Are Jews still God's Chosen People?

Kolibri · Dec 11, 2014

As the authenticity of the scriptures keeps being challenged. I thought to point out the precision by which we can know the text of the original documents by secular means. All after this is a quote from this source: A3 How the Bible Came to Us — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Commenting on the text of the Hebrew Scriptures, scholar William H. Green stated: "It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately translated." Regarding the Christian Greek Scriptures, or so-called New Testament, Bible scholar F.F. Bruce wrote: "The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning." He also said: "If the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt."
...
Based on those master texts, it is evident that some verses of the Christian Greek Scriptures found in older translations, such as the King James Version, were actually additions made by later copyists and were never part of the inspired Scriptures. However, because the verse division generally accepted in Bible translations was already established in the 16th century, the omission of these verses now creates gaps in the verse numbering in most Bibles. The verses are Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44,46; 11:26; 15:28; Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; and Romans 16:24.
...
Regarding the long conclusion for Mark 16 (verses 9-20), the short conclusion for Mark 16, and the wording found at John 7:53-8:11, it is evident that none of these verses were included in the original manuscripts.
/End Quote

Outside of these exceptions, it is my opinion, that if the Christian Greek Scriptures are to be considered "God Breathed," we do not have the right to pick and choose what are God's thoughts and what are not. We might not understand how it harmonizes with other parts yet, but that is a different subject. I can not easily abide by this teaching that apostasy pre-infected our Holy Writings.
/Rant Off (Yeah I guess I am ranting. Sorry.)

Levite · Dec 11, 2014

free spirit said:
We can only keep the Law if you have the Holy Spirit. You cannot keep the Law if the law is outside of your heart, get the Law in your heart and your character will change; and you will naturally do the things of the law. The character of God is described by Jesus when He was asked what commandment is the foremost of all.
Jesus answered. “The foremost is, hear, o Israel! The Lord our God is one Lord;
30 and you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind, and with all your strength.
31 “The second is this; you shall love your neighbour as yourself. There is no other commandment greater than these.”
32 And the scribe said to Him. “Right, teacher, you have truly stated that He is one; and there is no one else besides Him;
33 And to love Him with all the heart and with all the understanding and with all the strength, and to love one’s neighbour as himself, is much more than all burnt offerings and sacrifices.”
34 And when Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him. “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”

You understand that quoting Christian scripture has zero value or relevance to Jews, right? Nor, for that matter, does citing Christian theologies that have no place in Judaism.

roger1440 · Dec 11, 2014

free spirit said:
1) Religion imperialism; Yes, God wants that the gospel to be preached all over the world.
2) Only God can lead us to God.
3) I never said that! What I said could be interpreted ... put on his character and you would be in God.

Doesn't Jewish scripture say that the Jews will be a light unto the world?

"he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."" (Isaiah 49:6)

free spirit · Dec 11, 2014

Brickjectivity said:
I applaud you for overcoming racism and loving your fellow human beings and resisting the urge to accuse people of things. I don't disrespect you. I respect you. I just don't think you are prepared to listen to anyone. I don't blame you for that either. Things are all screwed up out there.

Believe it or not this is about slavery. The man writing 1 Corinthians himself is referring to 1 Samuel. He wouldn't ever, ever, ever discourage you from reading 1 Samuel. He wants you to read it. He expects you to have read it, because he wants you to be free. What appears in 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 is a lesson learned from Hannah's Song in the book 1Samuel, and its about freedom from slavers, from invaders and pillagers. Knowing this doesn't make me educated. It makes me free, a joint beneficiary of knowledge that has been denied to you and I at one time that we should have been given, spiritual milk that was denied to us. It was denied, because it could unlock our chains, not because it was in any way harmful to us. Freely I have received, and freely give. Hannah says "Those who were full hire themselves out for food, but those who were hungry hunger no more." "He raises the poor from the dust and lifts the needy from the ash heap; he seats them with princes and has them inherit a throne of honor." That is what 1 Corinthians 1:26-29 alludes to, and you heard it from me first, and I'm no scholar, no scribe or anything like it.

