2 Timothy 3:13 misleading and being misled.

It is too bad nowhere in the canon of The Bible does it say 'do not choose the first best thing you see as it is most likely not the right one'.

They even know somewhere in the mind that it might not be the right one.* But their motive is good, according to them, so it doesn't really matter WHO you go with.


* I know this because I hear over and over again them say "try finding another one which is better, and you won't be able because there isn't a better one."

When another one arrives, which is the right one, there is where the gnashing of teeth and the weeping will be.

It gives you a story! Now you don't have to do anything to get yourself a back-story. You have a thing. You don't need mountain climbing skills or to play the clarinet or a cool foreign accent. You don't have to start a llama farm or open a pet shop or take the world record for holding your breath. Back-story--> Got one!

Brickjectivity said:

It gives you a story! Now you don't have to do anything to get yourself a back-story. You have a thing. You don't need mountain climbing skills or to play the clarinet or a cool foreign accent. You don't have to start a llama farm or open a pet shop or take the world record for holding your breath. Back-story--> Got one!

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I don't know what it means but it sounds funny.

Savagewind said:

I don't know what it means but it sounds funny.

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Oh, believe me it is. You'd be laughing with me, too. It is too bad that it was based upon a misunderstanding of what you said. Its a terrible waste of very funny content. So sad.

I do not know what a back story is. I do not know what "it" is

It gives you a story!

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I do not know what "thing" I have or even if it is me who you think has the thing. And by the way, you do not know if I have a cool foreign accent or not.
Was the post insulting? Usually it is whenever I see this:

I see God laughing about all the damn pronouns in "all scripture inspired of God".

In post 62 I meant to commiserate with you about choosing the wrong Bible circle. A back-story is the story that is given to a character in a book, to fill them out and make them realistic. Well you joined an unusual Bible circle that changed your life, didn't you? A lot of people go through phases in life where they feel that they have to do very unusual things to differentiate themselves from others, so it is funny to think of your Bible circle that way. For example some people have to get a fine automobile and keep it very shiny and clean. Some people join punk culture. Some learn karate or pick up another hobby. That isn't always why people do things of course, but it does give them a story and something to say about themselves.

So the joke was meant to be that, now you don't have to go through any phases to establish your back-story. It was very funny, too.

savagewind said:

From the New World Translation; But wicked men and impostors will advance from bad to worse, misleading [πλανῶντες] and being misled.[πλανώμενοι]

From the New World Translation; (Luke 21) occur?” 8 He said: “Look out that you are not misled, [πλανηθῆτε] for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them.

It is unfortunate πλανηθῆτε is found in no other place to comapare it to these two; misleading, (πλανῶντε&#962 and being misled.(πλανώμενο&#953.

But it is all about believing in deception. Telling lies misleads anyone believing in the lie and believing lies leads the person away from the truth.

The truth is in Jesus Christ. Following Jesus Christ means not being misled by deceivers. But flollowing Jesus Christ also involves obeying the command to disciple the nations and to teach anything with an ear to "hear what the spirit says to the congregation", the congregation being all those gathered to Christ of which we are not to forsake.

OK. Now they say Jesus said "take care lest you be misled". But to be misled requires someone, or someones to do the leading. To listen to false stories cannot be leading a person anywhere. False stories are winds of teaching. This way, that way, up and down. HOW is that leading?

Ephesians 4:14 Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of people in their deceitful scheming.

YOU say Jesus said "take care you are not misled" but please, tell me how WIND is able to LEAD?

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savagewind,
The Holy Scriptures are, of course, not speaking about the wind, made by moving air, but is speaking about untruths that come and go, as the wind. Interestingly though, the Hebrew term Ruach, means wind or spirit.
There are several scriptures that touch on your question.
Consider what is said at 2Pet 2:1-3. Notice that here many ways are mentioned to mislead a person. Consider verse 3 where it says you would be exploited. One very important way is the teaching of religious leaders today, that we are under The Mosaic Law Covenant, so we should Tithe. Look at what the Bible actually says about giving, 2Cor 9:6,7. Would not they mislead you into believing that we are under the Mosaic Law? Do you think they will tell you the truth, when they are really the Hirelings mentioned by Jesus, at John 10:11-13. Consider also 2Thess 3:11-14, also 2Tim 4:2-5, Rev 12:9, 2Cor 4:3,4, 1John 5:19.
Just as in the first century, it is the religious leaders that have the reasons for misleading everyone.

