Jesus did not die on the Cross

paarsurrey said:

His knowledge of history, or whatever, is limited to the West.

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Better then having the knowledge and debating skills of a child.

Harikrish said:

Did you know one if Jesus's disciples Saint Thomas died in India?

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There is no contemporary evidence for Thomas being in the subcontinent, though it was possible for a Roman Jew of the time to make such a trip. Groups such as the Cochin Jews and Bene Israel are known to have existed in India around that time


The earliest known source connecting the apostle to India is the Acts of Thomas, likely written in the early 3rd century



An organised Christian presence in India dates to the arrival of East Syrian settlers and missionaries from Persia, members of the Church of the East or Nestorian Church, in around the 3rd century

Further to posts #4, 45, and 54,423,448,496,512,552,571,582,591.

We will look into Surah/Chapter No.3 of Quran to its end: [13]

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Aal-e-`Imran

[3:121] If anything good befall you, it grieves them; and if an evil befall you, they rejoice thereat. But if you be steadfast and righteous, their designs will not harm you at all; surely, Allah encompasses all that they do.
[3:122] And remember the time when thou didst go forth early in the morning from thy household, assigning to the believers their positions for battle. And Allah is All- Hearing, All-Knowing;
[3:123] When two of your groups meditated cowardice, although Allah was their friend. And upon Allah should the believers rely.
[3:124] And Allah had already helped you at Badr when you were weak. So take Allah for your Protector that you may be grateful.
[3:125] When thou didst say to the believers, ‘Will it not suffice you that your Lord should help you with three thousand angels sent down from on high?’
[3:126] Yea, if you be steadfast and righteous and they come upon you immediately in hot haste, your Lord will help you with five thousand angels, attacking vehemently.
[3:127] And Allah has made it only as glad tidings for you and that your hearts might be at rest thereby; and help comes from Allah alone, the Mighty, the Wise.
[3:128] God will do so that He might cut off a part of the disbelievers or abase them so that they might go back frustrated.
[3:129] Thou hast no concern in the matter: He may turn to them in mercy or punish them, for they are wrongdoers.
[3:130] And to Allah belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth. He forgives whomsoever He pleases and punishes whomsoever He pleases, and Allah is Most Forgiving, Merciful.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Any other poster here, believing in a religion or no-religion is welcome to prove threadbare:

1. Which verses of this chapter have been copied/plagiarized from Christian Gospels?
2. What argument/s have been given from Christian Gospels of NT-Bible or Quran, if any, to prove that “Jesus did not die on the Cross”?

Please

Regards

outhouse said:

There is no contemporary evidence for Thomas being in the subcontinent, though it was possible for a Roman Jew of the time to make such a trip. Groups such as the Cochin Jews and Bene Israel are known to have existed in India around that time


The earliest known source connecting the apostle to India is the Acts of Thomas, likely written in the early 3rd century



An organised Christian presence in India dates to the arrival of East Syrian settlers and missionaries from Persia, members of the Church of the East or Nestorian Church, in around the 3rd century

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St Thomas died in India.

http://www.biography.com/people/st-thomas-9505608

Harikrish said:

St Thomas died in India.

http://www.biography.com/people/st-thomas-9505608

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:slap: not a credible source.

Harikrish said:

St Thomas died in India.

http://www.biography.com/people/st-thomas-9505608

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You may quote for him from Wikipedia, he usually quotes from it:

Thomas the Apostle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and the references at its bottom.

Regards

outhouse said:

:slap: not a credible source.

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St. Thomas was killed in 72 AD. Nasrani Churches from Kerala in South India state that St. Thomas died atMylapore near Chennai in India and his body was interred there. The accounts of Marco Polo from the 13th century state that the Apostle had an accidental death outside his hermitage in Chennai by a badly aimed arrow of a fowler who not seeing the saint shot at peacocks there.[29]:238
29. Hunter, William Wilson (1886). The Indian empire : its peoples, history, and products. Morrison & Gibb.

Thomas the Apostle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

paarsurrey said:

St. Thomas was killed in 72 AD. Nasrani Churches from Kerala in South India state that St. Thomas died atMylapore near Chennai in India and his body was interred there. The accounts of Marco Polo from the 13th century state that the Apostle had an accidental death outside his hermitage in Chennai by a badly aimed arrow of a fowler who not seeing the saint shot at peacocks there.[29]:238
29. Hunter, William Wilson (1886). The Indian empire : its peoples, history, and products. Morrison & Gibb.