For the life of me, I do not know how you get that. However I will read 1Samuel and get back to you.

free spirit · Dec 11, 2014

Moishe3rd said:
So, Jesus was lying when he said (from your quote): "And when Jesus saw that he had answered intelligently, He said to him. “You are not far from the kingdom of God.”
He wasn't answering "intelligently?"
Or he was wrong?
Or Jesus didn't mean that these are Laws from the Torah?
What?
Give me a hint, here...

He was not far from the kingdom of God, that meant that he was not yet in the Kingdom of God.
Yes to love God and thy neighbour encompasses all of the law of God. That is what Paul was saying. True Christians do not abolish the law, for by obeying the principal commandment they establish the law. However we can only love God and our neighbour if we have the Holy Spirit. Any other way it is a hit and miss affair. I hope the following gives you more understanding. We read in
John 3:1-21: “Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night, and said to Him, ‘Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with Him.’”
Without realising it, Nicodemus had made a very important confession of faith to Jesus, by saying, they knew that Jesus had come from God as a teacher. By saying that, he demonstrated that he and others were believing and able to see the Kingdom of God in Jesus, for they recognised that God was performing miracles through Him. Jesus in turn confirmed that Nicodemus and others where able to see the Kingdom, for He answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” (Jesus’ words can also be understood to say; only a believer can see what you said.)
Unfortunately, Nicodemus did not recognise Jesus’ answer as a confirmation of his ability to see the Kingdom, for he was thrown completely out of balance because he could only think of having to be born again from his mother’s womb. Jesus however, in correcting Nicodemus’s misunderstanding, moved to the next spiritual transition by saying, “Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.” (Jesus’ words can also be understood to say; unless one is converted and repents he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.)
It is obvious that Nicodemus had no trouble seeing the Kingdom of God in Jesus because he was a God-fearing man, honestly believing in the existence of God, trusting his spirit, which was born again as a believer through his Jewish religion.
Therefore we can be certain that all who earnestly believe and have a fear of God, regardless from which doctrine their faith was born, has the capability of seeing the Kingdom of God. (Remember the Roman centurion, Matthew 8:10 and the Canaanite woman, Matthew 15:27 - 28.)
Now to understand the transitional meaning of being “born of water and the spirit”, one has to consider that the Lord is telling us that a conversion of our beliefs and attitude has to take place through our immersion in the water of the word, and to live our lives according to our new understanding of godliness which comes from that word. That is to say, this conversion has to move us from a faith based on religions doctrines to a lifestyle of godliness so that we might eventually share His Divine character.

Moishe3rd · Dec 11, 2014

free spirit said:
He was not far from the kingdom of God, that meant that he was not yet in the Kingdom of God.
Yes to love God and thy neighbour encompasses all of the law of God. That is what Paul was saying. True Christians do not abolish the law, for by obeying the principal commandment they establish the law. However we can only love God and our neighbour if we have the Holy Spirit. Any other way it is a hit and miss affair. I hope the following gives you more understanding. We read in
John 3:1-21: “Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night, and said to Him, ‘Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with Him.’”
Without realising it, Nicodemus had made a very important confession of faith to Jesus, by saying, they knew that Jesus had come from God as a teacher. By saying that, he demonstrated that he and others were believing and able to see the Kingdom of God in Jesus, for they recognised that God was performing miracles through Him. Jesus in turn confirmed that Nicodemus and others where able to see the Kingdom, for He answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” (Jesus’ words can also be understood to say; only a believer can see what you said.)
Unfortunately, Nicodemus did not recognise Jesus’ answer as a confirmation of his ability to see the Kingdom, for he was thrown completely out of balance because he could only think of having to be born again from his mother’s womb. Jesus however, in correcting Nicodemus’s misunderstanding, moved to the next spiritual transition by saying, “Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.” (Jesus’ words can also be understood to say; unless one is converted and repents he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.)
It is obvious that Nicodemus had no trouble seeing the Kingdom of God in Jesus because he was a God-fearing man, honestly believing in the existence of God, trusting his spirit, which was born again as a believer through his Jewish religion.
Therefore we can be certain that all who earnestly believe and have a fear of God, regardless from which doctrine their faith was born, has the capability of seeing the Kingdom of God. (Remember the Roman centurion, Matthew 8:10 and the Canaanite woman, Matthew 15:27 - 28.)
Now to understand the transitional meaning of being “born of water and the spirit”, one has to consider that the Lord is telling us that a conversion of our beliefs and attitude has to take place through our immersion in the water of the word, and to live our lives according to our new understanding of godliness which comes from that word. That is to say, this conversion has to move us from a faith based on religions doctrines to a lifestyle of godliness so that we might eventually share His Divine character.

