• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Jesus vs Paul (eating idol meat)

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Where does Yeshua say he will take the "redeemed" to heaven during the millennial reign?

Is the Messiah wicked too? Cause he will be here.

I see by your post that you either did not read my posted Scriptures or that you choose to ignore them.
The messiah is not wicked or HE would not have been able to be the "Redeemer" of the Sinner(wicked).
Since the dead righteous and the living righteous will meet HIM in the air, Jesus at HIS coming for the HIS repentant/submitted "children" will not be staying on the earth.
It is hard to kick against the pricks as Jesus told Paul.

Just where are those scriptural validations for your claims?
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Simplelogic said:
What?? Yeshua, James and the Torah state to NOT eat it…period. Of course you should ask if the meat was offered to idols! What on earth are you talking about? CLEAN ANIMALS OFFERED TO IDOLS ARE FORBIDDEN BY JESUS HIMSELF!

19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Rev 2:19-20

14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. Rev 2: 14

None of this has anything to do with clean and unclean like you keep suggesting. This is an easy command of Jesus which was obviously being ignored in the regions of Asia minor. Hey, isn't that where all of Paul's converts were?? This is how simple this was:

If an animal was offered to an idol, it was FORBIDDEN.
Click to expand..

If Jesus was a sacrifice...to what and to whom was he sacrificed to?

FB, The sacrifice was to pay the sin price which all of mankind is subject to---Death. It was the LAW of GOD which demanded the Sacrifice.
Since mankind could NOT pay that death penalty and live. Jesus Christ in HIS LOVE offered to die for all who would repent of sinning and submit their will in obedience to the WILL of GOD.
Those animal sacrifices to Idols was a counterfeit and in place of the worship which is due only to the Creator GOD.
 

Faybull

Well-Known Member
Simplelogic said:
What?? Yeshua, James and the Torah state to NOT eat it…period. Of course you should ask if the meat was offered to idols! What on earth are you talking about? CLEAN ANIMALS OFFERED TO IDOLS ARE FORBIDDEN BY JESUS HIMSELF!

19I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first. 20Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols. Rev 2:19-20

14But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication. Rev 2: 14

None of this has anything to do with clean and unclean like you keep suggesting. This is an easy command of Jesus which was obviously being ignored in the regions of Asia minor. Hey, isn't that where all of Paul's converts were?? This is how simple this was:

If an animal was offered to an idol, it was FORBIDDEN.
Click to expand..



FB, The sacrifice was to pay the sin price which all of mankind is subject to---Death. It was the LAW of GOD which demanded the Sacrifice.
Since mankind could NOT pay that death penalty and live. Jesus Christ in HIS LOVE offered to die for all who would repent of sinning and submit their will in obedience to the WILL of GOD.
Those animal sacrifices to Idols was a counterfeit and in place of the worship which is due only to the Creator GOD.

Sin or no sin, death is inevitable. Right?
What law is there where God demanded the sacrifice of a human?

In my observation, it is a teaching that Jesus is a sacrifice. Of which he says nothing about being. So it is a teaching of the church, and not of Jesus. Is that a correct observation?
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
sincerly said:
FB, The sacrifice was to pay the sin price which all of mankind is subject to---Death. It was the LAW of GOD which demanded the Sacrifice.
Since mankind could NOT pay that death penalty and live. Jesus Christ in HIS LOVE offered to die for all who would repent of sinning and submit their will in obedience to the WILL of GOD.
Those animal sacrifices to Idols was a counterfeit and in place of the worship which is due only to the Creator GOD.

Sin or no sin, death is inevitable. Right?
What law is there where God demanded the sacrifice of a human?

In my observation, it is a teaching that Jesus is a sacrifice. Of which he says nothing about being. So it is a teaching of the church, and not of Jesus. Is that a correct observation?

FB, the Scriptures declared that SIN is Disobedience and the penalty is/was death. The Scriptures declare that Created Mankind would have continued to live and not see/endure death had the created pair continued in obedience.
Yes, today, since mankind chose to be disobedient, death is inevitable.

