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Meaning of Matthew 11:27 ?

Robert.Evans

Robert.Evans

You will be assimilated; it is His Will.
Sonofason said:
Perhaps I ought to have said, yes, I know Him, but I do not know Him as well as I should. I do not know Him as well as I could. But I do know Him. I have experienced Him.

Notice what our Lord has said, by the way He said this just after the verses you started with.

Jesus said,

"If ye love me, keep my commandments.

And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you."
(John 14:16-17)

You see, if we love Jesus, if we love God, we will keep His commandments. Yet we all sometimes fail at doing this, some of the time. When we are in obedience to Him, God comforts us with His presence, He overwhelms us with His love.

The world cannot obey Him because the world doesn't even acknowledge Him. You cannot be in obedience to that which does not exist.

But we do know God when He dwells with us, and within us. But because we are not in obedience to God at all times, it is quite apparent that we do not know Him as we should. God should be noticeably present within us all the time. If we knew Him better, we would not be so negligent to act in sinful ways, not ever. But we do.

Now Jesus knew God. And Jesus committed no sin, not one.
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Ok.
Interesting end though. If he did not sin, why did he die? The wages of SIN is death. Is that not interesting.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
nazz said:
Did you not receive any? I did.
Click to expand...

Do you mean being taught things? Nothing related to the questions posed in this thread, no.
but, any 'what', not even sure what you mean

If someone did talk about these things I can't remember it, who knows.

I've met some "Xians", they had different ideas, pretty much all of them, aside from the fact that even if they say 'Son of G-d' that doesn't tell me what the nature of Jesus is, Oneness Doctrine Xians also use this term.
 
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nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
disciple said:
Do you mean being taught things? Nothing related to the questions posed in this thread, no.
but, any 'what', not even sure what you mean

If someone did talk about these things I can't remember it, who knows.

I've met some "Xians", they had different ideas, pretty much all of them, aside from the fact that even if they say 'Son of G-d' that doesn't tell me what the nature of Jesus is, Oneness Doctrine Xians also use this term.
Click to expand...

I was taught that the deity of the OT was the Father. I was taught the Bible was the inerrant Word of God. I accepted those things without question for a long time. That is what I am talking about.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
nazz said:
I was taught that the deity of the OT was the Father. I was taught the Bible was the inerrant Word of God. I accepted those things without question for a long time. That is what I am talking about.
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Well seems like you could have stated that up front..

Anyways, yes that is the general view for most real believers I would say (some churches imo are not really about the theology), however you seem to be implying that Jesus is not the same as the Father?
Getting confused here, because often when someone says 'Jesus is G-d', they mean He is the same Deity as the father, just a different manifestation. This is how I view it. He is literally the same G-d, and the 'man form' is basically a reflection of Himself.
 
nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
disciple said:
Well seems like you could have stated that up front..

Anyways, yes that is the general view for most real believers I would say (some churches imo are not really about the theology), however you seem to be implying that Jesus is not the same as the Father?
Getting confused here, because often when someone says 'Jesus is G-d', they mean He is the same Deity as the father, just a different manifestation. This is how I view it. He is literally the same G-d, and the 'man form' is basically a reflection of Himself.
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Well I think the bible is clear that Jesus is not the same being as the Father though he is an exact copy of him but that's another subject. I am saying I no longer believe the Father is the deity represented throughout the OT.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
nazz said:
Well I think the bible is clear that Jesus is not the same being as the Father though he is an exact copy of him but that's another subject. I am saying I no longer believe the Father is the deity represented throughout the OT.
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Ok, and I as well did bring that up as a possible argument. Some may be 'added' text, I don't read every verse in the Bible like a command.


That being said the OT is part of my Jesusist beliefs.
As such I do think it is the 'same' Deity in that regard.
 
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nazz

nazz

Doubting Thomas
disciple said:
Ok, and I as well did bring that up as a possible argument. Some may be 'added' text, I don't read every verse in the Bible like a command.


That being said the OT is part of my Jesusist beliefs.
As such I do think it is the 'same' Deity in that regard.
Click to expand...

The OT has some good stuff in it but much that is not so good. You may find this an interesting read...

Ptolemy's Letter to Flora
 
Sonofason

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
Robert.Evans said:
Ok.
Interesting end though. If he did not sin, why did he die? The wages of SIN is death. Is that not interesting.
Click to expand...