Oy. Vey Izmir.

free spirit · Dec 11, 2014

Levite said:
You understand that quoting Christian scripture has zero value or relevance to Jews, right? Nor, for that matter, does citing Christian theologies that have no place in Judaism.

Yes I understand, However you know the laws of the Torah, and Jesus was a Jew: therefore you can show me where He lied.

free spirit · Dec 11, 2014

Moishe3rd said:
Oy. Vey Izmir.

I take it as goodbye

free spirit · Dec 11, 2014

roger1440 said:
Doesn't Jewish scripture say that the Jews will be a light unto the world?

"he says: "It is too small a thing for you to be my servant to restore the tribes of Jacob and bring back those of Israel I have kept. I will also make you a light for the Gentiles, that my salvation may reach to the ends of the earth."" (Isaiah 49:6)

Yes, if you mean Jacob, but Esau is in darkness.
we read in Romans 9:6-13: “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel, neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but through Isaac your descendants will be named. That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.”… And verse 13 says: “Just as it is written, Jacob I loved but ESAU I hated.”
Please ask yourself, is Esau a descendant of Abraham? And if he is, why does God say that about him? Obviously Esau is not the apple of God’s eye, even if he is the twin brother of Jacob. The problem is that most of us cannot distinguish the difference in the attitudes of the two children of Isaac. So let me explain to you that the present day Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus are children of the flesh as Esau was, and unfortunately we read that God is not very pleased with them, unless they convert and believe in the life of our Lord Jesus, in order to be saved from eternal death, just as all the rest of the unregenerate believers have to do. Also Christians are not immune from having in our midst fleshly brethren. For it is not enough to believe in the existence of God, and/or Jesus without doing also the works of repentance. As you know, the Devil also believes in the existence of God and Jesus.

roger1440 · Dec 11, 2014

free spirit said:
Yes, if you mean Jacob, but Esau is in darkness.
we read in Romans 9:6-13: “But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For they are not all Israel who are descended from Israel, neither are they all children because they are Abraham’s descendants, but through Isaac your descendants will be named. That is, it is not the children of the flesh who are children of God, but the children of the promise are regarded as descendants.”… And verse 13 says: “Just as it is written, Jacob I loved but ESAU I hated.”
Please ask yourself, is Esau a descendant of Abraham? And if he is, why does God say that about him? Obviously Esau is not the apple of God’s eye, even if he is the twin brother of Jacob. The problem is that most of us cannot distinguish the difference in the attitudes of the two children of Isaac. So let me explain to you that the present day Jews who do not believe in the Lord Jesus are children of the flesh as Esau was, and unfortunately we read that God is not very pleased with them, unless they convert and believe in the life of our Lord Jesus, in order to be saved from eternal death, just as all the rest of the unregenerate believers have to do. Also Christians are not immune from having in our midst fleshly brethren. For it is not enough to believe in the existence of God, and/or Jesus without doing also the works of repentance. As you know, the Devil also believes in the existence of God and Jesus.

