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Judaism, Christianity, and the Jewish Faith

roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
metis said:
It was already explained and, yes, we were threatened, but there was also the promises.

But you still haven't dealt with why would God demand we follow the Law, punished when we didn't, and then supposedly give the Covenant to another group that doesn't even acknowledge the vast majority of the Law? I can't see where that makes one iota of sense, and some churches also arrived at this same conclusion, such as the RCC.

And notice what's going on here, namely that we in essence are being told God abandoned us, many believing we're going to hell, and yet we're not going around and judging other religions or condemning them. We're not the ones claiming that God abandoned you and that He condemns you. We're not the ones who claim one has to have p.c. beliefs or they're condemned.

Heaven knows we have our faults, and the promise in Ezekiel has it that we will be judged, but as individuals instead of corporate punishment. At the final judgement, the belief is that we as individuals will be judged. And I would suggest that this approach makes more sense, such as maybe you as a student may have experienced back in school when an angry teacher punished an entire class for the actions of maybe only a few students. How did that feel if you were innocent?

Anyhow, gotta go, but I have to admit that I'm not terribly pleased about my being involved in this discussion because I don't live a life of Judaism versus Christianity, or any other religion.
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I can’t answer for the Catholic Church or any other Church. I’m still trying to understand the scriptures themselves.
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
metis said:
It was already explained and, yes, we were threatened, but there was also the promises.

But you still haven't dealt with why would God demand we follow the Law, punished when we didn't, and then supposedly give the Covenant to another group that doesn't even acknowledge the vast majority of the Law? I can't see where that makes one iota of sense, and some churches also arrived at this same conclusion, such as the RCC.

And notice what's going on here, namely that we in essence are being told God abandoned us, many believing we're going to hell, and yet we're not going around and judging other religions or condemning them. We're not the ones claiming that God abandoned you and that He condemns you. We're not the ones who claim one has to have p.c. beliefs or they're condemned.

Heaven knows we have our faults, and the promise in Ezekiel has it that we will be judged, but as individuals instead of corporate punishment. At the final judgement, the belief is that we as individuals will be judged. And I would suggest that this approach makes more sense, such as maybe you as a student may have experienced back in school when an angry teacher punished an entire class for the actions of maybe only a few students. How did that feel if you were innocent?

Anyhow, gotta go, but I have to admit that I'm not terribly pleased about my being involved in this discussion because I don't live a life of Judaism versus Christianity, or any other religion.
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I had to reread your post. Please don’t lump me together with those poor orthodox Christians. I’m not insinuating that the Jews dropped the ball and the Christians picked it up.
 
H

Harikrish

Active Member
Paul heard about Jesus's resurrection. He believed those Christians that died like Jesus would be resurrected just as Jesus promised. But when he found the Christians remained dead and there was no resurrection, he quickly changed his message.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
roger1440 said:
I had to reread your post. Please don’t lump me together with those poor orthodox Christians. I’m not insinuating that the Jews dropped the ball and the Christians picked it up.
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I thought that's what you were saying, so I apologize for mistaking your intent.
 
H

Harikrish

Active Member
metis said:
It was already explained and, yes, we were threatened, but there was also the promises.

But you still haven't dealt with why would God demand we follow the Law, punished when we didn't, and then supposedly give the Covenant to another group that doesn't even acknowledge the vast majority of the Law? I can't see where that makes one iota of sense, and some churches also arrived at this same conclusion, such as the RCC.

And notice what's going on here, namely that we in essence are being told God abandoned us, many believing we're going to hell, and yet we're not going around and judging other religions or condemning them. We're not the ones claiming that God abandoned you and that He condemns you. We're not the ones who claim one has to have p.c. beliefs or they're condemned.

Heaven knows we have our faults, and the promise in Ezekiel has it that we will be judged, but as individuals instead of corporate punishment. At the final judgement, the belief is that we as individuals will be judged. And I would suggest that this approach makes more sense, such as maybe you as a student may have experienced back in school when an angry teacher punished an entire class for the actions of maybe only a few students. How did that feel if you were innocent?

