Judas Iscariot: Hero or Villian?

Something I wondered about even when I was young was why Judas is considered a villian. The Gospels all describe him this way. But the Gospels also say that Jesus called all the Apostles Himself. Judas wouldn't have been one if He hadn't decided to make Judas an Apostle. And Jesus gave Judas the "Go Ahead", if you will. But most importantly, without Judas there would be no Salvation as described by traditional Christian teachings. If Jesus' death and Resurrection was the Sacrifice for our sins that brought Salvation, God knew and planned for Judas to do exactly what Judas did. Judas was no instrument of the Devil, he was instrumental in God's plan for Salvation.
Jesus knew this and selected and kept Judas specifically for the task, even giving him the order to go do it. Then He was around for weeks after and explained why Judas' actions were necessary for the Salvation of the human race to the Apostles. That Judas was a hero, even if he upset the Apostles at first.
Well, except that didn't happen. Judas was vilified anyway! Which I see as strong evidence that Jesus didn't actually Rise. Because the Apostles still believed that Judas betrayed them instead of having Saved them.
They did not know about God's Plan for Salvation. Which makes me ask, "So, who made up that Plan of Salvation story anyway", if the Apostles didn't know about it?

The Gospel description of Judas and what he did sound extremely human to me, not at all divine. Which only makes sense to me if the authors of the Gospels had no particular connection to God or the Risen Christ.

Tom

Hero

Turning some one over to their enemy's for money by kissing them is not a hero. Judas himself felt guilt over what he did and took his own life. The best I will given him is pawn.

columbus said:

Judas is considered a villian. The Gospels all describe him this way

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Not all.

One makes as though he was doing gods will. Not a villain.

They also had a later gospel that makes him a hero as well.

bobhikes said:

Turning some one over to their enemy's for money by kissing them is not a hero. Judas himself felt guilt over what he did and took his own life. The best I will given him is pawn.

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Only in one account.

There are at least 3 different ways he died.

Again your quoting one of many sources.

I do not believe that Judas Iscariot was made to do what he did to Jesus by God.The reason I do not believe this is because Judas was already doing evil.He was corrupt.In the book of John it states Judas was a thief.Jesus called him a slanderer.

John 12:5,-7. …5"Why was this perfume not sold for three hundred denarii and given to poor people?" 6 Now he said this, not because he was concerned about the poor, but because he was a thief, and as he had the money box, he used to pilfer what was put into it.7 Therefore Jesus said, "Let her alone, so that she may keep it for the day of My burial.…

John 6:70. Jesus answered them: “I chose you twelve, did I not? Yet one of you is a slanderer.”*

It states in the holy scriptures that Satan entered Judas.

Luke 22:2-4. …2 The chief priests and the scribes were seeking how they might put Him to death; for they were afraid of the people. 3And Satan entered into Judas who was called Iscariot, belonging to the number of the twelve.4And he went away and discussed with the chief priests and officers how he might betray Him to them.…

So from this passage we can clearly see that it was satan's influence,not God's, that led Judas to do what he did.

columbus said:

The Gospel de,scription of Judas and what he did sound extremely human to me, not at all divine. Which only makes sense to me if the authors of the Gospels had no particular connection to God or the Risen Christ.

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Judas betrayed Christ, not out of love or obedience, but for money. Yes, God who knows all things from the beginning, knew what Judas would do. It was necessary that Christ be crucified. We shouldn't conclude that the wicked men who ordered his death, were doing God's will. Nor should we conclude that Judas did God's will. God sent his Son to a wicked world where he would be crucified my men who exercised their free will.

bobhikes said:

Turning some one over to their enemy's for money by kissing them is not a hero. Judas himself felt guilt over what he did and took his own life. The best I will given him is pawn.

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They made up other stories about him, like the way he died. Maybe they made up the part about the money. If he had taken money, how would they know? He wouldn't have gone back to tell them.

They made up the stories is one explanation. Another is the possibility that Judas pushed Jesus into demonstrating His Power and Glory in the hope that Jesus really was the Messiah. And was horrified to find out he was wrong....
Tom

Jeshua was around after the "crucifixion", regardless of whether you believe in the resurrection or not.
Josephus has Jesus around after the crucifixion, so does Islam, so does Xianity. Notice a pattern?
As for Judas being a 'hero or 'villain', idk.

columbus said:

They made up other stories about him, like the way he died. Maybe they made up the part about the money. If he had taken money, how would they know? He wouldn't have gone back to tell them.