Indirectly what you are saying is that Jews need to read Christian scripture to understand Jewish scripture.

free spirit · Dec 11, 2014

Kolibri said:
As the authenticity of the scriptures keeps being challenged. I thought to point out the precision by which we can know the text of the original documents by secular means. All after this is a quote from this source: A3 How the Bible Came to Us — Watchtower ONLINE LIBRARY

Commenting on the text of the Hebrew Scriptures, scholar William H. Green stated: "It may be safely said that no other work of antiquity has been so accurately translated." Regarding the Christian Greek Scriptures, or so-called New Testament, Bible scholar F.F. Bruce wrote: "The evidence for our New Testament writings is ever so much greater than the evidence for many writings of classical authors, the authenticity of which no one dreams of questioning." He also said: "If the New Testament were a collection of secular writings, their authenticity would generally be regarded as beyond all doubt."
...
Based on those master texts, it is evident that some verses of the Christian Greek Scriptures found in older translations, such as the King James Version, were actually additions made by later copyists and were never part of the inspired Scriptures. However, because the verse division generally accepted in Bible translations was already established in the 16th century, the omission of these verses now creates gaps in the verse numbering in most Bibles. The verses are Matthew 17:21; 18:11; 23:14; Mark 7:16; 9:44,46; 11:26; 15:28; Luke 17:36; 23:17; John 5:4; Acts 8:37; 15:34; 24:7; 28:29; and Romans 16:24.
...
Regarding the long conclusion for Mark 16 (verses 9-20), the short conclusion for Mark 16, and the wording found at John 7:53-8:11, it is evident that none of these verses were included in the original manuscripts.
/End Quote

Outside of these exceptions, it is my opinion, that if the Christian Greek Scriptures are to be considered "God Breathed," we do not have the right to pick and choose what are God's thoughts and what are not. We might not understand how it harmonizes with other parts yet, but that is a different subject. I can not easily abide by this teaching that apostasy pre-infected our Holy Writings.
/Rant Off (Yeah I guess I am ranting. Sorry.)

Unfortunately we do not have the original writings, but who dictated them lives to this day, therefore if we have Him who inspired the writings, He will show us which is the wheat and which are the tares. If the spirit of Christ is in you, all you have to do is trust Him.. I know that Jesus was Holy and His apostles were too, but
In the book of Acts 16:3, we read: “Paul wanted this man to go with him; and he took him and circumcised him because of the Jews who were in those parts, for they all knew that his father was a Greek.”
We should be horrified by this false accusation of hypocrisy attributed to Paul. I ask, has anyone read the book of Galatians? Paul was not able to do it; the Spirit of the Lord would not have allowed him to circumcise Timothy. Or do we think that Satan retains some control over the chosen servants of God? If that were so, none of us would be able to become a bond-slave of the Lord. If the servants of our Lord are so weak and insecure, how could they face and overcome persecution or martyrdom without repudiating the faith?
It has been suggested to me that Paul is excused, for in 1Corinthians 9:22 he says, “I have become all things to all men, that I may by all means save some.” This is true in principle, if you apply it to yourself, but there are limits that believers should not cross, because if we do, those whom you are trying to win for Christ may rightfully think that they have won you.
Are we also to believe Galatians 2:11-15, in which Paul (conveniently forgetting what he said in 1Corinthians 9:22) allegedly rebuked Peter. “For Peter was not straightforward about the truth of the gospel.” If so, we may easily get the impression that hypocrisy was widespread among the apostles. If that is true (and I do not believe that it is,) what hope is there for us? So you see, Satan’s concealed or subtle schemes are design to discourage “our hope of glory” by hindering our repentance toward God and trapping the unwary.
I know that some believers, and I was almost one of them, take comfort over the sins of David and the alleged weakness of the Apostles to justify their own shortcomings. Believe me, if this is your thinking you are deluding yourself, for you have fallen into the comfort of Satan’s trap. Repentance of our shortcomings is the only way to escape the comforting captivity of Satan.