Anyhow, gotta go, but I have to admit that I'm not terribly pleased about my being involved in this discussion because I don't live a life of Judaism versus Christianity, or any other religion.
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Hindus believe what God giveth, God can also take back. God saved the Gentiles and abandoned the Jews if you believe the New Testament of the Bible. The same God in the Old Bible OT destroyed the world and only saved a Jewish family Noah in the big flood and whatever fit in a boat and helped Moses lead his people safely out of Egypt, just before Jesus came along. Now God has turned his back on the Jews and is coddling the gentile converts. None of these Christian theological or Christians doctrines are difficult for Hindus to comprehend. But it is certainly easier for Christians to accept such intangibles.
 
metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Harikrish said:
Hindus believe what God giveth, God can also take back. God saved the Gentiles and abandoned the Jews if you believe the New Testament of the Bible. The same God in the Old Bible OT destroyed the world and only saved a Jewish family Noah in the big flood and whatever fit in a boat and helped Moses lead his people safely out of Egypt, just before Jesus came along. Now God has turned his back on the Jews and is coddling the gentile converts. None of these Christian theological or Christians doctrines are difficult for Hindus to comprehend. But it is certainly easier for Christians to accept such intangibles.
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That would make "God" a rather serious schizophrenic, but you can believe that if you wish.
 
gsa

gsa

Well-Known Member
Harikrish said:
Hindus believe what God giveth, God can also take back. God saved the Gentiles and abandoned the Jews if you believe the New Testament of the Bible. The same God in the Old Bible OT destroyed the world and only saved a Jewish family Noah in the big flood and whatever fit in a boat and helped Moses lead his people safely out of Egypt, just before Jesus came along. Now God has turned his back on the Jews and is coddling the gentile converts. None of these Christian theological or Christians doctrines are difficult for Hindus to comprehend. But it is certainly easier for Christians to accept such intangibles.
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Even assuming that you believe he was a historical figure, Noah was not Jewish. Hence the Noahide Laws and, just as importantly, the Noahic covenant. Not to be confused, certainly, with the Abrahamic or Mosaic covenants, the latter of which you present as having been abandoned. On this latter point, there is no consensus among Christians. In the Protestant denomination in which I was baptized and confirmed, we were taught that the Jews still had a covenant with God:

As Christians, we stand firm in our belief that Jesus was sent by God as the Christ to redeem all people, and that in Christ the biblical covenant has been made radically new. While church tradition has taught that Judaism has been superseded by Christianity as the "new Israel," we do not believe that earlier covenantal relationships have been invalidated or that God has abandoned Jewish partners in covenant.


We believe that just as God is steadfastly faithful to the biblical covenant in Jesus Christ, likewise God is steadfastly faithful to the biblical covenant with the Jewish people. The covenant God established with the Jewish people through Abraham, Moses, and others continues because it is an eternal covenant. Paul proclaims that the gift and call of God to the Jews is irrevocable (Romans 11:29). Thus, we believe that the Jewish people continue in covenantal relationship with God.


Both Jews and Christians are bound to God in covenant, with no covenantal relationship invalidated by any other. Though Christians and Jews have different understandings of the covenant of faith, we are mysteriously bound to one another through our covenantal relationships with the one God and Creator of us all.
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This is not widely accepted by more conservative Christians; in fact, John Hagee (a conservative Christian Zionist) has taken quite a bit of flack for embracing it. Similarly, the Catholic Church goes back and forth. But it is common among the Protestant mainline traditions. For the congregational churches, you probably have wide variance, and the failure of the Presbyterian Church to recognize dual covenant theology is one of the reasons that its recent divestment decision was so controversial. Similar resolutions opposed to the settlements have not raised the same level of controversy in the UMC, for example.

The bottom line: There is no modern Christian consensus that God abandoned the Jews. Quite the opposite in many cases.
 
CMike

CMike

Well-Known Member
roger1440 said:
"But if you or your sons turn away from me and do not observe the commands and decrees I have given you and go off to serve other gods and worship them, 7 then I will cut off Israel from the land I have given them and will reject this temple..."

