another botched execution.

methylatedghosts · Nov 23, 2014

Pegg said:
I dont think anyone has the 'right' to exist. Life is a gift given to each of us... and those who dont respect that gift are the ones who tread all over it and treat it as worthless. They certainly dont have the 'right' to live with that attitude.

We belong to God, he created us, he gives us life but he is not obligated to give us life... so no, life is not a right. And God says he will take away the life of the one who kills life. So a murder most certainly does not have the right to live.

Do you believe in Satan the devil? He is about to receive a death sentence. If God is going to destroy that wicked spirit for all the murder he has done, then what makes a human murderer any less worthy of death?

I believe in neither your God, nor your devil. So that leaves us at a bit of an impasse.

If no one has the right to exist, then surely it's not a right that can be taken, and you can easily justify killing someone, if they don't have a right to exist in the first place

methylatedghosts · Nov 23, 2014

Koldo said:
Sure. But there is no argument to be had there, since I simply don't share your sentiments I can just completely dismiss this rationale.

Which leaves us at no better a spot than before.

But surely you're not in favour of the idea that killing one another is ok

Koldo · Nov 23, 2014

methylatedghosts said:
Which leaves us at no better a spot than before.

But surely you're not in favour of the idea that killing one another is ok

Certainly I am in favour of the idea that killing a certain type(s) of people is ok.
Particularly if these people are murderers.

oldbadger · Nov 23, 2014

Pegg said:
Quite right, thats why i would not condemn another person to death. But if the authorities did, then i respect their right to do so when dealing with these sorts of crimes.

Question:- Do you support the death penalty because a Jehovah's Witness theocracy would uphold such law?

Also, would a JW theocracy uphold the death penalty as laid down in the Bible? Would you execute prostitutes and adulterers?

oldbadger · Nov 23, 2014

Koldo said:
Certainly I am in favour of the idea that killing a certain type(s) of people is ok.
Particularly if these people are murderers.

....certain types of people......
What other types would you favour execution for?
Accepting that there are degrees of murder, would you favour execution for all murderers, regardless of the background leading up to their crime(s)?
At what age of convict would you favour execution? Would you execute a 12yr old killer?

McBell · Nov 23, 2014

Pegg said:
there is no death penalty in chrisitanity...

Death was the punishment of

striking or even reviling a parent (Exodus 21:15; Exodus 21:17);
blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14; Leviticus 24:16; Leviticus 24:23);
Sabbath-breaking (Numbers 15:32-36);
witchcraft (Exodus 22:18);
adultery (Leviticus 20:10);
rape (Deuteronomy 22:25);
incestuous and unnatural connection (Leviticus 20:11; Leviticus 20:14; Leviticus 20:16);
man stealing (Exodus 21:16),
and idolatry (Leviticus 20:2).

There are several different methods used in the Bible to execute the capital punishment:

burning (Genesis 38:24; Leviticus 20:14; Daniel 3:6),
hanging (Numbers 25:4; Deuteronomy 21:22; Deuteronomy 21:23; Joshua 8:29; 2 Samuel 21:12; Esther 7:9; Esther 7:10),
crucifying (Matthew 20:19; Matthew 27:35),
beheading (Genesis 40:19; Mark 6:16; Mark 6:27),
slaying with the sword (1 Samuel 15:33; Acts 12:2),
stoning (Leviticus 24:14; Deuteronomy 13:10; Acts 7:59),
cutting in pieces (Daniel 2:5; Matthew 24:51),
sawing asunder (Hebrews 11:37),
exposing to wild beasts (Daniel 6:16; Daniel 6:24; 1 Corinthians 15:32),
bruising in mortars (Proverbs 27:22),
casting headlong from a rock (2 Chronicles 25:12),
casting into the sea (Matthew 18:6).

McBell · Nov 23, 2014

methylatedghosts said:
You would fight fire with fire? You would counteract violence with violence?

I have no problem using violence to prevent more violence.

methylatedghosts · Nov 23, 2014

Mestemia said:
I have no problem using violence to prevent more violence.

I won't say it hasn't worked in the past (let's revive that Nazi example once again, yes?

)

But to me, it's the complete wrong type of thinking. there are always other options that must be exercised. Not till the last man lays down his weapons will you have peace, and it's hard to convince someone to put away his killing toys while you hold one yourself

Pegg · Nov 23, 2014

Mestemia said:
Death was the punishment of

striking or even reviling a parent (Exodus 21:15; Exodus 21:17);
blasphemy (Leviticus 24:14; Leviticus 24:16; Leviticus 24:23);
Sabbath-breaking (Numbers 15:32-36);
witchcraft (Exodus 22:18);
adultery (Leviticus 20:10);
rape (Deuteronomy 22:25);
incestuous and unnatural connection (Leviticus 20:11; Leviticus 20:14; Leviticus 20:16);
man stealing (Exodus 21:16),
and idolatry (Leviticus 20:2).
There are several different methods used in the Bible to execute the capital punishment:

burning (Genesis 38:24; Leviticus 20:14; Daniel 3:6),
hanging (Numbers 25:4; Deuteronomy 21:22; Deuteronomy 21:23; Joshua 8:29; 2 Samuel 21:12; Esther 7:9; Esther 7:10),
crucifying (Matthew 20:19; Matthew 27:35),
beheading (Genesis 40:19; Mark 6:16; Mark 6:27),
slaying with the sword (1 Samuel 15:33; Acts 12:2),
stoning (Leviticus 24:14; Deuteronomy 13:10; Acts 7:59),
cutting in pieces (Daniel 2:5; Matthew 24:51),
sawing asunder (Hebrews 11:37),
exposing to wild beasts (Daniel 6:16; Daniel 6:24; 1 Corinthians 15:32),
bruising in mortars (Proverbs 27:22),
casting headlong from a rock (2 Chronicles 25:12),
casting into the sea (Matthew 18:6).