Levite · Dec 11, 2014

free spirit said:
Yes I understand, However you know the laws of the Torah, and Jesus was a Jew: therefore you can show me where He lied.

The laws are the laws. One keeps them regardless of what sort of "spirit" is within one (we don't believe in the Holy Spirit in the sense the Christians mean the term), because they are laws. Is it better to observe the commandments with focused intention, understanding them, and doing them purely out of a love of God? Sure, of course. But one observes the commandments anyhow, even if one cannot muster up focused intention, or complete understanding, or purely from a love of God.

It's dandy to say that v'ahavta et Hashem elokechah (you shall love Hashem your God...) and v'ahavta l'reyecha kamocha (you shall love your fellow as you love yourself) are the two most important commandments, but we don't reckon commandments like that, not in true practice. Because it can't work that way. If you say those two are primary and everything else is secondary, what you end up with is either people saying, "Well, I'm working on loving God and my fellows; once I master those, maybe I'll quit stealing and murdering." Or saying, "But I love God, and I love my fellows, so I don't really need to keep kosher or keep Shabbat."

There's a reason that God gave us 613 commandments, and included in them were ways to atone for failing to keep them or for breaking them. Because you try to observe all of them that you can, you know you're going to fail at some and have to atone for them, but you don't just cherry pick a couple that you think are really neat and then say everything else is just icing on the cake.

And that's not, of course, even getting into the fact that the two v'ahavtas are unquantifiable at the literal, surface meaning. It is impossible to set a minimum standard of observance for a feeling or an outlook. Of course those commandments are important-- they represent spiritual guidelines and points of inspiration (and, of course, the Rabbis do designate quantifiable actions associated with them that can be fulfilled). But they cannot, on their own, stand in place of the whole Torah.

Even Hillel the Elder, when he was famously asked to teach the whole Torah while standing on one leg, and quoted "v'ahavta l'reyecha kamocha [you shall love your fellow as you love yourself], that is the Torah--" followed it up by noting, "--the rest is commentary, now go and learn it." He is not speaking literally-- that that one commandment is, in fact, the whole Torah. But that by learning all the other commandments and observing them through the lens of that one, we understand better how to live a life of full Torah observance.

And, while we're at it, one studies Torah, and immerses oneself in learning the laws in order to better observe them. One doesn't simply become observant because of having this or that spirit in one's heart, or this or that kind of inspiration. The laws will guide a person to spirituality, and spirituality will help one observe better, but one doesn't just spontaneously become observant and effective in fulfilling the commandments by feeling a certain way.

Kolibri · Dec 12, 2014

Acts 16:3 - Object Lesson in Reasonableness

Timothy's circumcision was not for the benefit of the Jewish Christians, it was so the non-Christian Jews would not dismiss Timothy out-of-hand, thus preventing him from being effective in preaching and teaching them. In the non-Christian Jew's mind, Timothy would still be unclean. Paul and Timothy were only taking into account the sensibilities of those who have not accepted the Christ yet. Thus as he said in 1 Co 9:20, "To the Jews I became as a Jew; to those under law I became as under law, though I myself am not under law, in order to gain those under law."

Circumcision was verified as not binding for Christians, but in this case it was to the advantage of the preaching work to not offend those they were preaching to. It was a case of Paul showing reasonableness regarding non-believers. If I was preaching in a Jewish community I would adjust to eat kosher, so as to not offend them while I was there.

Same argument of reasonableness was made for within the Christian congregations, when discussing meat sold at the meat market after it was formally used in idol worship. Nothing was inherently wrong with the meat, but some former idol-worshipers would have sensitive consciences and we would not want to disturb them by being brazen. Where permitable we carry the burden of other people's sensitivities. On the other hand, those who are sensitive should not insist on their standard for other Christians.

