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Changing God's Times and Law...
- Thread starter k4c
- Start date
Thank you for posting that. I found interesting the explanation of the day upon which the resurrection ought to have been credited. Also I think its important to care about other people, which you obviously do.
I have a criticism against those who made the video however, that they are wrong about their identification of the 'Man of sin' and wrong about how to go about fixing problems. Yes, the world is not perfect. Yes, 'Christianity' has not(yet) accomplished what it intends to accomplish. No, it is not because of a failure to correctly account for days and weeks. No, it is not because of someone called Satan controlling the churches. No, it is not because of 'Worship' on the wrong day.
Anybody can identify problems. That is natural and easy and is part of our immediate 'Fight or flight' response, but this response alone clouds vision. With it all you can see are weapons and exit doors. To be clever take a second look and find the good. If you must leave, at least grab something of value on your way out! If you fall, instead of saying "I fell!" say "I am getting back up." When you make a mistake say "Now I know what not to do next time." Don't throw away everything, but salvage the good while getting rid of the bad. What does it take to heal the leper? You have to get right next to them. Where is gold found? It is found mixed in with other minerals, and you have to melt the ore down to get the gold out. The wheat is mixed in with the tares.
This video is obsessed with cutting people off, running away, purging, leaving, escaping, finger-pointing. It is suspicious.
I have a criticism against those who made the video however, that they are wrong about their identification of the 'Man of sin' and wrong about how to go about fixing problems. Yes, the world is not perfect. Yes, 'Christianity' has not(yet) accomplished what it intends to accomplish. No, it is not because of a failure to correctly account for days and weeks. No, it is not because of someone called Satan controlling the churches. No, it is not because of 'Worship' on the wrong day.
Anybody can identify problems. That is natural and easy and is part of our immediate 'Fight or flight' response, but this response alone clouds vision. With it all you can see are weapons and exit doors. To be clever take a second look and find the good. If you must leave, at least grab something of value on your way out! If you fall, instead of saying "I fell!" say "I am getting back up." When you make a mistake say "Now I know what not to do next time." Don't throw away everything, but salvage the good while getting rid of the bad. What does it take to heal the leper? You have to get right next to them. Where is gold found? It is found mixed in with other minerals, and you have to melt the ore down to get the gold out. The wheat is mixed in with the tares.
This video is obsessed with cutting people off, running away, purging, leaving, escaping, finger-pointing. It is suspicious.
The video is not about people, it's about a kingdom that people (God's people) are involved in. Truth is truth whether it hurts or not. I don't cut anyone off but truth can have that effect on people.
I don't know you well, k4c. It is just my reaction to the video, and I have that reaction not because I have been cut off but because I've cut people off with truth. Truth is fire, and its nice to feel from a distance but standing in it is impossible. We just get as close as we can. If we were made of tougher stuff we could stand in it, but there is not any person who 'Has' the truth. All are compromised, but the way of peace brings truth in bearable and increasing amounts.
Romans 16:16&20 "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet...."
They cause divisions through opposing the 'Teaching'. What teaching?
Matthew 12:19-20 "He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,..." (Jesus quotes Isaiah)
Genesis 45:24 "Then he sent his brothers away, and as they were leaving he said to them, 'Don’t quarrel on the way!'" (Joseph speaking)
James 4:1 "What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?"
So the emphasis upon 'Truth' is a slight of hand when really what is challenging is just putting up with each other's defects. The 'Truth' that Paul refers to in Romans is the gospel's message of peace. If people can manage to love one another in peace then truth is assured. Being excellent in good work and innocent of evil is plenty enough to secure truth, but arguing about 'Truth' is just arguing and gives us an excuse to live selfishly apart from people who annoy us.
Romans 16:16&20 "I urge you, brothers and sisters, to watch out for those who cause divisions and put obstacles in your way that are contrary to the teaching you have learned. Keep away from them." "The God of peace will soon crush Satan under your feet...."
They cause divisions through opposing the 'Teaching'. What teaching?
Matthew 12:19-20 "He will not quarrel or cry out; no one will hear his voice in the streets. A bruised reed he will not break, and a smoldering wick he will not snuff out,..." (Jesus quotes Isaiah)
Genesis 45:24 "Then he sent his brothers away, and as they were leaving he said to them, 'Don’t quarrel on the way!'" (Joseph speaking)
James 4:1 "What causes fights and quarrels among you? Don’t they come from your desires that battle within you?"
