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How is Evolution compatible with Hinduism?

Acintya_Ash

Bhakta
Hare Krishna!

Wikipedia says ""In India, Hindus widely accept the theory of biological evolution. In a survey, 77% of respondents in India agreed that enough scientific evidence exists to support Charles Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, and 88% of God-believing people said they believe in evolution as well.""

I wonder how theists accept Evolution? I mean the Darwinian Evolution framework needs no God or even if such kind of Evolution happened in the presence of God.. doesn't it make God a straw man?

Personally i don't accept Darwinian Evolution since its proposed by scientific community which has no knowledge of Soul. I believe in Evolution/Devolution of Consciousness (Mind) to higher/lower species of Life.

As Hinduism believes in Reincarnation by Transmigration of Soul, Where does Evolution really Fit In?

What are your opinions/beliefs in this regard?

Thanks in advance for the upcoming responses
KA1_013.jpg
 

Atman

Member
Darwinian evolution deals with the origin of biodiversity, it does not deal at all with the creation of the universe, or even with the transition of chemistry to biology for that matter. Darwinian evolution does not contradict the idea that a creator deity exists, it only contradicts very literalist interpretations of particular creation myths.

Personally i don't accept Darwinian Evolution since its proposed by scientific community which has no knowledge of Soul. I believe in Evolution/Devolution of Consciousness (Mind) to higher/lower species of Life.
The existence or non-existence of the soul, has no relevancy to whether or not Darwinian evolution is true. There is a large bulk of evidence to support Darwinian Evolution, in the forms of fossil, DNA, and contemporary observations of evolution in nature. Here's a nice link on a lizard species that when introduced to a new island rapidly evolved to have a new head and gut structure in just a matter of decades http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2008/04/080421-lizard-evolution.html
 

तत्त्वप्रह्व

स्वभावस्थं निरावेशम्
Wikipedia says ""In India, Hindus widely accept the theory of biological evolution. In a survey, 77% of respondents in India agreed that enough scientific evidence exists to support Charles Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, and 88% of God-believing people said they believe in evolution as well.""
It is not surprising as this is taught in schools as a fully established theory with no missing-links whatsoever.

I wonder how theists accept Evolution?
As far i know, this is not accepted in the Sri Madhva's and Sri Ramanuja's traditions as this evidently contradicts vedic view that Manu, who was certainly not a monkey, was the originator of human-kind and because it also contradicts the pauranic view of sarga creation that details the creation of plants & trees (with various species), animals (various species), and finally man (one specie) in that order but not one leading to the other. So humans did indeed appear after monkeys, but not from them.

As Hinduism believes in Reincarnation by Transmigration of Soul, Where does Evolution really Fit In?

It is possible that the aatma moves across these various species (referred to yonis which are of 8400000 types) based on karma. There is evidence in the shastras for life in plants which can sense and feel but expression is limited due to predominance of tamas as it is held that plants appeared during the process of creation right after the avarana of tamas. Their classification in the Bhagavata Purana is interesting in that plants are considered as उत्स्रोक्सः as the flow of food-to-nourishment in them is vertically upwards, in animals horizontally, and among humans downwards and upwards. The purana continues to draw parallels with the transmigration of the aatma too - those that were born as plants almost always progress upwards into better yonis, those that were born as animals often have more births as animals and then either move upwards to human births or downwards toward births as plants, humans being the topmost in the transmigration cycle can either perform sadhana and exit the cycle or almost inevitably fall down into births in lower species such as that of animals or plants.

श्रीकृष्णार्पणमस्तु ।
 

Pleroma

philalethist
Hinduism does not allow any sensible discussions of Big Bang or Evolution by Natural Selection since it considers reality to be just a state of mind called the Jagrat state. The argument of Hinduism is neither Young earth creationism or Intelligent Design instead its more like Simulated reality, Matrix or Brain in a vat kind of an argument. The world that we are seeing do not exist independent of us, its all a big dream, an illusion. There is no difference between night dreams and reality. Both Science and Hinduism are true since Advaita accepts the existence of different levels of reality but their epistemology is fundamentally a different one.

It is important to remember that Hinduism is a metaphysical religion and it supports the doctrine of Emanationism for the origin of cosmos.

Chapter I — The Creation of Virat

1 In the beginning all this verily was Atman only, one and without a second. There was nothing else that winked. He bethought Himself: "Let Me now create the worlds."