Regarding Timothy's circumcision, it would have been a different story if there was a directive NOT to get circumcised. No, the ruling was it was no longer binding, not that it was no longer permitted.

Desert Snake · Dec 12, 2014

free spirit said:
He was not far from the kingdom of God, that meant that he was not yet in the Kingdom of God.
Yes to love God and thy neighbour encompasses all of the law of God. That is what Paul was saying. True Christians do not abolish the law, for by obeying the principal commandment they establish the law. However we can only love God and our neighbour if we have the Holy Spirit. Any other way it is a hit and miss affair. I hope the following gives you more understanding. We read in
John 3:1-21: “Now there was a man of the Pharisees, named Nicodemus, a ruler of the Jews; this man came to Jesus by night, and said to Him, ‘Rabbi, we know that You have come from God as a teacher, for no one can do these signs that You do unless God is with Him.’”
Without realising it, Nicodemus had made a very important confession of faith to Jesus, by saying, they knew that Jesus had come from God as a teacher. By saying that, he demonstrated that he and others were believing and able to see the Kingdom of God in Jesus, for they recognised that God was performing miracles through Him. Jesus in turn confirmed that Nicodemus and others where able to see the Kingdom, for He answered, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the Kingdom of God.” (Jesus’ words can also be understood to say; only a believer can see what you said.)
Unfortunately, Nicodemus did not recognise Jesus’ answer as a confirmation of his ability to see the Kingdom, for he was thrown completely out of balance because he could only think of having to be born again from his mother’s womb. Jesus however, in correcting Nicodemus’s misunderstanding, moved to the next spiritual transition by saying, “Truly, truly, I say to you unless one is born of water and the spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.” (Jesus’ words can also be understood to say; unless one is converted and repents he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God.)
It is obvious that Nicodemus had no trouble seeing the Kingdom of God in Jesus because he was a God-fearing man, honestly believing in the existence of God, trusting his spirit, which was born again as a believer through his Jewish religion.
Therefore we can be certain that all who earnestly believe and have a fear of God, regardless from which doctrine their faith was born, has the capability of seeing the Kingdom of God. (Remember the Roman centurion, Matthew 8:10 and the Canaanite woman, Matthew 15:27 - 28.)
Now to understand the transitional meaning of being “born of water and the spirit”, one has to consider that the Lord is telling us that a conversion of our beliefs and attitude has to take place through our immersion in the water of the word, and to live our lives according to our new understanding of godliness which comes from that word. That is to say, this conversion has to move us from a faith based on religions doctrines to a lifestyle of godliness so that we might eventually share His Divine character.

I don't believe that. I'm not sure what Paul meant if he inferred that, but it doesn't match traditional Hebraic religious belief in my opinion, and why, as well, would Jesus mention the Covenant and other topics, if that were the 'whole law'.

Desert Snake · Dec 12, 2014

Oh I see, "encompasses" here doesn't mean "is".
I think you might be getting that meaning incorrect.

free spirit · Dec 12, 2014

roger1440 said:
Indirectly what you are saying is that Jews need to read Christian scripture to understand Jewish scripture.

No, you can see that Christianity dips into the Old Testament often to explain a point. The Jews never accepted Jesus despite the fact that Jesus is all over their book. The worse blind are those who do not want to see.

Kolibri · Dec 12, 2014

Galatians 2:11-14; 2 Peter 3:15

Why shouldn't Paul have called out Peter for this pretense of class distinctions within the congregation? Peter was not Jesus. Just because he was an Apostle and one of the Twelve does not mean that after receiving the Holy Spirit at Pentecost 33 C.E. that he too became without sin and incapable of bad judgement. In this we learn that Peter was a humble man, willing to accept correction, even reproof. His calling Paul "our beloved brother" is also an example of Proverbs 28:23 being true.