So the emphasis upon 'Truth' is a slight of hand when really what is challenging is just putting up with each other's defects. The 'Truth' that Paul refers to in Romans is the gospel's message of peace. If people can manage to love one another in peace then truth is assured. Being excellent in good work and innocent of evil is plenty enough to secure truth, but arguing about 'Truth' is just arguing and gives us an excuse to live selfishly apart from people who annoy us.
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This all sounds good but it's not scriptural. Truth is revealed by God to those who are seeking it. The Spirit of God illuminates the truth and those who are born of God will see it, understand it and love it. There are many truths of God that need to be revealed and many falsehoods that also need to be revealed. If you don't have a love for the truth you won't be saved.
2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved
2 Thessalonians 2:10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved
Ok, well no longer talking about the video but responding to your thoughtful reply: He mentions 'Love of the Truth', but how can you love the Truth if you don't love God? How can you love God if you don't love the Brotherhood? How can you love your brother and at the same time hold him at a distance? If you do, then how can you say that you love truth? You love for your brother becomes the limiting factor in your love for Truth. 1John4:20 But maybe I am your brother?
Lets say that I'm wrong and because you have learned solid doctrine you are a sheep in the fold, but I have wandered. To find the 1 lost sheep (me) the good shepherd leaves the 99 (you) to wander while searching for just 1 lost sheep, so we are equals. There is not this "Oh, he wandered away, too bad for him! Wolves probably got him!" Luke15:4 And can you who are just another sheep come and get me? No, you can't. Only the shepherd can.
There are scripture verses against judging people on the basis of knowledge. Jesus forbids judging of others, a prideful thing, on the basis of what you know. (I suppose that is talking about fellowship, communion, acceptance etc.) So there must be trust in God to bring the truth, believing that God is involved (not uninvolved) and not allowing human arguing to gain a position of importance. I feel this is scriptural. 2Cor10:5 says "We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." Which I feel definitely is a scripture against pride in human argument.
Scripture verses about communion forbid breaking up fellowship over disagreements. Communion is about breaking bread with everyone and putting up with everyone, not forsaking the assembly; but denominations are about only meeting with those whom you approve of. No factions of any kind are allowed to separate believers. (see ICor11:17) Love and willingness to work together should trump discussions.
There are verses about our low position with respect both to truth and wisdom, relative to God. It makes us all equal. Paul famously says "Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1Cor1v20t21 So doctrine remains but is not upheld by argument. Instead argument leads to division and exalting human pride to an idolatrous stance.
That is why I say the video is suspicious.
Lets say that I'm wrong and because you have learned solid doctrine you are a sheep in the fold, but I have wandered. To find the 1 lost sheep (me) the good shepherd leaves the 99 (you) to wander while searching for just 1 lost sheep, so we are equals. There is not this "Oh, he wandered away, too bad for him! Wolves probably got him!" Luke15:4 And can you who are just another sheep come and get me? No, you can't. Only the shepherd can.
There are scripture verses against judging people on the basis of knowledge. Jesus forbids judging of others, a prideful thing, on the basis of what you know. (I suppose that is talking about fellowship, communion, acceptance etc.) So there must be trust in God to bring the truth, believing that God is involved (not uninvolved) and not allowing human arguing to gain a position of importance. I feel this is scriptural. 2Cor10:5 says "We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every thought to make it obedient to Christ." Which I feel definitely is a scripture against pride in human argument.
Scripture verses about communion forbid breaking up fellowship over disagreements. Communion is about breaking bread with everyone and putting up with everyone, not forsaking the assembly; but denominations are about only meeting with those whom you approve of. No factions of any kind are allowed to separate believers. (see ICor11:17) Love and willingness to work together should trump discussions.
There are verses about our low position with respect both to truth and wisdom, relative to God. It makes us all equal. Paul famously says "Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe." 1Cor1v20t21 So doctrine remains but is not upheld by argument. Instead argument leads to division and exalting human pride to an idolatrous stance.
That is why I say the video is suspicious.
Why do you interpret sharing truth with holding people at a distance? Sharing truth is sharing love for how can one see their neighbor's house on fire and not wake them up to save them? When the rich young ruler asked Jesus what he must do to inherit eternal life Jesus shared truth but the young man rejected it. In all this it said Jesus loved him. Sharing truth is to love others because truth is good. Truth is holy. Truth is right. Remember, love is a neutral force that can attach itself to good or evil. Because of this we need to let God not only define love but we must also allow Him to control our love. Not all love is of God. There is a love of the world that is not of the Father. Many ungodly things are being excepted in the House of God under the banner of love. God has a truth for His people to follow. When we follow God's truth we will be His people and He will be our God. When Jesus comes back He is coming to removed out of His kingdom things that offend and those who practice lawlessness.