jtartar said:

savagewind,
The Holy Scriptures are, of course, not speaking about the wind, made by moving air, but is speaking about untruths that come and go, as the wind. Interestingly though, the Hebrew term Ruach, means wind or spirit.
There are several scriptures that touch on your question.
Consider what is said at 2Pet 2:1-3. Notice that here many ways are mentioned to mislead a person. Consider verse 3 where it says you would be exploited. One very important way is the teaching of religious leaders today, that we are under The Mosaic Law Covenant, so we should Tithe. Look at what the Bible actually says about giving, 2Cor 9:6,7. Would not they mislead you into believing that we are under the Mosaic Law? Do you think they will tell you the truth, when they are really the Hirelings mentioned by Jesus, at John 10:11-13. Consider also 2Thess 3:11-14, also 2Tim 4:2-5, Rev 12:9, 2Cor 4:3,4, 1John 5:19.
Just as in the first century, it is the religious leaders that have the reasons for misleading everyone.

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I do not disagree with you. It is the religious leaders who are misleading and being misled. The people being misled might say that scripture about the leaders being misled means Satan is misleading them and they in turn are misleading people, but not the people who think that. No sir!

I do not believe Satan is a leader. Why would God assign another leader to go against God's son? So who then is misleading the leaders? It is the people who they lead. Look at what Israel did, which is a lesson for us! They begged God for a leader. So the leaders who mislead are actually being misled by the people, but not all the people, who wish them in service.

The leaders are cowardly because they must stay in line with the wishes of the people they lead and not in line with God's will.

savagewind said:

Mark 13:5; Matthew 24:4 and Luke 21:8 all say "perceive" which does not mean beware. It means "KNOW" or "SEE". Is Jesus telling us we should know who will lead us away from him? Please answer the question. What does "look out" mean? Is he saying God will distinguish for us a righteous teacher from an unrighteous teacher?

Luke 21:8 He said: “Look out that you are not misled, for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and, ‘The due time is near.’ Do not go after them...."

Matthew 24:4 In answer Jesus said to them: “Look out that nobody misleads you, 5 for many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will mislead many. 6 You are going to hear of

Mark 13:5 So Jesus began to tell them: “Look out that nobody misleads you. 6 Many will come on the basis of my name, saying, ‘I am he,’ and will mislead many...."

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savagwind,
It seems to me that you are trying to be too specific about who will lead a person wrong.
In the first place, think about several scriptures you have used, 1Cor 15:33, which speaks about bad associations spoiling useful habits. Theorist here is; if you associate socially with someone who does not care about God, or the one that He sent forth, he could be the leader you are talking about.
Also at 1Con 10:20-23 about eating at the table of demons. If a person is teaching doctrine different from the Bible and you partake of his teaching, then he is leading you down the wrong path.
You just used 2Cor 6:14, about not being unevenly yoked to an unbeliever. If yo continue to associate with the unbeliever, he will lead you astray.
Remember what Jesus said about the two gates, and roads at Matt 7:13,14. Anyone who leads you off the road that is cramped and narrow, onto the broad and spacious road, is leading yo off the road to life.
Think about all the Televangelists, there is not one of them that are true Evangelists!! To be a true Evangelist you must teach the same doctrines that the Apostles and disciples of Christ taught none of them do!! If you listen to them and take in their false teachings you are sitting at the table of demons, you have been lead wrong, to shipwreck, 1Tim 1:18,19.
There are so many examples to warn anyone: 2Pet 2:1-3. Also 2Pet 3:15-17, where some teachers have ulterior motives for misleading you, to exploit you, this by making people believe they are still under The Mosaic Law Conenant, and the laws on tithing, when we are not.
Consider what is recorded by Luke. Spoken by Paul, at Acts 20:28-30, where Paul warns disciples of Christ that after Paul's going away false teachers would arise, right from among the Christian Congregation, and try to lead them to themselves,
As for leading falsely, remember what Gamaliel said in the 5th chapter of Acts.
Acts 5:34-40. That was in the first century, today we have many more, because there is so much money to be made from gullible people by Hirelings, actually mercenaries, John 19:11-14.
In the first century Christianity was called The WAY? This would allow for only one way, that is right. Conversely, there can be innumerable wrong ways!!L

jtartar said:

