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Abrahamics Only: Should there be a Karaite label under the Judaism tab?

rosends

Well-Known Member
No goal post has moved. My comments were obviously in reference to Messianic Judaism. Not Jews with different messianic beliefs.
People who call themselves Messianic Jews do not subscribe to your vision of what it is. You said "all" and then went back and said "I meant those in "official" groups" so you can exclude people whom you need to exclude. Next time, don't say "all" if you can't speak for "all". Which you can't.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
People who call themselves Messianic Jews do not subscribe to your vision of what it is. You said "all" and then went back and said "I meant those in "official" groups" so you can exclude people whom you need to exclude. Next time, don't say "all" if you can't speak for "all". Which you can't.

I assume intelligence on those reading my post. I hope it is assumed that I can't speak literally for each individual person regarding faith issues. I can speak for the institutions. Next time I will make this more clear for you.
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
I assume intelligence on those reading my post. I hope it is assumed that I can't speak literally for each individual person regarding faith issues. I can speak for the institutions. Next time I will make this more clear for you.
Thank you, and I assume the institutions appreciate your being their spokesperson.
 

nothead

Active Member
Ok…here is an example. Many people love to quote Yeshua stating "you shall love your neighbor as yourself". But few understand that the Torah actually gives us a blueprint for carrying out this beautiful command. Consider the follow passage from Lev 19 which defines how we love our neighbors:

9And when ye reap the harvest of your land, thou shalt not wholly reap the corners of thy field, neither shalt thou gather the gleanings of thy harvest. 10And thou shalt not glean thy vineyard, neither shalt thou gather every grape of thy vineyard; thou shalt leave them for the poor and stranger: I am the LORD your God.

11Ye shall not steal, neither deal falsely, neither lie one to another. 12And ye shall not swear by my name falsely, neither shalt thou profane the name of thy God: I am the LORD.

13Thou shalt not defraud thy neighbour, neither rob him: the wages of him that is hired shall not abide with thee all night until the morning. 14Thou shalt not curse the deaf, nor put a stumblingblock before the blind, but shalt fear thy God: I am the LORD.

15Ye shall do no unrighteousness in judgment: thou shalt not respect the person of the poor, nor honour the person of the mighty: but in righteousness shalt thou judge thy neighbour. 16Thou shalt not go up and down as a talebearer among thy people: neither shalt thou stand against the blood of thy neighbour: I amthe LORD.

17Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him. 18Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the LORD. Lev 19: 9-17


My point is that we can't isolate the "great commands" and think that as long as we do them we are ok. The whole Torah is about loving YHVH and loving our neighbor.

Some of these commands are difficult to do in detail. If you don't have a farm you can still operate under these guidelines in terms of giving to the poor. Its the premise that is easy to understand and if a man searches honestly, he will find the best way to carry out the command.

Loving your neighbor AS YOURSELF, was the second command of Jesus and really these are applications of Law, not the Core Law itself. Not one example would justify making these laws...if you think of the poor for instance AS YOURSELF, then of course you give these considerations.

Again, any action praised by Jesus was of faith, and this not necessarily lettered by the sublaws...the emission of blood which the woman had and also the faith she had that Jesus could heal her of this, is not covered by any law specifically...and the woman who gave her last pence was fulfilling in truth the Shema of the Jews.

So then again, although I will concede the Neighbor Golden Command as another Law which Jesus specifically said apart from the Ten, is true as the second command, is affirmed, the Ten and the Shema are primal, upon which ALL Law and the Prophets hang, (Shema).

As a traditional Jew this is not exactly good theology, but in light of Jesus' actual primal meanings he expounded upon when stating the Word of God, this is true and accurate. As a pentecostal we believe many specific applications are coming from our circumcised heart, and these supply the Law even unto a greater righteousness than the Pharisees.

Also, no law describes the simple faith of Ananias:

10 And there was a certain disciple at Damascus, named Ananias; and to him said the Lord in a vision, Ananias. And he said, Behold, I am here, Lord.

11 And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the street which is called Straight, and enquire in the house of Judas for one called Saul, of Tarsus: for, behold, he prayeth,

12 And hath seen in a vision a man named Ananias coming in, and putting his hand on him, that he might receive his sight.

13 Then Ananias answered, Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints at Jerusalem:

14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that call on thy name.

15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:

16 For I will shew him how great things he must suffer for my name's sake.

...but and yet he was obedient unto God.
 
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