They made up the stories is one explanation. Another is the possibility that Judas pushed Jesus into demonstrating His Power and Glory in the hope that Jesus really was the Messiah. And was horrified to find out he was wrong....
Tom

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Jesus knew.He knew what they were thinking.Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every kingdom divided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand.

Scott C. said:

Judas betrayed Christ, not out of love or obedience, but for money. Yes, God who knows all things from the beginning, knew what Judas would do. It was necessary that Christ be crucified. We shouldn't conclude that the wicked men who ordered his death, were doing God's will. Nor should we conclude that Judas did God's will. God sent his Son to a wicked world where he would be crucified my men who exercised their free will.

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Judas was faithful in the beginning and by no means was he predestined to fail.

disciple said:

Jeshua was around after the "crucifixion", regardless of whether you believe in the resurrection or not. Judas was more of a tool, but obviously a 'villain' as well. I don't see how he would be a 'hero'.

ps Josephus has Jesus around after the crucifixion, so does Islam, so does Xianity. Notice a pattern?

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Because, after Jesus, Judas is the single most important person in God's Plan for Salvation. He is now vilified for carrying out God's work, when Jesus called him to do it personally. Jesus told His Apostles that, or at least would have had He Resurrected.

A big part of the problem here is the logical conundrums you get into when you posit an All Powerful God interacting with limited human beings. Jesus knew what He was doing, Judas couldn't have known. Assuming Jesus was God.
Tom

^Yep I revised my answer, I'm not really sure how I would label Judas, I pretty much don't, it's just part of the narrative.

columbus said:

Because, after Jesus, Judas is the single most important person in God's Plan for Salvation. He is now vilified for carrying out God's work, when Jesus called him to do it personally. Jesus told His Apostles that, or at least would have had He Resurrected.

A big part of the problem here is the logical conundrums you get into when you posit an All Powerful God interacting with limited human beings. Jesus knew what He was doing, Judas couldn't have known. Assuming Jesus was God.
Tom

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The more Gnostic and Mystical groups says NO, he was doing what he was there to do.

They say He was performing his part in the ancient mystical play; the Sacrifice of the Sacred King.

*

Adstar said:

Judas was a Villian of course. But God can use the villainy of His enemies to further His own eternal plan. As demonstrated by Judas..

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If God Himself picks you for a task and nobody else, and you do it, how are you a villain? Judas didn't make these arrangements, ALLMIGHTY GOD made them. I don't see where Judas had much choice if he was to obey God.

Tom

columbus said:

Because, after Jesus, Judas is the single most important person in God's Plan for Salvation. He is now vilified for carrying out God's work, when Jesus called him to do it personally. Jesus told His Apostles that, or at least would have had He Resurrected.

A big part of the problem here is the logical conundrums you get into when you posit an All Powerful God interacting with limited human beings. Jesus knew what He was doing, Judas couldn't have known. Assuming Jesus was God.
Tom

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The problem is, the people you are debating with know little of this history or how it developed in multiple communities each telling rhetorical mythology.

columbus said:

If God Himself picks you for a task and nobody else, and you do it, how are you a villain? Judas didn't make these arrangements, ALLMIGHTY GOD made them. I don't see where Judas had much choice if he was to obey God.

Tom

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exactly. I see it as rhetorical mythology, and that maybe someone helped to point him out in the large crowds at Passover.


The Gospels suggest that Jesus foresaw (John 6:64, Matthew 26:25) and allowed Judas's betrayal (John 13:27–28).[42] One explanation is that Jesus allowed the betrayal because it would allow God's plan to be fulfilled.

Bible Student said:

Judas was faithful in the beginning and by no means was he predestined to fail.

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I'm not sure if you are contradicting or agreeing with me. I don't believe anybody is predestined to do anything. But I do believe that God sees all things past, present, and future. He knows the end from the beginning.

I am partial to the Gospel of Mark.

I vote villan.