Are Jews still God's Chosen People?

JM2C said:

Where do you think the bible came from or how it came about? I do believe that from Genesis to Revelation are the very words of God or came from God, otherwise my faith is in vain. Who do you think wrote Genesis? Moses did, but he did not appear until Exodus, so there is only one conclusion to that, and that is, God spoke to him.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

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You do not realise that you are worshipping the bible, like the Jews were and they missed Christ. Your faith is not vain if your faith rests on God; the book is a tool, it is not God. Jesus said in John 5:39-40, "You search the scriptures, because you think than in them you have eternal life; and it is these that bear witness of me; and you are unwilling to come to me, that you may have life."
Just consider for a moment the way I think 2Timothy 3:16 was originally written, "All scripture given by inspiration of God, is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness." You shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

free spirit said:

You do not realise that you are worshipping the bible, like the Jews were and they missed Christ. .

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First of all, it's an absolutely complete distortion to say that we worship the Bible, and you should be ashamed making such an absurd statement. Secondly, we didn't miss Jesus-- we just look at him differently than you do.

viole said:

Well, you said that the Bible is prone to corrections. I think it is a verse of the Bible itself you quoted (2Ti 3:16). I hope that the correction does not involve only this particular verse.

So, where is the version with these corrections?

Ciao

- viole

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I think you got the wrong guy here my friend.

free spirit said:

What I am saying is that the"bible is not inerrant" God is the one that is inerrant.

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dantech said:

You said: "Are you acquainted with all the laws of your country", as if not knowing the laws makes it okay for you to fail at observing all of them. Next, you insinuate (using Christian scripture) that when you have a collection of laws, if a single one isn't observed, that we've failed completely. We have been responding that this concept is inexistent in Judaism.
Let me explain quickly and simply, and then maybe you'll just stop trying to convince Jews that Christian scripture is what should matter to them.

1)Jews believe that regardless of how many sins you have committed in your life, that you can always repent if you are sincere in your will to repent.
2)Jews believe that NO ONE, and that includes God himself, can repent for you or clear you of your sins except for yourself.
3)Jews don't believe that repentance means putting your faith in someone.
4)Jews believe that to repent, you basically need to stop committing sins. Knowing what is a sin is your responsibility. It is impossible to know everything by heart. If you do make it an effort to learn, then God, in all his fairness, will forgive you for the ones you haven't learned about yet.
5)A popular Jewish teaching teaches that you will know your repentance is complete when you are put in a position in which you ordinarily would sin, but you don't.
6)Jews could not care less (regarding themselves) about what is written in Christian Scripture, though they may be interested just for general knowledge.

Fellow Jews could correct me if I am wrong.

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1) Most Christians believe that they can always repent: But our scriptures sais not always. Correct me if I am wrong, but I read somewhere that Esau searched for repentance with tears, but he could not find it.
2) No, no one can repent for you: But another person can pay your debt.
3) Faith is not repentance, some Christians are confused about that. Sin no more, is true repentance.
4) I agree.
5) I agree.
6) Some Christians use the old testament a lot, others sparingly, but we all respect it.
We are not far from one another, are we!

metis said:

First of all, it's an absolutely complete distortion to say that we worship the Bible, and you should be ashamed making such an absurd statement. Secondly, we didn't miss Jesus-- we just look at him differently than you do.

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No you didn't miss Jesus, you fail to see Him as the Christ, You are still looking for the Christ, I am afraid that the one you will accept as the Christ will be the false one, with disastrous consequences.

free spirit said:

1) God show no partiality, the law is the will and character of God, it was given to the Jews to make them better than the rest of us. Because they were chosen to bring the Christ into the world, therefore they had to be educated about God above other people.
2) Now I know were the Roman Catholic get their ongoing confession routine. Come on..... you are not serious, are you! If you are you are making God a joke.
3) If we follow your reasoning God will have to apologise to all of those who came out of Egypt.

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1. Ridiculous. Not only is this a Christological theology utterly foreign to incompatible with Judaism and Torah, it is self-contradictory. If God shows no preference, He wouldn't give Torah to the Jews at all, lest by "making them better" He be showing partiality! It's just silly. Torah is neither about making Jews better than non-Jews nor about God showing partiality. It's about God relating to different peoples in different ways and vice versa. The way He and Jews relate to one another is Torah. Maybe the way He relates to other peoples is through other religions. We don't know, and it's not our business.

2. It seems much more reasonable that God, creating imperfect brings, would not unreasonably expect perfection of them. Who would want to believe that God deliberately sets everyone up to fail?!