2 He created these worlds: Ambhah, the world of water—bearing clouds, Marichi, the world of the solar rays, Mara, the world of mortals and Ap, the world of waters. Yon is Ambhah, above heaven; heaven is its support. The Marichis are the interspace. Mara is the earth. What is underneath is Ap.

3 He bethought Himself: "Here now are the worlds. Let Me now create world—guardians." Right from the waters He drew forth the Person in the form of a lump and gave Him a shape.

4 He brooded over Him. From Him, so brooded over, the mouth was separated out, as with an egg; form the month, the organ of speech; from speech, fire, the controlling deity of the organ. Then the nostrils were separated out; from the nostrils, the organ of breath; from breath, air, the controlling deity of the organ. Then the eyes were separated out; from the eyes, the organ of sight; from sight, the sun, the controlling deity of the organ. Then the ears were separated out; from the ears, the organ of hearing; from hearing, the quarters of space, the controlling deity of the organ. Then the skin was separated out; from the skin, hairs, the organ of touch; from the hairs, plants and trees, air the controlling deity of the organs. Then the heart was separated out; from the heart, the organ of the mind; from the mind, the moon, the controlling deity of the organ. Then the navel was separated out; from the navel, the organ of the apana; from the apana, Death, Varuna, the controlling deity of the organ.

Then the virile member was separated out; from the virile member, semen, the organ of generation; from the semen, the waters, the controlling deity of the organ.

Chapter II—Cosmic Powers in the Human Body

1 These deities, thus created, fell into this great ocean. He subjected the Person to hunger and thirst. They said to Him: "Find out for us an abode wherein being established we may eat food."

2—3 He brought them a cow. They said: "But this is not enough for us." He brought them a horse. They said: "This, too, is not enough for us." He brought them a person. The deities said: "Ah, this is well done, indeed." Therefore a person is verily something well done. He said to the deities: "Now enter your respective abodes."

4 The deity fire became the organ of speech and entered the mouth. Air became breath and entered the nostrils. The sun became sight and entered the eyes; the quarters of space became hearing and entered the ears. Plants and trees, the deity of air, became hairs and entered the skin. The moon became the mind and entered the heart. Death became the apana and entered the navel. The waters became semen and entered the virile member.

5 Hunger and thirst said to the Creator: "For the two of us find an abode also." He said to them: "I assign the two of you to these deities; I make you co—sharers with them." Therefore to whatsoever deity an oblation is made, hunger and thirst became sharers in it.

Chapter III—The Embodiment of the Supreme Self

1 He bethought Himself: "Here now are the worlds and the world—guardians. Let Me cerate food for them."

2 He brooded over the waters. From the waters, thus brooded over, there emerged a condensed form. The form that so emerged is indeed food.

3 The food so created wished to flee away. He sought to grasp it with speech. But He was not able to grasp it with speech. If, indeed, He has grasped it with speech, one would then have been satisfied by merely uttering the word food

4—10 The Creator sought to grasp it with the breath. But He was not able to grasp it with the breath. If, indeed, He had grasped it with the breath, one would then have been satisfied by merely smelling food. He sought to grasp it with the eye. But He was not able to grasp it with the eye. If, indeed, He had grasped it with the eye, one would then have been satisfied by merely seeing food. He sought to grasp it with the ear. But He was not able to grasp it with the ear. If, indeed, He had grasped it with the ear, one would then have been satisfied by merely hearing of food. He sought to grasp it with the skin. But He was not able to grasp it with the skin. If, indeed, He had grasped it with the skin, one would then have been satisfied by merely touching food. He sought to grasp it with the mind. But He was not able to grasp it with the mind. If, indeed, He had grasped it with the mind, one would then have been satisfied by merely thinking of food. He sought to grasp it with the virile member. But He was not able to grasp it with the virile member. If, indeed, He had grasped it with the virile member, one would then have been satisfied by merely emitting food. He sought to grasp it with the apana and He grasped it. This grasper of food is what vayu, air or prana is. This vayu is what lives on food.

11 He bethought Himself: "How could this exist without Me?" Then He said to Himself: "Which way shall I enter it?" he said to Himself further: "If speech is uttered by the organ of speech, if smelling is done by the breath, seeing by the eyes, hearing by the ears, touching by the skin, thinking by the mind, eating by the apana and the emission of semen by the virile member, them who am I?"