Explain this verse.
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And G-D will then take the Jews back as stated in the numerous other passages.
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Harikrish said:
That is how God is portrayed in the Jewish Bible. Did the Christians or Islam improve the image of God?
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I agree with you that description of G-d or His attributes is way much incomplete in Torah or Gospels, mainly due to gross corruptions by the narrators/scribes/clergy.

Nonetheless Quran mentions correctly.

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Torah gives concept of a tribal/racial G-d like:

God in Judaism

Jewish tradition teaches that the true aspect of God is incomprehensible and unknowable, and that it is only God's revealed aspect that brought the universe into existence, and interacts with mankind and the world. In Judaism, the one God of Israel is the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, who is the guide of the world, delivered Israel from slavery in Egypt, and gave them the 613 Mitzvot at Mount Sinai as described in the Torah.

God in Judaism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please correct me if I am wrong with reference from Torah.

Regards
 
paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
I gave the concept of G-d as per Torah from Wikipedia.

I now give concept of G-d as per Quran from Wikipedia:

God in Quran

God in Islam

In Islamic theology, God (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh) is the all-powerful and all-knowing creator, sustainer, ordainer and judge of the universe.[1] Islam emphasizes that God is strictly singular (tawḥīd )[2] unique (wāḥid ) and inherently One (aḥad ), all-merciful and omnipotent.[3]

According to Islamic teachings, God exists without place[4] and according to the Qur'an, "Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted." (Qur'an 6:103) God, as referenced in the Qur'an, is the only God. (29:46)[5]

In Islam, there are 99 known Names of God (al-asmāʼ al-ḥusná lit. meaning: "The best names"), each of which evoke a distinct attribute of God.[6][7] All these names refer to Allah, the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name.[8] Among the 99 names of God, the most familiar and frequent of these names are "the Compassionate" (al-raḥmān) and "the Merciful" (al-raḥīm).[6][7]

Creation and ordering of the universe is seen as an act of prime mercy for which all creatures sing God's glories and bear witness to God's unity and lordship. God responds to those in need or distress whenever they call. Above all, God guides humanity to the right way, "the holy ways".[4]

God in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please correct me if I an wrong.

Regards
 
Flankerl

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
paarsurrey said:
I gave the concept of G-d as per Torah from Wikipedia.

I now give concept of G-d as per Quran from Wikipedia:

God in Quran

God in Islam

In Islamic theology, God (Arabic: الله‎ Allāh) is the all-powerful and all-knowing creator, sustainer, ordainer and judge of the universe.[1] Islam emphasizes that God is strictly singular (tawḥīd )[2] unique (wāḥid ) and inherently One (aḥad ), all-merciful and omnipotent.[3]

According to Islamic teachings, God exists without place[4] and according to the Qur'an, "Vision perceives Him not, but He perceives [all] vision; and He is the Subtle, the Acquainted." (Qur'an 6:103) God, as referenced in the Qur'an, is the only God. (29:46)[5]

In Islam, there are 99 known Names of God (al-asmāʼ al-ḥusná lit. meaning: "The best names"), each of which evoke a distinct attribute of God.[6][7] All these names refer to Allah, the supreme and all-comprehensive divine name.[8] Among the 99 names of God, the most familiar and frequent of these names are "the Compassionate" (al-raḥmān) and "the Merciful" (al-raḥīm).[6][7]

Creation and ordering of the universe is seen as an act of prime mercy for which all creatures sing God's glories and bear witness to God's unity and lordship. God responds to those in need or distress whenever they call. Above all, God guides humanity to the right way, "the holy ways".[4]

God in Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Please correct me if I an wrong.

Regards
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You are in the wrong thread with your Islam stuff.
 
D

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
Christians= Jesus as the Messiah, and G-d.
Judaism=Jesus is not the Messiah
-Xians await the second coming of Jesus
-Jews await the first appearance of Messiah i.e. not Jesus
-"Israel" for Xians is a spiritual state or place, not literal//Some Xians do view the literal state of Israel as the Israel described in the Bible
 
Estro Felino

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
I think that in this world full of hatred and religious intolerance (we all know what I am talking about) Christians and Jews must be united...now more than ever.
so...as for the topic of the thread...it doesn't really matter what Paul said, given that Jews normally put Christianity into practice, even unconsciously. so...
 
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