3. This is just incoherent nonsense.

free spirit said:

Yes, if you mean Jacob, but Esau is in darkness.
we read in Romans 9:6-13: “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel, neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but through Isaac your descendants will be named. That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.”… And verse 13 says: “Just as it is written, Jacob I loved but ESAU I hated.”
Please ask yourself, is Esau a descendant of Abraham? And if he is, why does God say that about him? Obviously Esau is not the apple of God’s eye, even if he is the twin brother of Jacob. The problem is that most of us cannot distinguish the difference in the attitudes of the two children of Isaac. So let me explain to you that the present day Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus are children of the flesh as Esau was, and unfortunately we read that God is not very pleased with them, unless they convert and believe in the life of our Lord Jesus, in order to be saved from eternal death, just as all the rest of the unregenerate believers have to do. Also Christians are not immune from having in our midst fleshly brethren. For it is not enough to believe in the existence of God, and/or Jesus without doing also the works of repentance. As you know, the Devil also believes in the existence of God and Jesus.

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Can you use strictly Jewish scripture to make the same point. Leave Paul out.

free spirit said:

I have given you proof, I can only give you reasons why I believe to be so; the rest is up to you, for conviction come from within.

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What proof you’re talking about?

free spirit said:

I) God shows no partiality, in other words we are all the same in God's eyes: Romans 11:26, is a diversion put there by a Jew, it's a lie.

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Where is your proof that Romans 11:26 is a lie? Yeah, your reason.

free spirit said:

IV) You wrote Ro 11:11 "Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery?

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free spirit said:

Not at all!" God doesn't ply games, ("to make them envious" it is a lie) they are not beyond recovery they only have to believe in Christ to be saved, they still have an advantage over the Gentiles because they have the LAW and the prophets.

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Where is your proof that Romans 11:11 is a lie? Yeah, your reason.

Your proof is your reason? We all could reason without any proof at all and that is what we call “OPINION”. Opinion generates nothing but ignorance. You are creating your own religious or theology base on your own “OPINION”?

free spirit said:

Yes David was referring to Christ, but I am only proving to you that Matthews 27:52-53 never took place, it is a lie. It is obvious that there was someone going around saying that the resurrection had already taken place, read 2Timothy 2:18.

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Another "OPINION" base on reason as a proof that “Matthew 27:52-53 never took place”. It’s like saying that, “If I can’t understand it then I will call it “a lie” and that is my proof based on reason”.

free spirit said:

You are still looking for the Christ, I am afraid that the one you will accept as the Christ will be the false one, with disastrous consequences.

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Actually I'm not.

metis said:

Actually I'm not.

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Me neither.

Levite said:

Me neither.

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nor I

free spirit said:

1) Most Christians believe that they can always repent: But our scriptures sais not always. Correct me if I am wrong, but I read somewhere that Esau searched for repentance with tears, but he could not find it.

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This is a common mistake that derives from false translations. Look it up. It doesn't explicitly say that the tears were for repentance.

2) No, no one can repent for you: But another person can pay your debt.

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So, if I murder someone, you can get punished or repent in my place? And in doing so, clearing me of the consequences of having murdered someone?

3) Faith is not repentance, some Christians are confused about that. Sin no more, is true repentance.

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Agreed.

6) Some Christians use the old testament a lot, others sparingly, but we all respect it.
We are not far from one another, are we!

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In what sense? Because we both respect the Torah? There's a difference between respecting the Torah, and attempting to base as many aspects of your life on the Torah.

free spirit said:

No you didn't miss Jesus, you fail to see Him as the Christ, You are still looking for the Christ, I am afraid that the one you will accept as the Christ will be the false one, with disastrous consequences.

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We don't "fail to see him as the christ", whatever that means... We, after extensive research and study, have made an informed decision that Jesus could not be the Messiah, and definitely not be God. You just fail to see that.

jeager106 said:

Open to Jews & Christians please. Are Jews still God's chosen people? Are they not.
Please explain to me why they are or are not. Cite Scripture please, even a little.
I'm here to learn, not to start arguments with Jews & Christians.

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there is a parable about a master who has an olive tree in a garden that illustrates them pretty well throughout the ages and times to come;
.. and yes they are, and they are also the means of making everyone else part of God's people, and that at times they will recieve fire and at other times they will be fruitful.

Yes, God disinherited the Jews. The story goes like this:

God called a military draft, which was to go according to God's draft law. That law said that people can pay one penny (literally) to escape the military draft, but only if they do not believe in the war.