12 So, piercing the end, the Lord entered through that door. That door is known as the vidriti, the cleft. This is the place of bliss. Atman, thus embodied, has three abodes, three conditions of sleep. This is one abode, this is another, this is the third.

13 Having been born as the jiva, He realised the elements as one with Himself. What else here would one desire to speak about? He perceived this very person as the all—pervading Brahman. He said: "Ah, I have seen It." (Idam dra - This (I) saw)

14 Therefore He is called Idandra. Idandra, indeed is His name. Him who is Idandra they call indirectly Indra. For the gods appear to be fond of cryptic epithets; yea, the gods appear to be fond of cryptic epithets (paroksha priyaahi iva devah).

- Aitareya Upanishad
 

Maya3

Well-Known Member
I see no contradiction at all. Just because science don´t know about, or don´t understand soul or Self does not mean that it is not there.

If you think of the Big Bang as a very condensed ball of energy that is spreading out into the universe as it is expanding you have pretty similar story to our faith.
We are all one connected source, we keep moving along due to our karma and forget that inside we are the source, don´t understand that we are still part of it and have never been separate in the first place.


Maya
 

Atman

Member
Hinduism does not allow any sensible discussions of Big Bang or Evolution by Natural Selection since it considers reality to be just a state of mind called the Jagrat state. The argument of Hinduism is neither Young earth creationism or Intelligent Design instead its more like Simulated reality, Matrix or Brain in a vat kind of an argument. The world that we are seeing do not exist independent of us, its all a big dream, an illusion. There is no difference between night dreams and reality. Both Science and Hinduism are true since Advaita accepts the existence of different levels of reality but their epistemology is fundamentally a different one.
This is only true of the Kevala Advaita doctrine of Shankaracharya, and even this doctrine doesn't advocate complete disregard for the discussion of natural phenomenon. This kind of reminds me of the story about the student of an Advaitan guru who tried embracing an angry elephant after he had learned all was God. There are degrees of reality this is true, but that does not mean these different degrees of reality don't abide by a set of particular laws (eg: angry elephants will hurt you if you try to hug them, complex organisms arise from the evolution of simpler organisms)
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
It poses no problem to me since the only thing I subscribe to is existence of a substrate (Brahman) to all things in the universe. From there Physics, Big-Bang, Biology and Evolution can happily take over.

I feel Hindus here have satisfactorily answered the OP. Happy about it. More would come. The only problem is the Daksha, Kashyapa, or the Manu story (God created man in his own image and Adam was the first. God created Eve from a rib of Adam). :D
 
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StarryNightshade

Spiritually confused Jew
Premium Member
What are your opinions/beliefs in this regard?

Simple: evolution deals with the natural world, away from cosmology or abiogenesis. It simply shows evidence on how humans, as we know, arrived to their current state. It does not contradict God, religion, or the soul in any way. The only ones who say it does are hardline anti-theists and anti-religionists.
 

LuisDantas

Aura of atheification
Premium Member
Isn't it rather the other way around, in that Hinduism does not contradict Evolution?

Personally i don't accept Darwinian Evolution since its proposed by scientific community which has no knowledge of Soul. I believe in Evolution/Devolution of Consciousness (Mind) to higher/lower species of Life.

I am not aware of any conflict between that belief and the Theory of Evolution and its plentiful evidence.

Simple: evolution deals with the natural world, away from cosmology or abiogenesis. It simply shows evidence on how humans, as we know, arrived to their current state. It does not contradict God, religion, or the soul in any way. The only ones who say it does are hardline anti-theists and anti-religionists.

Don't you mean hardline Creationists instead? We did not create this controversy, far as I know.
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think the important question is when evolution took place. Did it take place in the previous Satya Yuga? Did it take place during the beginning of the Mantavarma? Did it take place in the beginning of the Day of Brahman? Or did it take place in the beginning of the lifetime of Brahma?

I think that the amount of time that is there in the Lifetime of Brahma gives us Hindus flexibility in reconciling the literal interpretation of the scriptures as well as evolution. Of course, I take a more spiritual understanding of evolution.

I haven't read all the scriptures (but I plan to go to a Guru after my studies) but I do think that there is a verse somewhere where it says that we all had to go through animal and plant bodies in order to get to a human form.

