Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?

Robert.Evans said:

They would have... the consciousness evolves in a fractal way... we would expect to see the same things repeated. It would be more of a worry if it did not.

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All of which ignorantly avoids every aspect of what I stated in context.

You do know Abraham, moses, exodus, adam and eve FACTUALLY have no historicity?

outhouse said:

All of which ignorantly avoids every aspect of what I stated in context.

You do know Abraham, moses, exodus, adam and eve FACTUALLY have no historicity?

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They are historical real people. You putting your hand on your head all the time does not make it real. The first were in Africa. Now did you know that? There is a reason why they will not show up in some writings, just as there are reasons why certain pharoahs do not show up in Egypt.

One can make a case for just about anyone is history to make it look as though they do not exist. The bottom line is that all ancient history is written. You were not there. As it is written that they existed, it seems absurd to say they did not. You were not there... you have to give the benefit of the doubt. If i did not know you better , I would say you were an atheist or something... which a axe to grind

Robert.Evans said:

They are historical real people.

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:biglaugh:


If so it would be easy for you to supply CREDIBLE sources :slap:

Robert.Evans said:

The first were in Africa.

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:biglaugh:

Oh the ignorance is deep in this one :slap:

Robert . Evans said:

They are historical real people.*

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Other than what were written in literature, such as the biblical Genesis and Exodus, and other related texts and your belief in such texts, this is exercise in faith, not evidences or historical facts that Adam, Noah, Abraham or Moses existed.

They are literary figures, not historical figures. They fall under the realms of mythological, legend or fable.

Anyone can write book about someone, that doesn't make them historical.

Can you give one example of evidence, for instance, Moses leading people out of slavery and out of Egypt?
.

The answer to the original question is still - a resounding NO.

sojourner said:

No one's saying "God was lying to us in Genesis." Some are saying that the best literary criticism shows us that the the creation myths in Genesis are myths -- not literal science or literal history -- and shouldn't be read as literal science or literal history. And lack of scientific evidence of what's put forth is further evidence of its mythic character.

Further, none of us are insisting that "God wrote Genesis." Human beings wrote Genesis.

Your argument means nothing.

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Well, I am stating that the account of Adam and Eve preserves the location and the time of the invention of agriculture and Cain and Abel preserves the domestication of sheep. Later, in the line of Cain is the record of the domestication of Cattle. Also, the garden of Eden shows the typical religion of the time. It is only an interpretation that makes Adam the first Human being. It is equally valid to interpret it as the first in the line of people that leads to Shemites and then to Israelites, and finally to Judahites (or Jews.) That the Bible preserves the location of the invention of Agriculture means that your statement "lack of scientific evidence of what's put forth is further evidence of its mythic character." is false.

greentwiga said:

Well, I am stating that the account of Adam and Eve preserves the location and the time of the invention of agriculture and Cain and Abel preserves the domestication of sheep. Later, in the line of Cain is the record of the domestication of Cattle. Also, the garden of Eden shows the typical religion of the time. It is only an interpretation that makes Adam the first Human being. It is equally valid to interpret it as the first in the line of people that leads to Shemites and then to Israelites, and finally to Judahites (or Jews.) That the Bible preserves the location of the invention of Agriculture means that your statement "lack of scientific evidence of what's put forth is further evidence of its mythic character." is false.

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Imagination.

Gobekli Tepe Is older

greentwiga said:

Well, I am stating that the account of Adam and Eve preserves the location and the time of the invention of agriculture and Cain and Abel preserves the domestication of sheep. Later, in the line of Cain is the record of the domestication of Cattle. Also, the garden of Eden shows the typical religion of the time. It is only an interpretation that makes Adam the first Human being. It is equally valid to interpret it as the first in the line of people that leads to Shemites and then to Israelites, and finally to Judahites (or Jews.) That the Bible preserves the location of the invention of Agriculture means that your statement "lack of scientific evidence of what's put forth is further evidence of its mythic character." is false.

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And the time of development of agriculture and sheep herding? Do they coincide with the time line?

Your "evidence" is circumstantial and coincidental at best.





You're welcome.

Now everyone....altogether.....
Take your history books and beat yourself in the face.

This is theology.

gnostic said:

Other than what were written in literature, such as the biblical Genesis and Exodus, and other related texts and your belief in such texts, this is exercise in faith, not evidences or historical facts that Adam, Noah, Abraham or Moses existed.