GOD Never "demanded" that there be a human sacrifice. And it is impossible for one sinful human to pay the death penalty for another human being. ALL humans are under the same death penalty.
Therefore, the free LOVE offering of GOD.
John 3:16-17, "
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
That Propitiation(sacrifice) was all who in faithful repenting and submitting to GOD'S Will chooses to have GOD as their GOD.

Matt,16:21 , "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."
John 18:37, "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
Paul has got you all turned upside down with this. Yeshua's physical kingdom is coming to earth very soon. Stand by.
Don't hold your breath, many thought he would be back in the Disciples life time.

If I see the temple being rebuilt, I might take notice. While none of us know the hour of his return, it is arrogant to believe it will be in your lifetime.
 

Reverend Rick

Frubal Whore
Premium Member
It is hard to kick against the pricks as Jesus told Paul.
if you can believe anything Saul ever said.

We only have his word to take on this which is no more credible than me saying Jesus told me that "Paul" is full of donkey dung.

Paul is a self proclaimed "Disciple".
 

sincerly

Well-Known Member
Simplelogic said:
Paul has got you all turned upside down with this. Yeshua's physical kingdom is coming to earth very soon. Stand by.

Don't hold your breath, many thought he would be back in the Disciples life time.

If I see the temple being rebuilt, I might take notice. While none of us know the hour of his return, it is arrogant to believe it will be in your lifetime.

RR, Yes, we humans have a bad habit of not looking at the forest because the trees get in the way. Biased opinions have a way of distorting the scriptural facts.It is those scriptural facts which will occur on time---at GOD'S good pleasure. As Peter wrote, GOD is long-suffering to save as many as will be obedient to HIS will.
But, day by day that event is drawing nearer and nearer to "that hour". HIS prophetic "signs" are being fulfilled in minute stages. So much so, that they are ignored as common occurrences.

I don't see there, scripturally, being another "Temple" being built.
What would be "arrogant" is disbelieving that HE can come at anytime.

sincerly said:
It is hard to kick against the pricks as Jesus told Paul.

Reverend Rick said:
if you can believe anything Saul ever said.

We only have his word to take on this which is no more credible than me saying Jesus told me that "Paul" is full of donkey dung.

Paul is a self proclaimed "Disciple".

That was Luke's writing and Ananias the prophet's reception from Jesus that Paul was, indeed, a vessel(messenger} to be sent on HIS mission to inform the world of HIS salvation of/to all who would believe.

Peter and James believed Paul. So do I. You are free to express your disbelief, but that will not change the scriptural truths that Paul taught the truths of the OT as they were fulfilled in the writings to the Churches(Believers) after the Resurrection of Jesus Christ.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Don't hold your breath, many thought he would be back in the Disciples life time.

If I see the temple being rebuilt, I might take notice. While none of us know the hour of his return, it is arrogant to believe it will be in your lifetime.

I realize it sounds presumptuous. There are numerous logical reasons to think that this is not far off. Have you heard of the Temple institute?

We’re Ready to Rebuild the Temple - Breaking Israel News
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
The scripture quoted above is an interesting one. Paul claims that "Jesus" said "its hard for you to kick against the pricks". Yet this phrase has its origins in pagan philosophers. This means Paul's quote of Jesus has him uttering a common pagan phrase….hmmm.

Euripides : "kicks against the pricks" (Euripides, Bacchae.)

Aeschylus:. "kicks against the pricks." (Aeschylus, Agamemnon 1624.)

Acts 26:13 "kicks against the pricks" (Luke quoting Paul's vision account)

Note on Euripides: The context is that Dionysus discards his divine nature and walks in the human world disguised…Dionysus, the god disguised in human form, tells him that his efforts to resist the new movement will be completely worthless; he is not contending against flesh and blood, but against a god. “You are mortal, he is a god. If I were you, I would control my rage and sacrifice to him, rather than kick against the pricks” [From Euripides, The Bacchae].
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The scripture quoted above is an interesting one. Paul claims that "Jesus" said "its hard for you to kick against the pricks". Yet this phrase has its origins in pagan philosophers. This means Paul's quote of Jesus has him uttering a common pagan phrase….hmmm.

