern Christians and tried to convince them Israel was an ally to their cause. With that response from Middle Eastern Christians, one could easily ask of you "Why do the Christians hate the Jews??" But that is broad generalization, the real reason that a fraction of Christians and Muslims hate the Jews is more complex a subject.
 
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