I don't believe in the ridiculous ideas that Hanuman-ji supported evolution or that the Dasavatara supports evolution.
 

George-ananda

Advaita Vedanta, Theosophy, Spiritualism
Premium Member
Evolution and Hinduism are compatible in my thought. Evolution just describes the physical processes that occurred. I personally believe evolution was fostered by nature beings/spirits that worked with the elements of earth to find ways to produce more and more advanced life-forms. Evolution is describing what the process looks like from a physical-only perspective.
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
@OP,

The only "Hindus" that I have encountered who discount evolution en masse are the Gaudiya Vaishnava-s.
However, it's perfectly a-okay with all other Hinduism-s, since Dharma is not a doctrinal, credal entity that has such a highly organized centralization of authority, power, and influence. If a Village Hindu were asked about evolution, he or she would most likely have no idea what you are talking about, but that doesn't mean he or she would discount evolution -- it would just be irrelevant (yes, here's that word again!) to the person. Evolution does not hinder nor dismantle Hinduism, and thus any questions on compatibility are invalid for computation since "Hinduism" is not bound by such centralizations. And by the way, this subject has been discussed on RF countless times before (twice this year already, I believe).
 
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Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@OP,

Evolution is not compatible with Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Haha, 'tis true!

However, it's perfectly a-okay with all other Hinduism-s, since Dharma is not a doctrinal, credal entity that has such a highly organized centralization of authority, power, and influence. If a Village Hindu were asked about evolution, he or she would most likely have no idea what you are talking about, but that doesn't mean he or she would discount evolution -- it would just be irrelevant (yes, here's that word again!) to the person. Evolution does not hinder nor dismantle Hinduism, and thus any questions on compatibility are invalid for computation since "Hinduism" is not bound by such centralizations. And by the way, this subject has been discussed on RF countless times before (twice this year already, I believe).

Evolution is not compatible with ISKCON. Could you explain how it's not compatible with Gaudiya Vaishnavism?
 

Chakra

Well-Known Member
Premium Member

I've known many Gaudiya Vaishnava people who believe in evolution, some of them are even in ISKCON.

The way I see it is that Swami Prabhupada argued vehemently against evolution because he thought it was a threat to theism. If (let's just say hypothetically) everyone who believed in evolution also believed in God, Prabhupada would have no problem whatsoever. This is just my opinion.
 
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Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
I've known many Gaudiya Vaishnava people who believe in evolution, some of them are even in ISKCON.

The way I see it is that Swami Prabhupada argued vehemently against evolution because he thought it was a threat to theism. If (let's just say hypothetically) the everyone who believed in evolution also believed in God, Prabhupada would have no problem whatsoever. This is just my opinion.
I understand that, though---truly, I do. All I did was go along with the logic of the original post, concentrating mostly on the term, "compatible". And I articulated that the sublimity of Dharma remains untarnished by evolution; Dharma is so much more than just a belief in God (and as a polytheist I must ask: whose God?; what God?; why a capital "G"?). Questions of compatibility, when seen contextually, are a carry-over from different paradigms. Did Bharatiya mathematicians, when making strides into uncharted territories, drop their salutations to the gods? No, because the acknowledging of the gods was a civic duty for them, a duty that remained detached ... irrelevant to their understanding of the spiritual realms from the material worlds. Should be likewise in this case, right?
 

ratikala

Istha gosthi
namaskaram poeticus ji


@OP,

The only "Hindus" that I have encountered who discount evolution en masse are the Gaudiya Vaishnava-s.

GrrR , ..Gnash Gnash!!! .......you deleated , .....''Evolution is not compatible with Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Haha, 'tis true!'' ......



Ha!, .... tis delluded noncence !!!

Tis true that prabhupada rejects a stand alone thoery of evolution , but not so true that transmigration from speceis to species is not accepted as a part of our progressional path !!!

Hehe , ...remember the story of the young brahmin preist who repeatedly went to his Guru to gain initiation into the chanting of a mantra by which he may sacrifice and consume meat , .....repeatedly he asked his guru , ...Please give me the special mantra where by I might sacrifice meat , .....and repeatedly the Guru denied the existance of such a mantra , ......untill one day the young Brahmin began again to entreat his master , ...please give me the mantra ,.....
this time the Guru said Ok , Ok , ... if you want this mantra so badly I will give it to you , ....
this is what you must do , first you must take your knife and hold it to the throught of the beast and as you prepair to slit the animals throught wou must wisper these words in its ear , .....I kill you in this life time , you will kill me in the next ! ......the moral of this story incase it escapes you is that those who do not make effort to overcome their animalistic tendancys will take birth as an animal in his subsequent life , ......
and as I am sure Srila prabhupada ji would agree , ...this human birth is meant for the development of God consciousness , not for gratification of the sences .



