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Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

metis

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
allfoak said:
The way to interpret the Bible is to apply it all to yourself.
Who am I to decide what it means to someone else?
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That's not too distant from my approach, which is to take all scriptures as if they're allegory, learn from them, and then see what might be useful. Even though I do get involved in discussions about whether "this" happened or "that" happened, that approach is relatively meaningless to me personally.
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
dchezik said:
The problem with not taking the whole Bible literally, is that there's no way to tell what is meant literally and what is meant figuratively. It's even more confusing because some things are clearly meant figuratively. Plus the fact that if you don't like the literal meaning, you can always say, "That was meant figuratively." The fact that Christ himself frequently used figurative language complicates the matter even more. Christ at one point said, "Tear this temple down and I will rebuild it in 3 days."-- John 2:19. This confused everybody because they didn't know he was speaking figuratively about his resurrection!
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Taking it too literal presents problems also. Was the Church correct or Galileo? Was there a literal talking serpent in the garden? Who were the "sons of God" that had sex with the daughters of men. Who then gave birth to the Nephilim? Isn't Jesus the one and only son of God? Who were these other ones? Or, isn't it literal? Or, Jesus isn't literally the "son" of God? God was sorry he made man and said that he would blot out man from the face of the Earth? Was he telling the truth when he said that? To go beyond Genesis, we have staffs turning into snakes, and other incredible miracles. Real or embellishments of an ancient people in a time when "magic" was part of story telling?
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
greentwiga said:
I grew up in an Agnostic/Atheist family. I trained and worked as a scientist. Later, I became a Christian. I was embarassed by Genesis, and avoided studying it. Later, when I threw out all the traditional interpretations, and studied it afresh, I was surprised. I found the Garden, the Flood, Sodom, The Exodus all more accurate than I thought possible. They were just not accurate in the way tradition teaches. For example, the flood was just a localized flood. The Ark was a giant reed boat, which makes it possible, unlike a wooden boat the same size. It also only held the regional animals. The spiritual messages that people have found are the same, but just enhanced a little.

I do object to the interpretations that have been used for evil. People wanted it to be a world-wide flood to justify racism. People have twisted the Garden to support oppression of women. Those have become our traditional interpretations. I reject both those interpretations because they had to ignore parts of scriptures to get to those interpretations.
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What is your explanation for the Nephilim? I know some Christians are claiming that bones of giants have been found. Is that for real or a hoax?
 
CG Didymus

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Sonofason said:
The Bible is historical fact, and until you prove otherwise, it will always be historical fact. There is nothing that I know of that is nonfactual in Greek, Egyptian and Chinese mythologies. If there is, please state your unsubstantiated claim.
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Are you saying that all ancient mythology is factual?

And, when it comes to the Bible, of course for some Christians, it has to be historical, literal fact. But it is the problem of both sides to try and come up with believable evidence that their side isn't lying. Christians have the more difficult task. Did plants get created before the Sun? Did everything get created just a few thousand years ago? Did dinosaurs go on the Ark and only die out recently? Did the Sun stop in the sky? Which if literal, wouldn't prolong the day would it? But whatever, you don't have to prove that. I like that one. Next summer could you get God to prolong a warm cloudless day that has some good waves? I'd appreciate it.
 
allfoak

allfoak

Alchemist
metis said:
That's not too distant from my approach, which is to take all scriptures as if they're allegory, learn from them, and then see what might be useful. Even though I do get involved in discussions about whether "this" happened or "that" happened, that approach is relatively meaningless to me personally.
Click to expand...

Yes, whether the Bible is historically true or not is actually the least important aspect.
In fact, it seems the writers took great liberty with the history in order to get one to look deeper.
 
A

Aman777

Bible Believer
CG Didymus said:
Are you saying that all ancient mythology is factual?

And, when it comes to the Bible, of course for some Christians, it has to be historical, literal fact. But it is the problem of both sides to try and come up with believable evidence that their side isn't lying. Christians have the more difficult task. Did plants get created before the Sun?
Click to expand...

Dear Didymus, Yes, on Adam's world. The first firmament, which God called Heaven, was made the 2nd Day. Gen 1:6-8 Other HeavenS (plural) were made on the THIRD Day. Gen 2:4 This means that we live in a Multiverse, Literally.

