Shame on Islam! Shame! Shame!

Most importantly:

I make a big deal of Mukhtar because if poor nations like Pakistan are to develop, they need to empower women. When a country educates girls, they grow up to have fewer children and look after them better. They take productive jobs. And plenty of studies show that as women gain influence over family budgets, the money is less likely to go for tobacco, soda or alcohol, and more likely to be invested in small businesses and in children's education.

Click to expand...

DakotaGypsy said:

Most importantly:

Click to expand...

My faith says that man and woman are two wings of the same bird. If one is crippled the bird will never fly.

Islam says that man and woman are equal before God, too.

Regards,
Scott

I agree with what these Catholics say about islam...

http://www.catholic.com/library/endless_jihad.asp

In the days after September 11, 2001, American leaders rushed to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that had been "hijacked" by a fanatical band of terrorists. One hopes that these assurances were merely tactical—that nobody was meant to believe them and that they were meant to assure the Muslim world that the inevitable American reprisals were not directed at their religion as a whole.

If the world Muslim community perceived America as attacking Islam in general then the duty of every Muslim to fight for his religion—the duty of jihad—would have been invoked on a broad scale. The war against terrorism, instead of simmering with occasional flare-ups, like the Cold War, would have boiled over into a global conflagration, with the Muslim countries of the world—1.2 billion strong—mobilizing against America and the West.

Muslim apologists also rushed forward to assure the public that Islam was a peaceful religion. They disingenuously declared that the word Islam means "peace." And they tried to portray the terrorists as a fringe group outside the mainstream of Islam.

These were lies.

zorro307 said:

I agree with what these Catholics say about islam...

http://www.catholic.com/library/endless_jihad.asp

In the days after September 11, 2001, American leaders rushed to portray Islam as a peaceful religion that had been "hijacked" by a fanatical band of terrorists. One hopes that these assurances were merely tactical—that nobody was meant to believe them and that they were meant to assure the Muslim world that the inevitable American reprisals were not directed at their religion as a whole.

If the world Muslim community perceived America as attacking Islam in general then the duty of every Muslim to fight for his religion—the duty of jihad—would have been invoked on a broad scale. The war against terrorism, instead of simmering with occasional flare-ups, like the Cold War, would have boiled over into a global conflagration, with the Muslim countries of the world—1.2 billion strong—mobilizing against America and the West.

Muslim apologists also rushed forward to assure the public that Islam was a peaceful religion. They disingenuously declared that the word Islam means "peace." And they tried to portray the terrorists as a fringe group outside the mainstream of Islam.

These were lies.

Click to expand...

So much for Christian love. Thank God that there are better examples.

The word "Islam" does mean peace. It is in the root of the word itself and not up for debate.

The world Muslim community as a whole does perceive America as attacking Islam because we are. Your post is yet another example of our bigotry. And it if were truly the case, as you paint it, that every Muslim - all 1.2+ billion - would feel it his/her duty to fight America, then we would truly have a global conflagration. But we don't. Which should indicate to any rational mind that you are wrong.

Will this ignorant hatred never end? It's like an endless sea.

I am wrong ? thanks for your ignorant opinion

here is a pamphlet put out by the Catholic Church of England about Islam.

http://www.catholic-ew.org.uk/resource/interfaith/interfaith02.pdf

zorro307 said:

I am wrong ? thanks for your ignorant opinion

Click to expand...

I gave you a logical argument for why you are wrong, which you ignored. As for personal attacks, you don't think it's a personal attack to call Muslims liars and to distort their religion?

btw, from the ten commandments: Thou shalt not bear false witness.

lilithu said:

I gave you a logical argument for why you are wrong, which you ignored. As for personal attacks, you don't think it's a personal attack to call Muslims liars and to distort their religion?

btw, from the ten commandments: Thou shalt not bear false witness.

Click to expand...

do some internet searches for arabic term al-taqiyya

and no, I don't think it is a personal attack to post what I think is the truth about that "religion of peace"

but enough of this, there is plenty of anti/pro islamic stuff available via the internet. would posting any of that change our opinions ? not mine & I doubt yours

Hard to believe Christianity is a religion of peace after the Salem Witch trials or the Inquisition. The actions of a few misguided souls shouldn't condemn an entire religion in your eyes.

evearael said:

Hard to believe Christianity is a religion of peace after the Salem Witch trials or the Inquisition. The actions of a few misguided souls shouldn't condemn an entire religion in your eyes.

Click to expand...

Well said and thats without bringing Bu$h into the argument. :devil:

zorro307 said:

do some internet searches for arabic term al-taqiyya

and no, I don't think it is a personal attack to post what I think is the truth about that "religion of peace"

but enough of this, there is plenty of anti/pro islamic stuff available via the internet. would posting any of that change our opinions ? not mine & I doubt yours

Click to expand...

I know what taqqiyih is. Its not really a Suni kind of thing. It is much more prevalent in the Shi'ite side of the schism.

Taqqiyih, is also clearly defined. Under circumstance of extreme personal danger, where if a muslim admits to being a muslim it will result in his death THEN he is allowed to deny being a muslim.

It is not alright for him to lie in general. Lyin is something entirely different.