If a Village Hindu were asked about evolution, he or she would most likely have no idea what you are talking about, but that doesn't mean he or she would discount evolution , .........
.........And by the way, this subject has been discussed on RF countless times before (twice this year already, I believe).

of course not , but your dearest country cousin here , ......may not have even heard of Darwin , but none the less the transmigration of souls is not a foreign concept in the least , ....

so what is your problem ? ....you want to diss Gaudiyas again ? .....? ....or you just hope I will throw more prasad in your direction :p
 

Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
namaskaram poeticus ji




GrrR , ..Gnash Gnash!!! .......you deleated , .....''Evolution is not compatible with Gaudiya Vaishnavism. Haha, 'tis true!'' ......



Ha!, .... tis delluded noncence !!!

Tis true that prabhupada rejects a stand alone thoery of evolution , but not so true that transmigration from speceis to species is not accepted as a part of our progressional path !!!

Hehe , ...remember the story of the young brahmin preist who repeatedly went to his Guru to gain initiation into the chanting of a mantra by which he may sacrifice and consume meat , .....repeatedly he asked his guru , ...Please give me the special mantra where by I might sacrifice meat , .....and repeatedly the Guru denied the existance of such a mantra , ......untill one day the young Brahmin began again to entreat his master , ...please give me the mantra ,.....
this time the Guru said Ok , Ok , ... if you want this mantra so badly I will give it to you , ....
this is what you must do , first you must take your knife and hold it to the throught of the beast and as you prepair to slit the animals throught wou must wisper these words in its ear , .....I kill you in this life time , you will kill me in the next ! ......the moral of this story incase it escapes you is that those who do not make effort to overcome their animalistic tendancys will take birth as an animal in his subsequent life , ......
and as I am sure Srila prabhupada ji would agree , ...this human birth is meant for the development of God consciousness , not for gratification of the sences .





of course not , but your dearest country cousin here , ......may not have even heard of Darwin , but none the less the transmigration of souls is not a foreign concept in the least , ....

so what is your problem ? ....you want to diss Gaudiyas again ? .....? ....or you just hope I will throw more prasad in your direction :p
No one wants to diss anyone. It was only a jab at the OP---I presume he's Gaudiya. Also, the OP articulates that he doesn't see evolution as being compatible with Hinduism (more specifically, "Personally i don't accept Darwinian Evolution since its proposed by scientific community which has no knowledge of Soul"). Therefore, I wrote that the only Astika-s that I know who have held evolution as incompatible en masse have been of the Gaudiya camp. Gaudiya-s have every right to believe in what they believe. I could not care less, really. It's just that most Hindus, especially in Bharat, don't have any problems with evolution; and the OP should not worry about that since the notion that evolution destroys theistic aspirations of Dharmists is an ideal that is ultimately unwarranted, because Dharmists are of different epistemic and ontological backgrounds, experiencing the world differently than members of religious camps that have historically (and largely) been hesitant about evolution. That's it. Nothing more.
 
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Poeticus

| abhyAvartin |
Revisiting the portion of the OP that acts as a background for the OP's premise:
Wikipedia says ""In India, Hindus widely accept the theory of biological evolution. In a survey, 77% of respondents in India agreed that enough scientific evidence exists to support Charles Darwin’s Theory of Evolution, and 88% of God-believing people said they believe in evolution as well.""
...that's because Bharatiya Hindus, though often placatingly impotent, know better. Most of them know that bombing abortion clinics is wrong. Most of them know that irrationally pressuring school systems to teach about creationism is wrong. Most of them know that the stories of Vishnu's avatar-s aren't meant to be taken literally as if they were textualistic. Most of them know that holding placards at funerals of how fallen soldiers are going to hell is wrong. Most of them know that evolution doesn't damage the sublimity of Dharma---not in the slightest. Again, I declare: how these stats are alarming or concerning escapes me entirely, a worry that is misplaced and utterly unnecessary.
 
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