He paid the price for my sins. He payed the price for the sins of all who accept Him, so that they can enter heaven and God's presence justified, and innocent. By His death, our sins are removed. Our debt is paid. He offered His life to pay for the sins of all who accept His offer.
 
Sonofason

Sonofason

Well-Known Member
nazz said:
I was taught that the deity of the OT was the Father. I was taught the Bible was the inerrant Word of God. I accepted those things without question for a long time. That is what I am talking about.
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That is good. The Bible as it was written is indeed the inerrant Word of God. And the deity of the Old Testament was and is the Father, but if you look closely, you will find the Son interwoven in many Old Testament writings. He was there.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
nazz said:
I was taught that the deity of the OT was the Father. I was taught the Bible was the inerrant Word of God. I accepted those things without question for a long time. That is what I am talking about.
Click to expand...

Indoctrination isn't the same thing as 'taught', just a heads up.
 
Christ's Prophet

Christ's Prophet

Member
Jesus' statement resembles those attributed to Him in John's Gospel (Jn 7:29; 10:14-15; 17:25). This shows how substantially John and the Synoptic Gospels agree on the portrait of Jesus.
No man knoweth the Son. That is, such is the nature of the Son of God; such the mystery of the union between the Divine and human nature; such his exalted character as Divine, that no mortal can fully comprehend him. None but God fully knows him. Had he been a mere man, this language surely would not have been used of him.
Neither knoweth any man the Father, etc. In the original this is, neither knoweth any one the Father except the Son. That is, no one man or angel clearly comprehends the character of the infinite God, but the Son-the Lord Jesus-and he to whom he makes him known. This he does by revealing the character of God clearly, and more especially, by manifesting his character as a sin-forgiving God, to the soul that is weary and heavy laden, John 17:6.
Notes on the New Testament Explanatory and Practical.
Albert Brownsey
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Albert BROWNSEY said:
Jesus' statement resembles those attributed to Him in John's Gospel (Jn 7:29; 10:14-15; 17:25). This shows how substantially John and the Synoptic Gospels agree on the portrait of Jesus.
No man knoweth the Son. That is, such is the nature of the Son of God; such the mystery of the union between the Divine and human nature; such his exalted character as Divine, that no mortal can fully comprehend him. None but God fully knows him. Had he been a mere man, this language surely would not have been used of him.
Neither knoweth any man the Father, etc. In the original this is, neither knoweth any one the Father except the Son. That is, no one man or angel clearly comprehends the character of the infinite God, but the Son-the Lord Jesus-and he to whom he makes him known. This he does by revealing the character of God clearly, and more especially, by manifesting his character as a sin-forgiving God, to the soul that is weary and heavy laden, John 17:6.
Notes on the New Testament Explanatory and Practical.
Albert Brownsey
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Is this 'know', or 'is', though, really. It seems like it would be both if the Scripture is saying that G-d manifested via the Spirit as Jesus.
To clarify the 'know' between the father ,and Jesus.
 
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InChrist

InChrist

Free4ever
disciple said:
In Matthew we have an interesting statement by Jesus, what is your interpretation of this?

(KJV)
Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; Neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.
Click to expand...


I think the verse you've highlighted coincides with...Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9

I believe Jesus, as the Son in perfect oneness with the Father, revealed and still reveals the character of His Father to His disciples because if a person knows Jesus they also know the Father...Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.” John 8:19 And those who reject Jesus Christ do not know the Father.
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
InChrist said:
I think the verse you've highlighted coincides with...Jesus said to him, “Have I been with you so long, and yet you have not known Me, Philip? He who has seen Me has seen the Father; so how can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? John 14:9

I believe Jesus, as the Son in perfect oneness with the Father, revealed and still reveals the character of His Father to His disciples because if a person knows Jesus they also know the Father...Then they said to Him, “Where is Your Father?” Jesus answered, “You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have known My Father also.” John 8:19 And those who reject Jesus Christ do not know the Father.
Click to expand...

Yes but see if we take this literally, it means that G-d looks like Jesus, or if you take seen metaphorically, it is like an identical image, not something 'different'.

But, regardless, good catch, they are very similar, if not practically the same in meaning.
 
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Pegg

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
disciple said:
In Matthew we have an interesting statement by Jesus, what is your interpretation of this?