Thomas the Apostle - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Regards

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Peter died a martyr.A martyr's death is described in John 21:18 Most truly I say to you, when you were younger, you used to clothe yourself and walk about where you wanted. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and another man will clothe you and carry you where you do not wish.”

19*He said this to indicate by what sort of death he would glorify God. After he said this, he said to him: “Continue following me.”

Jesus was describing to Peter how he would die.

One cannot glorify God by dying because of an accident.

Bible Student said:

Peter died a martyr.A martyr's death is described in John 21:18 Most truly I say to you, when you were younger, you used to clothe yourself and walk about where you wanted. But when you grow old, you will stretch out your hands and another man will clothe you and carry you where you do not wish.”

19*He said this to indicate by what sort of death he would glorify God. After he said this, he said to him: “Continue following me.”

Jesus was describing to Peter how he would die.

One cannot glorify God by dying because of an accident.

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I did not mention Peter.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

I did not mention Peter.

Regards

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My mistake.I thought of Peter for some reason.There is no evidence that Thomas did go to India.If you read in Wikipedia passage where it speaks of what you claim,it says "it is believed.." It is not based on fact.Also,The Gospel of Thomas is not an inspired writing of God.This same Gospel of Thomas is the same book that speaks of Jesus as a brat who killed some people.

Later Apocryphal Works. Particularly from the second century*C.E. forward there has developed an immense body of writings making claim to divine inspiration and canonicity and pretending to relate to the Christian faith. Frequently referred to as the “Apocryphal New Testament,” these writings represent efforts at imitating the Gospels, Acts, letters, and the revelations contained in the canonical books of the Christian Greek Scriptures. A large number of these are known only through fragments extant or by quotations from them or allusions to them by other writers.

These writings manifest an attempt to provide information that the inspired writings deliberately omit, such as the activities and events relating to Jesus’ life from his early childhood on up to the time of his baptism, or an effort to manufacture support for doctrines or traditions that find no basis in the Bible or are in contradiction to it. Thus the so-called Gospel of Thomas and the Protevangelium of James are filled with fanciful accounts of miracles supposedly wrought by Jesus in his childhood. But the whole effect of the picture they draw of him is to cause Jesus to appear as a capricious and petulant child endowed with impressive powers. (Compare the genuine account at Lu 2:51,*52.) The Apocryphal “Acts,” such as the “Acts of Paul” and the “Acts of Peter,” lay heavy stress on complete abstinence from sexual relations and even depict the apostles as urging women to separate from their husbands, thus contradicting Paul’s authentic counsel at 1*Corinthians 7.

Commenting on such postapostolic Apocryphal writings, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (Vol. 1, p. 166) states: “Many of them are trivial, some are highly theatrical, some are disgusting, even loathsome.” (Edited by G.*A. Buttrick, 1962) Funk and Wagnalls New Standard Bible Dictionary (1936, p.*56) comments: “They have been the fruitful source of sacred legends and ecclesiastical traditions. It is to these books that we must look for the origin of some of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church.”

Just as the earlier Apocryphal writings were excluded from among the accepted pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures, so also these later Apocryphal writings were not accepted as inspired nor included as canonical in the earliest collections or catalogs of the Christian Greek Scriptures.—See CANON.



WOL

Bible Student said:

My mistake.I thought of Peter for some reason.There is no evidence that Thomas did go to India.If you read in Wikipedia passage where it speaks of what you claim,it says "it is believed.." It is not based on fact.Also,The Gospel of Thomas is not an inspired writing of God.This same Gospel of Thomas is the same book that speaks of Jesus as a brat who killed some people.

Later Apocryphal Works. Particularly from the second century*C.E. forward there has developed an immense body of writings making claim to divine inspiration and canonicity and pretending to relate to the Christian faith. Frequently referred to as the “Apocryphal New Testament,” these writings represent efforts at imitating the Gospels, Acts, letters, and the revelations contained in the canonical books of the Christian Greek Scriptures. A large number of these are known only through fragments extant or by quotations from them or allusions to them by other writers.

These writings manifest an attempt to provide information that the inspired writings deliberately omit, such as the activities and events relating to Jesus’ life from his early childhood on up to the time of his baptism, or an effort to manufacture support for doctrines or traditions that find no basis in the Bible or are in contradiction to it. Thus the so-called Gospel of Thomas and the Protevangelium of James are filled with fanciful accounts of miracles supposedly wrought by Jesus in his childhood. But the whole effect of the picture they draw of him is to cause Jesus to appear as a capricious and petulant child endowed with impressive powers. (Compare the genuine account at Lu 2:51,*52.) The Apocryphal “Acts,” such as the “Acts of Paul” and the “Acts of Peter,” lay heavy stress on complete abstinence from sexual relations and even depict the apostles as urging women to separate from their husbands, thus contradicting Paul’s authentic counsel at 1*Corinthians 7.