Matthew 13:40-42 Therefore as the tares are gathered and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of this age. The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness, and will cast them into the furnace of fire. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth.
We are here to prepare people for the coming of Jesus. Those who want to be part of God's kingdom will live as kingdom people now no matter how much truth they currently know or understand. The kingdom of God will not be like what we see in the world today. Kingdom people find it hard to live in the world today. They know the will of God for His people and desire to live it in a world that has no desire for it. So yes, I will share truth and if distances people then that's on them, not on the truth. Love people by sharing truth. They fight against at first but the seed has been planted and now God has something to work with. The person who receives the truth will thank you when Jesus comes back.
Why does the Bible say "Let God be true and every man a liar." ? You just told me that love is a neutral force that can be attached to good or to evil things but you also says "Sharing truth is to love others because truth is good. Truth is holy. Truth is right." So if sharing truth is always the right thing, then why does that Bible verse exist? (I'm trying to converse with you about Bible verses, not pulling things out of my butt.) Why does Paul say God wants to confound wisdom? Why do so many passages in the Bible oppose and denigrate arguing? One would think arguing would be considered very important! Why does Jesus say not to look at the speck in my brother's eye? I mean, shouldn't I help him get the speck out if I love him? Why did Jesus say that we'd know who his disciples were by their love for each other? Why didn't he say we'd know them by their dedication to truth? I did not make these things up. Every time we put emphasis upon truth and upon drilling down to the truth, Jesus pulls the rug out from under us. Try and cut me some slack and see that I am not the one who equates sharing truth with holding people at distance. I didn't write the NT.k4c said:
We are talking about loving the least of Jesus disciples. Jesus is always clear on that point. There is no room for gray on that issue. It is not the side to err on. It would be better to err on the side of truth.
The angels gather the tares, not us. Because we cannot. Because when we try to do that we hurt not just the 'Bad' people but the 'Good' people, too. Everyone is mixed in together. The thing about tares is that its a poisonous weed that looks like it is wheat right up until harvest, and only then can you tell it apart.
'Prepare people' is a powerful expression of love, and by itself can accomplish a lot. You want to help people, and I think that's great.
Sharing is awesome. 'Sharing truth' is impossible for a human being, or so the scriptures say. I don't think it means truth is evil but that the order of things works differently than we'd like. In the parable you refer to there is zero fighting to get the seed into the ground, and the seed just falls where it falls.
It sounds to me that you are trying to build an argument where there is no argument. Truth is just as important as love for God is both love and truth. Both dwell in the same light.
You should be saying, "WOW! That was incredible! I never heard that before. Thanks for sharing. God is awesome and loves us very much. I pray people can see this and come out of Babylon.
Ingledsva
HEATHEN ALASKAN
No! I was a Christian once, - until I actually started studying the Bible, archaeology, etc. I will never be one again. The Bible is written by men.
But that was not the reason for my post.
This is a debate site. When you just toss a video, or sermon, with nothing to debate, that is SPAM, and against the rules here.
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Every debate opens with a topic and there sure seems to be debating going with the topic I posted. Now as far as your relationship with God goes. The original Bible was written by man but inspired by God. The best way to test the Bible is to test the prophecies that God gave us. Prophecy helps us to believe and prepares us for what is coming.
John 13:19 I am telling you this now, before it happens, so that when it happens you may believe that I am he.
Struggling with our faith is normal because we are natural people living by our five senses. Even the Apostles struggled with their faith at times. Each one of us grows at our own pace. Some grow faster than others and some may even stop growing for a season but I believe as time moves forward and we begin to see more of God's prophecies being fulfilled many of those who have stopped growing will begin to grow again. We are all constantly growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ. Study the prophecies of God. Learn His plan for His creation and you will see a living God who is alive and active in His creation. You will also see a system fighting against God and against those things that testify of Him. Man claims Satan told him to smash car into Ten Commandments monument at Oklahoma Capitol building_ - newsnet5.com Cleveland
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Not sure what you mean.
Thanks for you input but I'll stick with God's truth. Have a blessed day!
Let me know when 'God' makes another video.
I will! I'm glad you enjoyed the video. We have to be faithful in sharing these things because God's people are being sucked into the Beast system that God warns us not to worship.
There are those who stop growing because they stop believing and then there are those who stop growing because they believe they know everything and there is nothing else to learn.