Chinese police officers execute man for refusing to shave

Wu Wei said:

Don't argue chinese history with me sonny...you'll loose

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Doesn't look like you're winning to me. To me it looks like you've got universal opposition.

A lot of people are not very friendly to chinese apologetics at the moment. You're wasting your time.

Wu Wei said:

As for Tibet my unknowledgeable friend there was an agreement between the Ming Emperor and the Tibetan Dali Lama which stated that the Emperor of China would recognize the Dalai Lama as the religions leader of China and the Dalai Lama would recognize the Emperor of China as the ruler of Tibet.

Don't argue Chinese history with me sonny...you'll loose

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Can you provide a source for this, or indeed a source for any of the absurd claims that you're making?

There is nothing about Tibet and the Ming Dynasty on this timeline

602 Namri Songtsen, lord of Yarlung, becomes the first king of Tibet. Namri Songtsen (also known as Namri Lontsen), united the Tibetan central states at the start of the 7th century.

620-49 Reign of King Songtsen Gampo; Tibet grows into an empire and Lhasa becomes the capital city.

821 China-Tibet Peace Treaty: "Tibetans shall be happy in Tibet and Chinese shall be happy in China". The peace treaty was an acknowledgement of stalemate between the two countries after 200 years of Sino-Tibetan conflict. The treaty stated that the Chinese recognized Tibetans as equals and Tibet as a separate state with its own inviolable territory. The treaty was engraved on a stone pillar in front of the Jokhang temple in Lhasa.

842 King Langdarma assassinated; Tibet fragments into several states and was not unified again for 400 years.

1261 Tibet reunited with the Grand Lama of Sakya as king.

1717 Dzungar Mongols invade Tibet.

1721 Qing emperor declares Tibet a tributary state; first Amban, the official Qing representative, is sent to Lhasa

1854-56 Nepal defeats Tibet; peace treaty requires Tibet to pay tribute.

1904 British troops under Colonel Younghusband enter Tibet and occupy Lhasa. The British feared that Russia would use Tibet as an invasion route to India and were worried that the Russians would take the place Mongols had once had as rulers of Tibet.

1910-12 A Qing army led by General Zhao Erfeng invades and occupies Tibet, causing the Dalai Lama and Tibetan government officials to flee.

1912 Last Qing emperor abdicates; Republic of China claims Mongolia and Tibet. In April the Chinese troops surrendered and were removed from Tibet by the end of the year and in July the Dalai Lama returned to Tibet.

1913 Dalai Lama proclaims Tibet independent; paper money and coins issued. Mongolia and Tibet conclude a treaty of mutual recognition. With both Britain and China making claims on Tibet a tripartite conference was held in October 1913 at Simila in India on Tibet’s status involving Tibet, China and Britain. It was here that Tibet claimed independence under the leadership of the Dalai Lama.

1914 Britain and Tibet agree to a treaty signed in Simla, establishing the status of the Indian-Tibetan border from Bhutan to Burma known as the McMahon Line. India still regards this as the official border today, but China does not as it does not recognize Tibet’s treaty with Britain.
1918 Tibetan army, led by British-trained officers, defeats Chinese army. Tibet and China sign a peace treaty; China refuses to ratify treaty.

1933 13th Dalai Lama dies; Reting Rimpoche selected as Tibetan regent.

1937 Britain publishes Simla Convention and begins enforcing McMahon Line.

1940 14th Dalai Lama is enthroned; Chinese delegation attends ceremony.

1943 Britain affirms that Tibet is "already self-governing and determined to retain [its] independence".

1947-49 Tibetan Trade Mission travels to India, Britain, U.S., and China; the mission is received by the British Prime Minister Attlee. However neither the US or Britain consented to recognize Tibet as an independent country.

1949 People's Republic of China is proclaimed by Chinese Communist Party.

1950 Radio Beijing announce: "The task of the People's Liberation Army for 1950 is to liberate Tibet." 40,000 Chinese troops invade Tibet in October, unprovoked and with no accepted legal basis for claims of sovereignty. Fifteen-year-old Tenzin Gyatso is given full powers to rule as the 14th Dalai Lama - the Tibetans' spiritual and temporal leader.

The Tibetan’s response was that they did not want to be ‘liberated’ and the government in Lhasa appealed to both Britain and India for assistance. The Government of India at that time could not afford to fight the Chinese in Tibet and Britain was sceptical that China could take Tibet by military force, and therefore advised Tibet not to provoke the Chinese by making any bold declarations of independence.

1951 China undertakes 17-Point Agreement to refrain from interfering with Tibet's government and society following negotiation by the Dalai Lama. The treaty was signed by the Tibetans on 23 May 1951. The Chinese promised not to "alter the existing political system in Tibet" and that "in matters relating to various reforms in Tibet there would be no compulsion on the part of the central authorities".

