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Yeshua vs the Pharisees (round 1)

Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
Yeshua turned water to wine because he was exploiting Pharisaic doctrine!!

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; 2*and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3*When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4*And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” 5*His mother *said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.” 6*Now there were six stone waterpots set there for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each. 7*Jesus *said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” So they filled them up to the brim. John 2 1-7

Context:

This took place at the home of a Pharisee
The water purification ritual is a Talmudic tradition-does not exist in the Old Testament/Torah
Pharisees would traditionally throw out the water if it had any hint of wine after purification process
Note: Jesus is clearly not just performing a cheap trick for a party; he is exposing this man made tradition while simultaneously performing a miracle.

8*And He *said to them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it to him. 9*When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom, 10*and *said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” John 2 8-10

Yes. Yeshua took a man made Pharisaic commandment and completely exposed it. This is only the first of many of Yeshua's attacks on Pharisaic Judaism.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Simplelogic said:
Yeshua turned water to wine because he was exploiting Pharisaic doctrine!!

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; 2*and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3*When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4*And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” 5*His mother *said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.” 6*Now there were six stone waterpots set there for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each. 7*Jesus *said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” So they filled them up to the brim. John 2 1-7

Context:

This took place at the home of a Pharisee
The water purification ritual is a Talmudic tradition-does not exist in the Old Testament/Torah
Pharisees would traditionally throw out the water if it had any hint of wine after purification process
Note: Jesus is clearly not just performing a cheap trick for a party; he is exposing this man made tradition while simultaneously performing a miracle.

8*And He *said to them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it to him. 9*When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom, 10*and *said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” John 2 8-10

Yes. Yeshua took a man made Pharisaic commandment and completely exposed it. This is only the first of many of Yeshua's attacks on Pharisaic Judaism.
Click to expand...

This would be so much easier and less of a waste of bandwidth if you'd simply direct people to your proselytic web page. But it would be a violation of forum rules.

Do you actually want to debate anything, or are you simply gracing us with a sermon?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Simplelogic said:
Yeshua turned water to wine.
Click to expand...

Did he?


You have no clue do you?

Why does the Koine word translate to beer then?


Marriage at Cana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the journal Biblical Archaeological Review, Michael Homan argues that many biblical scholars have misinterpreted early texts, translating to 'wine' when the more sensible translation is 'beer'



he was exploiting Pharisaic doctrine!!
Click to expand...

So the unknown authors of John were doing some exploiting :slap:


How about the obvious rhetorical divinity building combined with possible allegory and metaphor?


You know nothing of pastoral theology? do you
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Did he?


You have no clue do you?

Why does the Koine word translate to beer then?


Marriage at Cana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In the journal Biblical Archaeological Review, Michael Homan argues that many biblical scholars have misinterpreted early texts, translating to 'wine' when the more sensible translation is 'beer'





So the unknown authors of John were doing some exploiting :slap:


How about the obvious rhetorical divinity building combined with possible allegory and metaphor?


You know nothing of pastoral theology? do you
Click to expand...

Lazarus whom Yeshua raised was the author. He wrote nothing about Yeshua's divinity btw.
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
Simplelogic said:
Prove my claim wrong. Show me where Yeshua's "divinity" is spoken of in the 4th gospel?
Click to expand...



Marriage at Cana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although none of the synoptic gospels records the event, mainstream Christian tradition and John 2:11 holds that this is the first public miracle of Jesus.[3] However it is considered to have symbolic importance as the first of the Seven signs in the Gospel of John by which Jesus' divine status is attested, and around which the gospel is structured.
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
Marriage at Cana - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Although none of the synoptic gospels records the event, mainstream Christian tradition and John 2:11 holds that this is the first public miracle of Jesus.[3] However it is considered to have symbolic importance as the first of the Seven signs in the Gospel of John by which Jesus' divine status is attested, and around which the gospel is structured.
Click to expand...

Fail. Performing miracles does not make one God. Many men performed miracles before Yeshua. Try again.
 
Simplelogic

Simplelogic

Well-Known Member
outhouse said:
You don't have he knowledge to understand symbolic importance :facepalm:

How embarrassing.
Click to expand...

Please present me the "text" which Yeshua or the writer of the 4th gospel declares Yeshua to be God. Your speculation means nothing to me. I will prove to you with Yeshua's words alone that he declared emphatically that he wasn't.
 
Nada

Nada

#
Simplelogic said:
Yeshua turned water to wine because he was exploiting Pharisaic doctrine!!

On the third day there was a wedding in Cana of Galilee, and the mother of Jesus was there; 2*and both Jesus and His disciples were invited to the wedding. 3*When the wine ran out, the mother of Jesus *said to Him, “They have no wine.” 4*And Jesus *said to her, “Woman, what does that have to do with us? My hour has not yet come.” 5*His mother *said to the servants, “Whatever He says to you, do it.” 6*Now there were six stone waterpots set there for the Jewish custom of purification, containing twenty or thirty gallons each. 7*Jesus *said to them, “Fill the waterpots with water.” So they filled them up to the brim. John 2 1-7

Context:

This took place at the home of a Pharisee
The water purification ritual is a Talmudic tradition-does not exist in the Old Testament/Torah
Pharisees would traditionally throw out the water if it had any hint of wine after purification process
Note: Jesus is clearly not just performing a cheap trick for a party; he is exposing this man made tradition while simultaneously performing a miracle.

8*And He *said to them, “Draw some out now and take it to the headwaiter.” So they took it to him. 9*When the headwaiter tasted the water which had become wine, and did not know where it came from (but the servants who had drawn the water knew), the headwaiter *called the bridegroom, 10*and *said to him, “Every man serves the good wine first, and when the people have drunk freely, then he serves the poorer wine; but you have kept the good wine until now.” John 2 8-10

Yes. Yeshua took a man made Pharisaic commandment and completely exposed it. This is only the first of many of Yeshua's attacks on Pharisaic Judaism.
Click to expand...
So you think that Jesus using God's holy spirit to perform this first miracle is actually a cheap trick?
 
Nada

Nada

#
Simplelogic said:
Where did I call it a cheap trick?
Click to expand...
Second paragraph in post #1.Is that a quote? You did not put the quote source if it is.I assumed you said it.

Note: "Jesus is clearly not just performing a cheap trick for a party; he is exposing this man made tradition while simultaneously performing a miracle."
 
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