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What came before the Big Bang?

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Not in Buddhism thought and meditation practice. All things are impermanent except true conscious nature. However you can be afflicted by negative actions and a lack of clarity and enter a state of confusion during the transition.

The consciousness is not transformed when you die. Since the consciousness is not in your body, nor your brain. The brain acts more like a radio receiver.
That's not entirely correct. Yes, the first part of what you say above is the teaching, no doubt, but Buddhists need not take any teaching at face value or just because someone taught it as such-- thus my question should be valid within Buddhist circles. HHDL, for example, teaches that if the scriptures don't mesh with science, go with science.

It's the second part of the above that actually is not correct in that, even what might be part of one's consciousness might not be brought forward completely intact through rebirth. Plus even the whole concept of there being a cosmic consciousness (however worded) to begin with can be questioned.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
why would God want everything you have personally learned to be lost?
You're making an assumption that God really cares about what we may have learned during our lifetime. There are other ways of looking at this while still believing in God.
 

Yeshe Dondrub

Kagyupa OBT-Thubetan
That's not entirely correct. Yes, the first part of what you say above is the teaching, no doubt, but Buddhists need not take any teaching at face value or just because someone taught it as such-- thus my question should be valid within Buddhist circles. HHDL, for example, teaches that if the scriptures don't mesh with science, go with science.

It's the second part of the above that actually is not correct in that, even what might be part of one's consciousness might not be brought forward completely intact through rebirth. Plus even the whole concept of there being a cosmic consciousness (however worded) to begin with can be questioned.

Part also comes through experience and meditation. However the Dalai also uses the same teaching structure, there is most luckily an example on his website videos, may have to wean through them.

I am Kagyupa, Tenzin Gyatso is Gelugpa. I am stating our concept of it. You are confusing aspects of it.

In Buddhism, the true self, and all of us, have the Buddha nature, the enlightened state. The difference is due to cause and effect, others attributes in experience, many have a clouded concept, and can not see inward. We stride to remove those aspects and break the cycle of samsara. An enlightened being can choose to return. The consciousness and stream is not attached to any physical body. The brain is a receiver to consciousness, and as it develops, is able to handle the stream of consciousness. Teachings are reinforced. Aspects will carry through. If the body has physical issues it may prevent the flow.

However the perception of what is I, or me, is not the same as most see themselves.

AS science develops, and more is learned, more leans to that aspect. If we test and see a change of difference with known fact, then it changes. Buddhists test daily in meditation. Experience, and some Phowa (dealing with death), some of it is cultural, some of it is observation after death., or teachings of Lama's and Rinpoche's
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Part also comes through experience and meditation. However the Dalai also uses the same teaching structure, there is most luckily an example on his website videos, may have to wean through them.

I am Kagyupa, Tenzin Gyatso is Gelugpa. I am stating our concept of it. You are confusing aspects of it.

In Buddhism, the true self, and all of us, have the Buddha nature, the enlightened state. The difference is due to cause and effect, others attributes in experience, many have a clouded concept, and can not see inward. We stride to remove those aspects and break the cycle of samsara. An enlightened being can choose to return. The consciousness and steam is not attached to any physical body. The brain is a receiver to consciousness, and as it develops, is able to handle the stream of consciousness. Teachings are reinforced. Aspects will carry through. If the body has physical issues it may prevent the flow.

However the perception of what is I, or me, is not the same as most see themselves.
I am quite aware of what you post above, but what you pretty much are avoiding is that any teaching can be "tested by fire", therefore any specific teaching has the potential of being incorrect.

What I am doing is throwing out some "speed bumps" to slow down the process of just taking any dharma at face value because So-and-So taught it, even if it was Old Sid himself. Questioning should not be viewed as intrinsically wrong, and we can grow by our pet beliefs and thoughts being challenged.
 

Yeshe Dondrub

Kagyupa OBT-Thubetan
I am quite aware of what you post above, but what you pretty much are avoiding is that any teaching can be "tested by fire", therefore any specific teaching has the potential of being incorrect.

What I am doing is throwing out some "speed bumps" to slow down the process of just taking any dharma at face value because So-and-So taught it, even if it was Old Sid himself. Questioning should not be viewed as intrinsically wrong, and we can grow by our pet beliefs and thoughts being challenged.