Commenting on such postapostolic Apocryphal writings, The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible (Vol. 1, p. 166) states: “Many of them are trivial, some are highly theatrical, some are disgusting, even loathsome.” (Edited by G.*A. Buttrick, 1962) Funk and Wagnalls New Standard Bible Dictionary (1936, p.*56) comments: “They have been the fruitful source of sacred legends and ecclesiastical traditions. It is to these books that we must look for the origin of some of the dogmas of the Roman Catholic Church.”

Just as the earlier Apocryphal writings were excluded from among the accepted pre-Christian Hebrew Scriptures, so also these later Apocryphal writings were not accepted as inspired nor included as canonical in the earliest collections or catalogs of the Christian Greek Scriptures.—See CANON.

WOL

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My mistake

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Never-mind.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Never-mind.

Regards

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Ok.....

Further to posts #4, 45, and 54,423,448,496,512,552,571,582,591,623.

We will look into Surah/Chapter No.3 of Quran to its end: [14]

The Holy Quran : Chapter 3: Aal-e-`Imran

[3:131] O ye who believe! devour not interest involving diverse additions; and fear Allah that you may prosper.
[3:132] And fear the Fire prepared for the disbelievers.
[3:133] And obey Allah and the Messenger that you be shown mercy.
[3:134] And vie with one another in asking for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a Paradise whose price is the heavens and the earth, prepared for the God-fearing —
[3:135] Those who spend in prosperity and adversity, and those who suppress anger and pardon men; and Allah loves those who do good;
[3:136] And those who, when they commit a foul deed or wrong themselves, remember Allah and implore forgiveness for their sins — and who can forgive sins except Allah? — and do not persist knowingly in what they have done.
[3:137] It is these whose reward is forgiveness from their Lord, and Gardens beneath which rivers flow, wherein they shall abide; and how good is the reward of those who work!
[3:138] Surely, there have been many dispensations before you; so travel through the earth and see how evil was the end of those who treated the Prophets as liars.
[3:139] This (the Qur’an) is a clear demonstration to men, and a guidance and an admonition to the Godfearing.
[3:140] Slacken not, nor grieve; and you shall certainly have the upper hand, if you are believers.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online


The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Any other poster here, believing in a religion or no-religion is welcome to prove threadbare:

1. Which verses of this chapter have been copied/plagiarized from Christian Gospels?
2. What argument/s have been given from Christian Gospels of NT-Bible or Quran, if any, to prove that “Jesus did not die on the Cross”?

Please

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Regards

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I take it you deny Christ died on the cross or as a result of crucifixion soon after. Islamic claims about what did happen are all over the map. What is it you think occurred instead?

...Because I'm gonna trust a foreign document written 600 years after the fact, over a local document written 40 years after the fact.

sojourner said:

...Because I'm gonna trust a foreign document written 600 years after the fact, over a local document written 40 years after the fact.

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Hey, you stole my thunder. I was setting up that person for just such a retort and you blew my cover. Dang history believers.

1robin said:

I take it you deny Christ died on the cross or as a result of crucifixion soon after. Islamic claims about what did happen are all over the map. What is it you think occurred instead?

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A Christian should be happy and celebrate to know that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross.

I never understand as to why the Christians burden their own souls with so much sins that for their atonement they want to see their religious leader to die on the Cross.

Can't the Christians stop committing sins so that Jesus don't have to die a mythical death on Cross?

Christians should not be so selfish!!!!.

Regards

sojourner said:

...Because I'm gonna trust a foreign document written 600 years after the fact, over a local document written 40 years after the fact.

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Thanks for your appreciation and accepting the truth.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

A Christian should be happy and celebrate to know that Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross.

I never understand as to why the Christians burden their own souls with so much sins that for their atonement they want to see their religious leader to die on the Cross.

Can't the Christians stop committing sins so that Jesus don't have to die a mythical death on Cross?

Christians should not be so selfish!!!!.

Regards

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A lot you know about Christian theology.

paarsurrey said:

Thanks for your appreciation and accepting the truth.

Regards

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That went directly over your head, dropped a reality bomb...

and you didn't get it.