Did everything get created just a few thousand years ago?
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No. The first Day began some 25 Billion years ago. The Big Bang of our Universe was on the THIRD Day, Gen 2:4 which was 13.7 Billion years ago in man's time.
Did dinosaurs go on the Ark and only die out recently?
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The dinosaurs died some 65 Million years BEFORE the Ark arrived, to bring Humanity to our Planet of Apes. Gen 8:4

Did the Sun stop in the sky?
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It was Jesus extending the Day in order to give the Israelites victory over their enemies. Jesus is BRIGHTER than the Noonday Sun, Act 22:6 in His Image as God.

Which if literal, wouldn't prolong the day would it? But whatever, you don't have to prove that. I like that one. Next summer could you get God to prolong a warm cloudless day that has some good waves? I'd appreciate it.
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No, since IF the Earth stopped suddenly moving at 1k miles an hour, can you imagine the carnage? Jesus is the answer and Jesus is Lord. God Bless you.

In Love,
Aman
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
allfoak said:
Yes, whether the Bible is historically true or not is actually the least important aspect.
In fact, it seems the writers took great liberty with the history in order to get one to look deeper.
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Agreed.

They knew they were writing pseudo history in many places. It is the places they did know accurately, that justifies those who wish it all to be true, to read it all literally.


To me it ruins the epic beauty and lessons it was meant to convey.
 
sojourner

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
allfoak said:
Yes, whether the Bible is historically true or not is actually the least important aspect.
In fact, it seems the writers took great liberty with the history in order to get one to look deeper.
Click to expand...
Finally, somebody's making some sense in this thread.
 
greentwiga

greentwiga

Active Member
CG Didymus said:
Well, the typical fundy Christian interpretation makes Adam's mistake the reason why sin and death entered the world. They take it as historical fact. Every person is already guilty at birth and since, they say, God requires a perfect sacrifice, no one but Jesus can pay the inherited sin debt.

That's the interpretation that concerns me the most, because it makes everybody else wrong. And, it all starts with a very literal interpretation of creation and the flood. When I was part of a fundy-type of Church there was a lot of pressure to go along with the group and accept what the Bible teachers told us was the truth. So how exactly is it going for you? I would imagine that there's lots of Christians that don't like what you're saying.
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So true. I am looking for a place to publish, but it is not acceptable to fundies, and too literal for liberal Christian groups. For example, I see a sea change in culture when agriculture was invented. No longer was it a hunter gatherer culture based on family. Now strangers had to live together. They invented covenants between strangers. Breaking the covenant was the meaning of the Hebrew word "evil." Breaking the new thing, the covenant with God, lead to spiritual death. Physical death had been in the world for millions of years. No, they don't like that. Moses and Jesus also ushered in sea changes in people's relationship with God. So, I don't destroy the basics of Christianity, but they have a hard time.

I don't focus on wrongness. I just ask if they have been able to live completely by the laws they know. Everyone, Christians included, say no. Then I talk about a different way rather than trying to be perfect.
 
allfoak

allfoak

Alchemist
From my perspective a literal creation story is very hard to reconcile.

Even the Jewish people don't see it that way.
Cabala is the mystery part of the mystery religion that Judaism always was.

The Gospels were written to break free from that.
And while the mystery of the Gospel is hidden from those who are not able to here, it is open to all to know the truth without the need of a teacher.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
allfoak said:
Yes, whether the Bible is historically true or not is actually the least important aspect.
In fact, it seems the writers took great liberty with the history in order to get one to look deeper.
Click to expand...

In other words?....history is written by the winner.

So much for accuracy.
 
Thief

Thief

Rogue Theologian
allfoak said:
From my perspective a literal creation story is very hard to reconcile.

Even the Jewish people don't see it that way.
Cabala is the mystery part of the mystery religion that Judaism always was.

The Gospels were written to break free from that.
And while the mystery of the Gospel is hidden from those who are not able to here, it is open to all to know the truth without the need of a teacher.
Click to expand...

No need of a Mentor?.....and you understand the gospels?

atta boy...
 
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