(KJV)
Matthew 11:27
All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; Neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will reveal him.

This seems pretty clear that Jesus is saying we don't know the Father unless He i.e. Jesus, reveals Him /the Father. It's interesting because this means that the people listening to Jesus did not "know" the Father previous to Jesus's revelations, there are other verses similar to this, and I find them fascinating.
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I like the following explanation given by the Watchtower
Only the Son Fully Knows the Father

7 There are requirements to be met if we are to gain access to Jehovah. (Psalm 15:1-5) Who knows better than the Son what it takes to meet God’s standards and to have His approval? Jesus said: “All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one fully knows the Son but the Father, neither does anyone fully know the Father but the Son and anyone to whom the Son is willing to reveal him.” (Matthew 11:27) Let us see why Jesus could say, correctly and without exaggerating, that no one fully knows the Father “but the Son.”

8 As “the firstborn of all creation,” the Son has unique intimacy with Jehovah. (Colossians 1:15) Imagine the closeness of the Father-Son relationship that developed during the untold ages when it was just the two of them—from the dawn of creation until other spirit creatures were brought into existence. (John 1:3; Colossians 1:16,*17) Just think about the precious opportunity the Son had alongside his Father, absorbing the Father’s thoughts on matters and learning His will, standards, and ways. Truly, it is by no means an overstatement to say that Jesus knows his Father better than anyone else does. This closeness surely enabled Jesus to reveal his Father in ways that no one else could.

9 The teachings of Jesus reflected his keen awareness of how Jehovah thinks and feels and of what He requires of His worshippers. Jesus revealed his Father in yet another profound way. Jesus said: “He that has seen me has seen the Father also.” (John 14:9) Jesus perfectly imitated his Father in everything he said and did. So when we read in the Bible about Jesus—the powerful and winsome words that he used in his teaching, the compassion that moved him to heal others, and the empathy that caused him to give way to tears—we might well picture Jehovah saying and doing those very things. (Matthew 7:28, 29; Mark 1:40-42; John 11:32-36) The ways and will of the Father are perfectly revealed in the words and actions of the Son. (John 5:19; 8:28; 12:49,*50) Thus, to have Jehovah’s approval, we need to heed the teachings of Jesus and follow his example.—John 14:23.
10 Since Jesus knows Jehovah intimately and imitates him perfectly, it is not surprising that Jehovah has determined that the Son is the means for approaching the Father. With this foundation for understanding why we can come to Jehovah only through Jesus, let us now discuss the meaning of Jesus’ words: “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”—John 14:6.

“I Am the Way”

11 We have already learned that there is no approach to God without going through Jesus. Consider, more specifically, what this means for us. Jesus is “the way” in that only through him can we enter into an approved relationship with God. Why is that so? By proving faithful to death, Jesus gave his life as a ransom sacrifice. (Matthew 20:28) Without this ransom provision, it would be impossible for us to have access to God. Sin creates a barrier between humans and God, for Jehovah is holy and therefore can never approve of sin. (Isaiah 6:3; 59:2) But the sacrifice of Jesus removed the barrier; it provided the necessary covering, or atonement, for sin. (Hebrews 10:12; 1*John 1:7) If we accept God’s provision through Christ and put faith in it, we can enter into Jehovah’s favor. There is simply no other way for us to become “reconciled to God.”—Romans 5:6-11.

12 Jesus is “the way” when it comes to prayer. Only through Jesus can we go to Jehovah in prayer with the assurance that our heartfelt petitions will be favorably heard. (1*John 5:13,*14) Jesus himself said: “If you ask the Father for anything he will give it to you in my name. .*.*. Ask and you will receive, that your joy may be made full.” (John 16:23,*24) Appropriately, in the name of Jesus, we can approach Jehovah in prayer and call Him “our Father.” (Matthew 6:9) Jesus is “the way” in yet another sense—by his example. As noted earlier, Jesus perfectly imitated his Father. Jesus’ example thus shows us how to live so as to please Jehovah. To approach Jehovah, then, we must walk in the footsteps of Jesus.—1*Peter 2:21.
Click to expand...
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
O'k moving on, so we are to assume that Jesus does nothing without the will of the father.


'duh' I suppose.

This is why separate personalities in the trinity don't make sense to me, what if 'they' disagree or something...
 
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