Judaism follows the mosaic law...not christians.

The law of the Christ is different to the law of Moses. The only punishment in Christianity is disfellowship. Its what some people call 'shunning'

Pegg · Nov 23, 2014

oldbadger said:
Question:- Do you support the death penalty because a Jehovah's Witness theocracy would uphold such law?

Also, would a JW theocracy uphold the death penalty as laid down in the Bible? Would you execute prostitutes and adulterers?

No, thats not the reason. A JW theocracy waits on God to administer and execute judgement. The only authority given to christians is that of removing a wrongdoer from a congregation. Thats what we call 'disfellowshipping' and what you might call 'shunning'

Pegg · Nov 23, 2014

methylatedghosts said:
I believe in neither your God, nor your devil. So that leaves us at a bit of an impasse.

If no one has the right to exist, then surely it's not a right that can be taken, and you can easily justify killing someone, if they don't have a right to exist in the first place

I can understand then why you dont agree with the position I take.

McBell · Nov 23, 2014

methylatedghosts said:
I won't say it hasn't worked in the past (let's revive that Nazi example once again, yes? )

But to me, it's the complete wrong type of thinking. there are always other options that must be exercised. Not till the last man lays down his weapons will you have peace, and it's hard to convince someone to put away his killing toys while you hold one yourself

I have no problems killing a person who has been sentenced to death.
This in no way means I am going out and randomly killing people.

I have no problem killing a person in self defense or in defense of others.
This in no way means I am going out and randomly killing people.

McBell · Nov 23, 2014

Pegg said:
Judaism follows the mosaic law...not christians.

The law of the Christ is different to the law of Moses. The only punishment in Christianity is disfellowship. Its what some people call 'shunning'

Point made and understood.
My apologies.

Pegg · Nov 23, 2014

Mestemia said:
Point made and understood.
My apologies.

sheesh, no need to apologise

Shadow Wolf · Nov 23, 2014

Koldo said:
That's for each person to decide.

So how many innocents must be put to death before it becomes too many?

oldbadger · Nov 24, 2014

Pegg said:
No, thats not the reason. A JW theocracy waits on God to administer and execute judgement. The only authority given to christians is that of removing a wrongdoer from a congregation. Thats what we call 'disfellowshipping' and what you might call 'shunning'

So in a Jehovah's Witness world with JW authorities, the laws as laid down in the Old Testament would not be followed........ ok....... that's fine.

oldbadger · Nov 24, 2014

Poisonshady313 said:
If only it were that easy.

As a society, we put down dogs who bite people in order to protect ourselves from dangerous dogs. When a man lowers himself to the level of a dangerous animal, he must be put down.

.....Just men?
....so we would lock up female murderers?
Just asking.....

By the way, at what age would you execute murderers? Would you imprison a 12 year old murderer and wait till s/he's 16yrs, for instance? How would that work?

Would you execute people who incite murder? A year ago in a thread about bad cops, a member wrote 'kill 'em all'.... would that attract the death penalty in your world?

One more question: Given that you will execute murderers, how would you reduce the 300million dollar bill for each execution, and how would you carry it out effectively and humanely?

Just askin'.

Koldo · Nov 24, 2014

oldbadger said:
....certain types of people......
What other types would you favour execution for?
Accepting that there are degrees of murder, would you favour execution for all murderers, regardless of the background leading up to their crime(s)?

Mostly just people who have intentionally unlawfully killed, or ordered the killing, of another human being. Attempted murder included.
One other inclusion would be the case where someone intentionally causes irreparable grave damage to someone else, such as cutting off a limb ( without medical reasons ), disfiguring someone, mutilating, etc. However, if such was done as a result of self-defense that is not applicable.

But, there are circumstances where a reduced penalty is due, such as a person killing a blackmailer out of despair.

oldbadger said:
At what age of convict would you favour execution? Would you execute a 12yr old killer?

As long as proper maturity to comprehend the consequences of one's own actions has been shown, any age.

Koldo · Nov 24, 2014

Shadow Wolf said:
So how many innocents must be put to death before it becomes too many?

That's for each person to decide.

oldbadger · Nov 24, 2014

Koldo said:
Mostly just people who have intentionally unlawfully killed, or ordered the killing, of another human being. Attempted murder included.
One other inclusion would be the case where someone intentionally causes irreparable grave damage to someone else, such as cutting off a limb ( without medical reasons ), disfiguring someone, mutilating, etc. However, if such was done as a result of self-defense that is not applicable.

........ extremely interesting para....
One question for clarification. Do you include reckless acts along with intentional acts? In the UK we often see the descriptions like ;- ' ....intentionally, or if s/he was reckless.........'

But, there are circumstances where a reduced penalty is due, such as a person killing a blackmailer out of despair.

...... but you have not included 'beyond reason of the mind'...... ??? Would you like to...?

As long as proper maturity to comprehend the consequences of one's own actions has been shown, any age.

.... so, if a psychiatrist declares that a killer of 45 had a mental age of 12, then it would be hospital-prison?

One more question:- How would you execute 'death-sentence' convicts?

another botched execution.

Can't brain. Has dumb.

Can't brain. Has dumb.

Outstanding Member

Skanky Old Mongrel!

Skanky Old Mongrel!

Resident Sourpuss

Resident Sourpuss

Can't brain. Has dumb.

Jehovah our God is One

Jehovah our God is One

Jehovah our God is One

Resident Sourpuss

Resident Sourpuss

Jehovah our God is One

Certified People sTabber

Skanky Old Mongrel!

Skanky Old Mongrel!

Outstanding Member

Outstanding Member

Skanky Old Mongrel!