"And if they did call thee a liar, apostles before thee have been called liars too, who came with manifest signs, and with scriptures, and with the illuminating Book."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 - Imran's Family)

"Full well we know that verily that which they say grieves thee; but they do not call thee only a liar, for the unjust gainsay the signs of God. Called liars too were apostles before thee; but they were patient of being called liars and of being hurt until our help came to them; for there is none to change the words of God- now has there come to thee the story of those He sent."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 6 - Cattle)

"But when He gave them of His grace they were niggardly thereof, and turned their backs and swerved aside. So He caused hypocrisy to pursue them in their hearts unto the day when they shall meet Him,- for that they did fail God in what they promised Him, and for that they were liars!
Do they not know that God knows their secrets and their whisperings, and that God knows the unseen things?"
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 9 - Repentance or Immunity)

"And there are those who have taken to a mosque for mischief, and for misbelief, and to make a breach amongst the believers, and for an ambush for him who made war against God and His Apostle before; they surely swear, 'We only wished for what was good;' but God bears witness that they are liars."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 9 - Repentance or Immunity)

"O my people! act according to your power; verily, I too will act, and ye at length shall know! To whomsoever torment comes it shall disgrace him, and him who is a liar. Watch then; verily, I with you am watching too!'"
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 11 - Hud)

"Why did not, when ye heard it, the believing men and believing women think good in themselves, and say, 'This is an obvious lie?' Why did they not bring four witnesses to it? but since they did not bring the witnesses, then they in God's eyes are the liars. And but for God's grace upon you, and His mercy in this world and the next, there would have touched you, for that which ye spread abroad, mighty woe. When ye reported it with your tongues, and spake with your mouths what ye had no knowledge of, and reckoned it a light thing, while in God's eyes it was grave.
And why did ye not say when ye heard it, 'It is not for us to speak of this? Celebrated be His praises, this is a mighty calumny!' God admonishes you that ye return not to the like of it ever, if ye be believers; and God manifests to you the signs, for God is knowing, wise."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 24 - Light)

"Shall I inform you upon whom the devils descend? they descend upon every sinful liar, and impart what they have heard; but most of them are liars."
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 26 - The Poets)

I notice your Catholic web site is not Anglican, Roman or Eastern.

Regards,
Scott

Zorro,

Quick, off the top of your head, no fudging! What does the Arabic word "Jihad" mean?

Betcha don't know.

Regards,

Scott

zorro307 said:

and no, I don't think it is a personal attack to post what I think is the truth about that "religion of peace"

Click to expand...

You didn't just attack a religion. You attacked the people who follow that religion. It is one thing to say that you have issues with Islam; it's quite another to call Muslims liars. And hey, I was just posting what I think is the truth about you.

zorro307 said:

but enough of this, there is plenty of anti/pro islamic stuff available via the internet. would posting any of that change our opinions ? not mine & I doubt yours

Click to expand...

So you're basically saying that no amount of information or logical arguments could make you change your "opinion." Well, at least you're up front about your bigotry.

Popeyesays said:

Zorro,

Quick, off the top of your head, no fudging! What does the Arabic word "Jihad" mean?

Betcha don't know.

Regards,

Scott

Click to expand...

as long as those bombs, bullets & beheadings continue that's all I need to know eh ?

jewscout said:

**MOD POST**

A reminder that rudeness and name calling are not tolerated

please keep it civil​

Click to expand...

Yes, yes. I jumped the gun a bit there sorry.

They still haven't answered the question though.

zorro307 said:

as long as those bombs, bullets & beheadings continue that's all I need to know eh ?

Click to expand...

Its a foolish argument to attack a word you do not understand. You might as well attack "defenestration" as a practice. I know what that means, and I'm against it.
I know what "jihad" means and it has nothing to do with "holy war" or even "war".

"Jihad" means "struggle". Muhammad says, the Greatest jihad is the struggle within oneself to submit to the will of God. You don't know what al-Islam means either, I would wager. Al-Islam means "The Surrender", as in the surrender of self to the will of God. So the greatest struggle is to truly accept your own being is properly submissive to the will of God.

Something you seem to have trouble doing.

Regards,
Scott

someone posted this on another website stating it was from the Vatican's website yesterday as part of the New Catechism. perhaps someone here has a link for validation, but from this we see that the Catholic church has a deep respect for Muslims and the Faith of Islam...

(The Church's relationship with the Muslims: "The Plan Of Salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, In the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these Profess to Hold the Faith of Abraham, and together with us they Adore the One, Merciful God, Mankind's judge on the last day [330]")

(DOGMATIC CONSTITUTION ON THE CHURCH - POPE PAUL VI, November 21, 1964, Section 16 "But the plan of Salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator. In the First place amongst these there are the Mohamedans, who, professing to hold the Faith of Abraham, along with us adore the one and Merciful God, who on the Last day will judge mankind")

(DECLARATION ON THE RELATION OF THE CHURCH TO NON-CHRISTIAN RELIGIONS - POPE PAUL VI, October 28, 1965, section 3 "The Church regards with esteem also the Moslems. They adore the one God, living and Subsisting in Himself; Merciful and all-powerful, the Creator of heaven and earth, who has Spoken to men; they take Pains to Submit wholeheartedly to even His Inscrutable decrees, just as Abraham, with whom the Faith of Islam takes pleasure in linking Itself, Submitted to God. Though they do not acknowledge Jesus as God, they revere Him as a prophet. They also Honor Mary, His virgin Mother; at times they even call on her with devotion. In addition, they await the day of Judgment when God will render their deserts to all those who have been raised up from the dead. Finally, they value the Moral life and worship God especially through prayer, Almsgiving and Fasting")

Popeyesays said:

My faith says that man and woman are two wings of the same bird. If one is crippled the bird will never fly.

Islam says that man and woman are equal before God, too.

Regards,
Scott

Click to expand...

Which Islam is that?

And, why aren't man and woman equal before man?

DakotaGypsy said:

Which Islam is that?

And, why aren't man and woman equal before man?

Click to expand...

The Islam of the Qur'an.
Dakota, have you ever considered what a womans rights and status were BEFORE Islam came along - in that region, amongst those people. Or what the rights of women under Islam are compared to what the rights of women were in Europe in 620 A.D.?

I suspect you are trying to paint history with the paints and brushes of today's society. You will never get an accurate picture that way.

Regards,
Scott