AS Buddhists we don't take it at face value. The core tenant , even the Buddha Shakyamuni stated "Don't take my word for it, test it in action". Neuroscience is a aspect many students later explore, as a way to take experiences, meditation and core aspects, and help the field as well as grow from the field.

INSERT: Tested teachings for enlightenment are aspects of the "weaning through egO" and work with what we know as mind.

Many teachers take part in neuroscience tests, during meditation, practices, and other aspects. As well as discussion on how the practices are geared towards essentially tricking the mind to let go of "Ego". versus literal perception.

This will be on going for some time and hopefully continue to benefit others and support further studies.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
AS Buddhists we don't take it at face value. The core tenant , even the Buddha Shakyamuni stated "Don't take my word for it, test it in action". Neuroscience is a aspect many students later explore, as a way to take experiences, meditation and core aspects, and help the field as well as grow from the field.
Ah, now we are on the same page. :)
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Like most I assume God cares what we think, what would be the point of giving us the ability to think, for no particular reason?

I am not sure He appreciates that. That could endanger Him.

Matthew 11;25
25 At that time Jesus answered and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, because thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes.

Ciao

- viole
 

Wu Wei

ursus senum severiorum and ex-Bisy Backson
Do you believe in the Big Bang?

Do you think it was a superior being who created the Big Bang?

Do you think the multiverse theory is a good explanation?

Was it something else?

Not to derail the conversation but I had a similar conversation about the Big Bang way back in my college days. We were having the discussion because science was trying to figure it out and it was in the news.

I had this thought: What came before the "most recent" big bang was a group of Scientists trying to figure out what caused the big bang. And then one afternoon one of them was heard to say EUREKA!!!! and then BANG!!!! it started allover again.

It may be way off the mark, but it sure left a lot of College Science types thinking
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
The consciousness is not transformed when you die. Since the consciousness is not in your body, nor your brain. The brain acts more like a radio receiver.
But the consciousness is changing constantly. At least if we're talking about what we're conscious about and to what level we're conscious about things. Your memory changes too because of continuous experience, and your consciousness (as a focus of things) goes in and out and only highlight one or few things at a time, hence we have things like "change blindness" and such.

Besides, doesn't meditation alter consciousness?
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
Not to derail the conversation but I had a similar conversation about the Big Bang way back in my college days. We were having the discussion because science was trying to figure it out and it was in the news.

I had this thought: What came before the "most recent" big bang was a group of Scientists trying to figure out what caused the big bang. And then one afternoon one of them was heard to say EUREKA!!!! and then BANG!!!! it started allover again.

It may be way off the mark, but it sure left a lot of College Science types thinking
Isaac Asimov, "The Last Question."

The Last Question -- Isaac Asimov
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Do you believe in the Big Bang?

It currently seems the best explanation of what's been observed. The latest thinking is that there probably was something before the big bang, with time extending back indefinitely. I don't think ideas about "God" add anything useful though.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Like most I assume God cares what we think, what would be the point of giving us the ability to think, for no particular reason?
What you are doing is anthropomorphizing God, which some of us don't do. To assume that God "thinks" like we think may be a mistake. But then, maybe not.
 

Guy Threepwood

Mighty Pirate
What you are doing is anthropomorphizing God, which some of us don't do. To assume that God "thinks" like we think may be a mistake. But then, maybe not.

we are the only beings we are aware of in creation- able to explore and appreciate that creation, this is consistent with us being the prime beneficiaries of that creation is it not?
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
we are the only beings we are aware of in creation- able to explore and appreciate that creation, this is consistent with us being the prime beneficiaries of that creation is it not?

There are billions of galaxies and each galaxy has billions of stars with planets which could support life, so it's extremely unlikely we're the only intelligent beings in the universe.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
we are the only beings we are aware of in creation- able to explore and appreciate that creation, this is consistent with us being the prime beneficiaries of that creation is it not?
Other animals besides us seem to have fun at times, which I would think would be a form of "appreciation", so I wouldn't assume that humans are the "prime beneficiaries of that creation".
 

Rick O'Shez

Irishman bouncing off walls
Other animals besides us seem to have fun at times, which I would think would be a form of "appreciation", so I wouldn't assume that humans are the "prime beneficiaries of that creation".

The Church used to support the idea that we were at the centre of the universe and animals were just put here for us to use.
 
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