Euripides : "kicks against the pricks" (Euripides, Bacchae.)

Aeschylus:. "kicks against the pricks." (Aeschylus, Agamemnon 1624.)

Acts 26:13 "kicks against the pricks" (Luke quoting Paul's vision account)

Note on Euripides: The context is that Dionysus discards his divine nature and walks in the human world disguised…Dionysus, the god disguised in human form, tells him that his efforts to resist the new movement will be completely worthless; he is not contending against flesh and blood, but against a god. “You are mortal, he is a god. If I were you, I would control my rage and sacrifice to him, rather than kick against the pricks” [From Euripides, The Bacchae].

Why am I following the wacky teachings of an itinerant quasi-Rabbi again?
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
1“For behold, in those days and at that time,
When I restore the fortunes of Judah and Jerusalem, (1967?)
2I will gather all the nations
And bring them down to the valley of Jehoshaphat.
Then I will enter into judgment with them there
On behalf of My people and My inheritance, Israel,
Whom they have scattered among the nations;
And they have divided up My land.

3“They have also cast lots for My people,
Traded a boy for a harlot
And sold a girl for wine that they may drink.

4“Moreover, what are you to Me, O Tyre, Sidon (Hezbollah) and all the regions of Philistia (Hamas)? Are you rendering Me a recompense? But if you do recompense Me, swiftly and speedily I will return your recompense on your head. 5“Since you have taken My silver and My gold, brought My precious treasures to your temples,6and sold the sons of Judah and Jerusalem to the Greeks in order to remove them far from their territory,7behold, I am going to arouse them from the place where you have sold them, and return your recompense on your head. 8“Also I will sell your sons and your daughters into the hand of the sons of Judah, and they will sell them to the Sabeans, to a distant nation,” for the LORD has spoken. Joel 3: 1-8
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
sincerly said:
FB, The sacrifice was to pay the sin price which all of mankind is subject to---Death. It was the LAW of GOD which demanded the Sacrifice.
Since mankind could NOT pay that death penalty and live. Jesus Christ in HIS LOVE offered to die for all who would repent of sinning and submit their will in obedience to the WILL of GOD.
Those animal sacrifices to Idols was a counterfeit and in place of the worship which is due only to the Creator GOD.



FB, the Scriptures declared that SIN is Disobedience and the penalty is/was death. The Scriptures declare that Created Mankind would have continued to live and not see/endure death had the created pair continued in obedience.
Yes, today, since mankind chose to be disobedient, death is inevitable.

GOD Never "demanded" that there be a human sacrifice. And it is impossible for one sinful human to pay the death penalty for another human being. ALL humans are under the same death penalty.
Therefore, the free LOVE offering of GOD.
John 3:16-17, "
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved."
That Propitiation(sacrifice) was all who in faithful repenting and submitting to GOD'S Will chooses to have GOD as their GOD.

Matt,16:21 , "From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day."
John 18:37, "Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice."

You are reading Paul into Yeshua.

Yeshua NEVER taught any faith alone logic. The word "pistis" which you have translated as "believe" is a faulty translation. Pistis is more accurately translated as trusts/obeys.
 

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
There is a perfectly logical reason for Yeshua's sacrifice, without Paul's crazy theological concepts…i.e. faith alone, original sin/total depravity.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
You are reading Paul into Yeshua.

Yeshua NEVER taught any faith alone logic. The word "pistis" which you have translated as "believe" is a faulty translation. Pistis is more accurately translated as trusts/obeys.

Faith and works aren't separate, that idea is a later hodge-podge of pagan philosophical figuring.
 
Top