savagwind,
It seems to me that you are trying to be too specific about who will lead a person wrong.
In the first place, think about several scriptures you have used, 1Cor 15:33, which speaks about bad associations spoiling useful habits. Theorist here is; if you associate socially with someone who does not care about God, or the one that He sent forth, he could be the leader you are talking about.
Also at 1Con 10:20-23 about eating at the table of demons. If a person is teaching doctrine different from the Bible and you partake of his teaching, then he is leading you down the wrong path.
You just used 2Cor 6:14, about not being unevenly yoked to an unbeliever. If yo continue to associate with the unbeliever, he will lead you astray.
Remember what Jesus said about the two gates, and roads at Matt 7:13,14. Anyone who leads you off the road that is cramped and narrow, onto the broad and spacious road, is leading yo off the road to life.
Think about all the Televangelists, there is not one of them that are true Evangelists!! To be a true Evangelist you must teach the same doctrines that the Apostles and disciples of Christ taught none of them do!! If you listen to them and take in their false teachings you are sitting at the table of demons, you have been lead wrong, to shipwreck, 1Tim 1:18,19.
There are so many examples to warn anyone: 2Pet 2:1-3. Also 2Pet 3:15-17, where some teachers have ulterior motives for misleading you, to exploit you, this by making people believe they are still under The Mosaic Law Conenant, and the laws on tithing, when we are not.
Consider what is recorded by Luke. Spoken by Paul, at Acts 20:28-30, where Paul warns disciples of Christ that after Paul's going away false teachers would arise, right from among the Christian Congregation, and try to lead them to themselves,
As for leading falsely, remember what Gamaliel said in the 5th chapter of Acts.
Acts 5:34-40. That was in the first century, today we have many more, because there is so much money to be made from gullible people by Hirelings, actually mercenaries, John 19:11-14.
In the first century Christianity was called The WAY? This would allow for only one way, that is right. Conversely, there can be innumerable wrong ways!!L

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Jehovah's Witnesses say the right way is their way and it is here. I believe there is one righteous way. He is called Jesus Christ. How are you so certain it isn't yet to come?

Jehovah's Witnesses teach that wicked people have power to lead a person away from the only right way. I realize association with certain people is discouraged in The Bible but it is unclear why. I think the reason why is because to befriend Christ's enemies is to encourage their waywardness. The warnings to distance yourself from them is not about you. It is about them. When you identify yourself as a loyal disciple of Jesus Christ and associate with some people who aren't, they can assume they also are OK with God. Do you see? They need not seek God to find God because you are there. It is about their salvation. Not about yours.

Tell me how you know the warnings about assocaition are about the safety of the believer and not the salvation of the wicked. This is what I have:

Romans 8:31-39New Living Translation (NLT)

Nothing Can Separate Us from God’s Love
31 What shall we say about such wonderful things as these? If God is for us, who can ever be against us? 32 Since he did not spare even his own Son but gave him up for us all, won’t he also give us everything else? 33 Who dares accuse us whom God has chosen for his own? No one—for God himself has given us right standing with himself. 34 Who then will condemn us? No one—for Christ Jesus died for us and was raised to life for us, and he is sitting in the place of honor at God’s right hand, pleading for us.

35 Can anything ever separate us from Christ’s love? Does it mean he no longer loves us if we have trouble or calamity, or are persecuted, or hungry, or destitute, or in danger, or threatened with death? 36 (As the Scriptures say, “For your sake we are killed every day; we are being slaughtered like sheep.”[a]) 37 No, despite all these things, overwhelming victory is ours through Christ, who loved us.

38 And I am convinced that nothing can ever separate us from God’s love. Neither death nor life, neither angels nor demons, neither our fears for today nor our worries about tomorrow—not even the powers of hell can separate us from God’s love. 39 No power in the sky above or in the earth below—indeed, nothing in all creation will ever be able to separate us from the love of God that is revealed in Christ Jesus our Lord.

The JWs teach that association with people who do not believe as they do is able to separate a believer from Jesus Christ. Association is something. It is written nothing is able to do that.

Are you able to explain that?

Jesus represents Truth. To love Jesus means to love truth. To introduce a lie to the love of the truth is a bad association. Doing so will spoil your way with Christ. No person can make you believe a lie. To believe a lie is ALL you. You can't blame anyone else.

Making people into bad associations is about blame. Let's meditate on that for a second. What is one cause of heartache and trouble on this here earth? Is it BLAME? I think so. What do YOU think? OH?