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For the record, I have a PhD in history. While I admit that I didn't specialize in Asian history, I do know how to study history and evaluate sources for objectivity and neutrality, while you probably have been spoon-fed everything by your government handlers.

The CCP is expanding at all costs, and a large part due to population, decreasing resources, and many aspects. The agreement was not as you think with the Ming Dynasty, you may want to rad chuk yeshe kundro and become educated in it. The events of the late 50's was a result of the CCP movement. Before that it was Tibetan hopes of growth in a hard region they lvied in far before Chinese aspects.

I do not believe it is possible for some to understand events in the late 50's, except when you use the emotion and tears of those still alive.

The CCP also does not represent all Chinese people, keep in mind the events were fought on two fronts, but the Communist party gained power.

Many Tibetans died for beliefs and practice on their own lands. This is a factor. They didn't ask for liberation from a political created agenda outside their understanding. One day you were gathering barely bundles,, within 2 months you were turning a majority over to occupying soldiers.

Religion was oppressed. Not only native Tibetans , who some in eastern Tibetan regions married with those of Chinese origin, and shared Buddhist or other beliefs. Chinese practitioners saw beliefs become a historical show and tell for tourism within China itself.

However, in Buddhist views, we have to still have compassion. China was facing economic crises in some aspects. Over population, rising poverty (it still exists in much of china, and some conditions are still very poor). We don't want anyone to suffer, yet nor do we wish our own people. It is a tough situation.

China expanded under the CCP at all costs, claiming liberation, original rights over lands, and not only Tibet. While they didn't, they still made the promises of assisting growth, with intent to wean out existing population, and integrate it into their own. Later it was adjusted when things became more apparent globally. However because of trade, and money, it was over looked.

Don't confuse past unified trade of Tibet and China with rights to Tibet. Tibet has maintained it's individual ownership for a long period of time with some imperial blending, but the Chinese dynasty did not extend that time, the region of the snow was considered unimportant and not viable at that period.

Even in the time of Bon, to the beginning of Buddhism expansion, to Muslim and Mongolian invasion attempts, to the complete teaching and transmission of Vajrayana from india, to the Karmapas, then later Dalai yellow hats, It was maintained. Even with inter-kingdom marriages with china, it was not Chinese control.

Before the late 50's, Tibet was recognized as Tibet, and the CCP who gained control in china, claimed they would liberate the people of Tibet. Prior there was discussion with the Dalai lama to help internal modern growth of Tibet with a seventeen point agreement. China however did not keep with promises, so the need to claim liberation was put into place. Plus don't go but claimed maps, we already know how claims are incorrect. Mao Zedong, chairman Mao, who's ego over came compassion, called "Religion a poison". His lack of Dharma understanding a clear factor.

So compassion and wisdom comes in as factors. While the CCP violated agreements and needed to create a propaganda to convince it's own people of it's intent. China was suffering economic, population, and decreased religious aspirations. Keep in mind, while Buddhism is a large aspect of Tibet, it is not the only religion of Tibet, earlier practice still existed, including bon. Muslims remained in Tibet, and even lived at the foot hills of Lhasa.

The l habitants of Tibet, were attacked for beliefs, respect, and practices. Tibetans told to learn and speak Chinese. Families who owned land, had land taken with poor excuses. Many Tibetans become second rate citizens in their own lands. Railways built to increase incoming flow of Chinese mainland migrants, to begin the process of replacing Tibetans. A forced, systematic control, that is continuing in other areas.

No one from mainland china can understand what it is to Tibetans who became suppressed and second rate, or forced to cross to Nepal, Burma, Bhutan, and other areas to become refugees. To have respected teachers, like karmapas, Rinpoches and lamas escape due to fear of the threats against them, where their only defense is wisdom and compassion. OR schools split because of Chinese interference, and political blend to appease and try to keep peace, comes into play.

Keep in mind how many Tibetan Monasteries were destroyed. Out of thousands, Six remain. How many nuns and monks were killed, imprisoned, threatened. How many Tibetan citizens Threatened, killed, told not to speak Tibetan, to learn Chinese, to be Chinese, to give up Buddhist practices unless told to for appearance.

How is it justified?

The solution was to leave Tibet as it is, discuss sharing of common goals, needs of both people ,and a compassionate solution, not excuses. How many elders, teachers, and wise habitants were ignored? Unless you experienced it you can not understand the impact.

Yet as a result, Buddhism has grown and spread west in a stronger way, and hopefully it will help others grow, and some day, China will benefit once again more from Dharma rather then corrupt communist ideals. Then grow in a positive manner.