They are literary figures, not historical figures. They fall under the realms of mythological, legend or fable.

Anyone can write book about someone, that doesn't make them historical.

Can you give one example of evidence, for instance, Moses leading people out of slavery and out of Egypt?
.

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You can make the same case about anyone before film.

Thief said:

Now everyone....altogether.....
Take your history books and beat yourself in the face.

This is theology.

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Thankyou... though I am sure you see there is a place for them, just not force fed above all other things!

Robert.Evans said:

Thankyou... though I am sure you see there is a place for them, just not force fed above all other things!

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Try that line on the posters that insist on history.

Quote: "...Also, the garden of Eden shows the typical religion of the time...."
????
~
'mud

Take your history books and beat yourself in the face.

This is theology.

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You mean mythology :slap:

How desperate and embarrassing

Theology exist and was created due to perceived history. It evolved in history

Im sorry this is reality, not fantasy land.

sojourner said:

And the time of development of agriculture and sheep herding? Do they coincide with the time line?

Your "evidence" is circumstantial and coincidental at best.





You're welcome.

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From about.com: Sheep (Ovis aries) were probably first domesticated at least three separate times in the Fertile Crescent of western Iran and Turkey, Syria and Iraq. This occurred approximately 10,500 years ago, and involved at least three different subspecies of the wild mouflon (Ovis gmelini).

Also from About: The origins of our modern wheat, according to genetics and archaeological studies, are found in the Karacadag mountain region of what is today southeastern Turkey. There, some 12,000 years ago or so, both einkorn and emmer wheats were domesticated... the evidence is abundant, that by ca 10,400 years ago, domesticated wheat was in widespread use throughout the Levant region.

Since sheep are harder to determine because the time is based on morphological changes, which takes quite a bit of time, the first herder was probably earlier. Thus, sheep domestication was close in time and location to wheat. The Bible has it the next generation, which is possible from the science.

'mud said:

Quote: "...Also, the garden of Eden shows the typical religion of the time...."
????
~
'mud

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We know that most of the religious figurines of 10,000 years ago were mother goddess figurines. We have various accounts of the religion, but from thousands of years later. One account is the Oracle at Delphi. There, the priestess, who lived at a spring in a grove of trees on a mountain. She was called Pythea, because she got her oracle from Python (the serpent), who lived in the ground. Also, I might recommend The Golden Bough with its discussion of the green man. Dressing in fig leaves could be a green man action. Cain had a bad crop and killed his brother and poured his blood onto the ground. Again, this was an ancient practice to increase fertility. Frazier speculated that later generations "killed" the green man as a substitute for killing real humans. Missionaries in India saw very rural communities that sacrificed children to get better crops, even in the 20th century.

You do not get any hint of worship of other types of Gods, such as the Thunder Gods. As is Typical of the Bible, the conflict between the current God and the God of the Bible is shown with the superiority of the God of the Bible. I have seen archaeologists mention that there were almost no Goddess figurines around Karacadag, in contrast to the other locations in the Middle East.

All of which does nothing to prove mythology is real.

You have no tie from the Israelites who wrote these books, yet we do have the REAL origin. One you seem to be ignorant of.



Your guess are so laughable it amazes me how desperate people are to keep fanaticism alive.

outhouse said:

You mean mythology :slap:

How desperate and embarrassing

Theology exist and was created due to perceived history. It evolved in history

Im sorry this is reality, not fantasy land.

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Look who's posting....

So....you want your history.
Nothing else matters.

That's laughable.
This is not a history forum....and you are not the high priest of history.
(even if your were...this is a religious forum)

thief said:

Now everyone....altogether.....
Take your history books and beat yourself in the face.

This is theology.

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Theology is not history.

Theology is the study of nature of deity or deities, and/or the study of religious belief.

Theology (as well as religion or faith and spirituality) is not history (or archaeology) or science.

People living to 900+ years fall in the realm of mythology, not history. People made directly from dust, dirt, earth, soil or clay, also fall under the category of myth. Talking serpent or donkey showed that the stories are fables and superstitions. There are no evidences to support a global flood, or mass-exodus of former slaves and invasion of Canaan, also made all these events - myths or make-believe. Jesus exorcizing demons are superstitions and legends.

All of which, make for interesting stories, but hardly make them - "historical" or "real".

And none of these stories were even original.