In the first draft call, all but two paid the penny, which was illegal because they did believe in the war. This upset God... Well, technically God knew they were going to do it, and was not truly upset, it was just used to provide information for the future of mankind... Anyway, here's what is written:

Num 14:12 I will smite them with the pestilence, and disinherit them, and will make of thee a greater nation and mightier than they.
Num 14:13 And Moses said unto the LORD, Then the Egyptians shall hear it, (for thou broughtest up this people in thy might from among them
Num 14:14 And they will tell it to the inhabitants of this land: for they have heard that thou LORD art among this people, that thou LORD art seen face to face, and that thy cloud standeth over them, and that thou goest before them, by day time in a pillar of a cloud, and in a pillar of fire by night.
Num 14:15 Now if thou shalt kill all this people as one man, then the nations which have heard the fame of thee will speak, saying,
Num 14:16 Because the LORD was not able to bring this people into the land which he sware unto them, therefore he hath slain them in the wilderness.
Num 14:17 And now, I beseech thee, let the power of my Lord be great, according as thou hast spoken, saying,
Num 14:18 The LORD is longsuffering, and of great mercy, forgiving iniquity and transgression, and by no means clearing the guilty, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation.
Num 14:19 Pardon, I beseech thee, the iniquity of this people according unto the greatness of thy mercy, and as thou hast forgiven this people, from Egypt even until now.
Num 14:20 And the LORD said, I have pardoned according to thy word:
Num 14:21 But as truly as I live, all the earth shall be filled with the glory of the LORD.

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I know that sounds like God forgave and pardoned them, but in reality Israel was no longer God's chosen people. They did receive their nation, but that was about all.

Num 14:32 But as for you, your carcases, they shall fall in this wilderness.
Num 14:33 And your children shall wander in the wilderness forty years, and bear your whoredoms, until your carcases be wasted in the wilderness.

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The whole "chosen people" thing is really a serious exduration. There were "chosen" to get a nation, nothing more. There were never more loved by God than anyone else.

God gave us one message. One choice. Chose World Peace or Judgment Day. That one message implies that all people are equals under God. There is no one special chosen people or religion.

As for you Christians. Christ said you have to believe in his name, but you don't. You don't understand his name, therefore you don't believe in it.

There is nothing magical about that statement, that you have to believe in his name. That statement was true before Jesus, and would be true if Jesus never existed.

If you want to be saved, you have to believe in salvation. You have to believe in World Peace.

The fact is, you can be an Atheist, Satanist, or whatever, and believe in World Peace, therefore it does not matter what religion you believe in. It is your actions which can save you.

If you do not believe in World Peace, you will not work on World Peace, and so you will not be saved. If you believe in it, than you will work very hard on it, and than you will be saved.

Tony

Conceivia said:

Yes, God disinherited the Jews. The story goes like this:

God called a military draft, which was to go according to God's draft law. That law said that people can pay one penny (literally) to escape the military draft, but only if they do not believe in the war.

In the first draft call, all but two paid the penny, which was illegal because they did believe in the war. This upset God... Well, technically God knew they were going to do it, and was not truly upset, it was just used to provide information for the future of mankind... Anyway, here's what is written:



I know that sounds like God forgave and pardoned them, but in reality Israel was no longer God's chosen people. They did receive their nation, but that was about all.



The whole "chosen people" thing is really a serious exduration. There were "chosen" to get a nation, nothing more. There were never more loved by God than anyone else.

God gave us one message. One choice. Chose World Peace or Judgment Day. That one message implies that all people are equals under God. There is no one special chosen people or religion.

As for you Christians. Christ said you have to believe in his name, but you don't. You don't understand his name, therefore you don't believe in it.

There is nothing magical about that statement, that you have to believe in his name. That statement was true before Jesus, and would be true if Jesus never existed.

If you want to be saved, you have to believe in salvation. You have to believe in World Peace.

The fact is, you can be an Atheist, Satanist, or whatever, and believe in World Peace, therefore it does not matter what religion you believe in. It is your actions which can save you.

If you do not believe in World Peace, you will not work on World Peace, and so you will not be saved. If you believe in it, than you will work very hard on it, and than you will be saved.

Tony

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What is it with this obsession about "being saved"?

dantech said:

What is it with this obsession about "being saved"?

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You don't know?
Like its says above - A penny saved is a penny earned!

The 30 pieces of silver were paid, and put in the potters field in the house of Israel, so Zec 11:10 ended the covenant made with all people; so there is no longer an Abrahamic covenant.
So Yeshua has chosen who is entitled from the foundation of the earth; there is no longer a chosen race or religion.

Jews are still God's chosen people, some are rigtheous and follow their scripture in truth.
We are all chosen and need to do righteous deeds, believe in one God and believe in the hereafter.