"Whoever reproves a man will afterward find more favor Than someone who flatters with his tongue."

free spirit · Dec 12, 2014

disciple said:
Oh I see, "encompasses" here doesn't mean "is".
I think you might be getting that meaning incorrect.

My dictionary says that "encompass" mean contain, include. I used it to mean "include" I think it fits well where it is.

roger1440 · Dec 12, 2014

free spirit said:
No, you can see that Christianity dips into the Old Testament often to explain a point. The Jews never accepted Jesus despite the fact that Jesus is all over their book. The worse blind are those who do not want to see.

There are around 13 million Jews right now around the world. When we add to that number all the Jews who had existed during the last 2000 years, we end up with a heck of a lot of Jews. Paul is the only Jew that understood the Old Testament? All these Jews should accept Paul on his word. A man who never met Jesus. A man who knows nothing about Jesus before he died. A man who can't even quote Jesus. Jesus must have said and done something with his life, but Paul doesn't seem to know anything about it.

free spirit · Dec 12, 2014

Levite said:
The laws are the laws. One keeps them regardless of what sort of "spirit" is within one (we don't believe in the Holy Spirit in the sense the Christians mean the term), because they are laws. Is it better to observe the commandments with focused intention, understanding them, and doing them purely out of a love of God? Sure, of course. But one observes the commandments anyhow, even if one cannot muster up focused intention, or complete understanding, or purely from a love of God.

It's dandy to say that v'ahavta et Hashem elokechah (you shall love Hashem your God...) and v'ahavta l'reyecha kamocha (you shall love your fellow as you love yourself) are the two most important commandments, but we don't reckon commandments like that, not in true practice. Because it can't work that way. If you say those two are primary and everything else is secondary, what you end up with is either people saying, "Well, I'm working on loving God and my fellows; once I master those, maybe I'll quit stealing and murdering." Or saying, "But I love God, and I love my fellows, so I don't really need to keep kosher or keep Shabbat."

There's a reason that God gave us 613 commandments, and included in them were ways to atone for failing to keep them or for breaking them. Because you try to observe all of them that you can, you know you're going to fail at some and have to atone for them, but you don't just cherry pick a couple that you think are really neat and then say everything else is just icing on the cake.

And that's not, of course, even getting into the fact that the two v'ahavtas are unquantifiable at the literal, surface meaning. It is impossible to set a minimum standard of observance for a feeling or an outlook. Of course those commandments are important-- they represent spiritual guidelines and points of inspiration (and, of course, the Rabbis do designate quantifiable actions associated with them that can be fulfilled). But they cannot, on their own, stand in place of the whole Torah.

Even Hillel the Elder, when he was famously asked to teach the whole Torah while standing on one leg, and quoted "v'ahavta l'reyecha kamocha [you shall love your fellow as you love yourself], that is the Torah--" followed it up by noting, "--the rest is commentary, now go and learn it." He is not speaking literally-- that that one commandment is, in fact, the whole Torah. But that by learning all the other commandments and observing them through the lens of that one, we understand better how to live a life of full Torah observance.

And, while we're at it, one studies Torah, and immerses oneself in learning the laws in order to better observe them. One doesn't simply become observant because of having this or that spirit in one's heart, or this or that kind of inspiration. The laws will guide a person to spirituality, and spirituality will help one observe better, but one doesn't just spontaneously become observant and effective in fulfilling the commandments by feeling a certain way.

Thank you, It is the best explanation to date about what does mean to be a Torah observing man.
By the above explanation I understand that the believer has to live a life of full Torah observance to please God. That is good if human were able to fully observe the Torah. As you know the law once is broken, is broken and there is a penalty for that.
Let me explain the matter this way: Are you acquainted with all of the laws of your country in order to observe them? and if not Why not? No, you do not know all of the laws, but you live your life unafraid because you know what is just, and morally correct, you do thing all in good faith, right! With God is better than that, for He is with you guiding you. I am sorry I cannot explain it any better.

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