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1,000,000,000/1 Against Evolution !

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
SoyLeche said:
But that's the thing - even if everything in the OP were true, it doesn't mean that it "cannot be possible" - it means that it would be very unlikely. But, even unlikely things happen sometimes. I will never buy a lottery ticket becuase the chances of winning are just about the same whether you buy one or not - however, every once in a while somebody does the "impossible" and wins. Is it unlikely that everything fell into place such that life were able to evolve? Yes. Is it possible? Yes. It's possible that this is all some fluke - built upon random chance.
Understood, but we use incredibly improbable as "proof" all the time. DNA evidence in court cases is based on just that. We compare the DNA sample collected from the crime scene to a DNA sample collected from the suspect and based on certain key features, calculate the odds that it could have been somebody else instead. And if the prosecutors can show that it was very very unlikely that it was someone else, juries convict. If the argument is sufficient "proof" to send a person to death row - ie, kill a person - why would it not be sufficient to call a theory into question?

Having said that, I repeat that the calculations given in the OP are wrong and therefore this side argument is moot. :)
 

SoyLeche

meh...
lilithu said:
Understood, but we use incredibly improbable as "proof" all the time. DNA evidence in court cases is based on just that. We compare the DNA sample collected from the crime scene to a DNA sample collected from the suspect and based on certain key features, calculate the odds that it could have been somebody else instead. And if the prosecutors can show that it was very very unlikely that it was someone else, juries convict. If the argument is sufficient "proof" to send a person to death row - ie, kill a person - why would it not be sufficient to call a theory into question?

Having said that, I repeat that the calculations given in the OP are wrong and therefore this side argument is moot. :)
Yeah, but we have something to compare the DNA to. Unless someone can come up with some empirical way to test creationism, evolution is what we've got - no matter how improbable.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
SoyLeche said:
Yeah, but we have something to compare the DNA to. Unless someone can come up with some empirical way to test creationism, evolution is what we've got - no matter how improbable.
On that we most definately agree. :)
 

sandy whitelinger

Veteran Member
divine said:
no, don't you see? 'math that has never changed' says that evolution is a stupid theory. how can you argue with math that has never changed? you just can't do it.

i was about to turn away from the truth, but the many exclamation marks convinced me this dude is onto something.

:biglaugh:
 

mortuus monastica

New Member
I was just browsing the forums again when I ran across this hilarious little (well, not so little any more) thread, and I might as well get involved since this topic interests me significantly.

First off, the most minor point I have, is that if one wishes to claim “that our languag is butchered enoff,” then please, for Fade’s sake, use a spell check and be consistent in your own usage of English – so that we may understand your points better.

That aside, the primary problem I have with the principle argument of AG’s that the evolutionary model as it stands now is a statistical improbability is that is based upon false statistical models. The simplest answer that I can give you are these famous words by Terry Pratchett:
Every probability curve must have its far end
Given that, the more in-depth answer arises from the method in which your sources seem to have arrived at the conclusions they seemingly have. Primarily, the process of evolution does not rely solely on random mutations of an organisms genome. The current model hypothesizes that given the time available, evolution would have involved not only mutational evolution, but also survivalist evolution (think survival of the fittest). The layers of complexity the statistical model you’ve quoted,
AG said:
how many bad mutations it took to get one good and usefull mutation then muliply that number by the cells in the human body and then multiply that number by the number of EVERYTHING on planet Earth
Which, if anything like the actual method used to come up with the figures you cited (well, more like !exclaimed!) then I must say that the scientists you rely on should have failed any biostatistics or inferential statistics classes they should have taken. A more accurate, though not perfect (since when has statistics ever been perfect, eh?) is a method called social group-theory and statistical analysis. Long story short, what SGTSA entails is an analysis of how positive traits can influence and affect detrimental influences and modify purely random statistics away from the standard model (which you have inaccurately attempted to use) to a self preserving model.

Thus, the mutations and constructions required to go from a simple 5386 base-pair Phage Φ-X174 virus to a 3x10^9 base-pair Homo Sapien (that’s you) can easily take place in the millennia available for the process. In fact, the amoeba dubia has the largest genome know to date, having a stunning 67x10^10 base pairs – simplicity does not give rise to simpletons.

And Alexander Garcia, why bring up “BLACKS” or “Irish monkeys” at all? Any comments of racist origin (of which I believe there were an original three – a whole lot, eh?) in the original Darwin manuscripts have no bearing on the modern theory of evolution or the practical law of evolution. Please, for the sake of objectivity, save that for other places.
 

Jayhawker Soule

-- untitled --
Premium Member
mortuus monastica said:
The current model hypothesizes that given the time available, evolution would have involved not only mutational evolution, but also survivalist evolution (think survival of the fittest). ... I must say that the scientists you rely on should have failed any biostatistics or inferential statistics classes they should have taken.
Oh, my ... survivalist evolution and inferential statistics! Can Bayes Theorem be far behind?
 

Fade

The Great Master Bates
alexander garcia said:
Hi again I see Fade is smart enooff to call all kinds of people monkeys BUT WHY DID YOU NOT SAY BLACKS?
*sigh*

I did Alex, but since you can't read let alone write, I'll forgive you for missing it.
I see you also missed my Monty Python reference. As a Jew I would have thought you'd at least get that one.

alexander garcia said:
I'm sorry your belief gives you a headacke I know the odds hurt!!
No, you give me a headacke[sic]. But not your normal headache...no...this one is like a scratch on my pallate and I just can't seem to stop poking it with my tongue.

alexander garcia said:
Stop tring to prove a lie it might not hurt as much. Why is it that educated can't stand to be questioned it hurts, to try and answer. So without the side steps and dubble talk you cann't even talk about this trash. Even your very words show you your misguidence.
:faint: Irony? Thy name is 'Pot meet Kettle'.

alexander garcia said:
Natural selection,evolve is now addapt And the one that really makes me laugh is that everything happened by ACCIDENT that is in ENGLISH what evolution means ACCIDENT oh Yes I forgot ACCIDENTS without CAUSE only the effect on cause WE dont know. Or have you all made up a new word to make your point? Can you make it in English? Or is your best these pokes cause I really think they are funny thanks (smile)
I have made it in English though at the moment my Girlfriend is Irish so I'm currently poking in Irish. Does that mean I'm sick? Having sex with white chimps? Gosh I'm a dirty man! Spank me!:biglaugh:
 

alexander garcia

Active Member
Hi, again It is amussing that not one piont on so called evolution except a other word that means nothing to me. But I am happy this has given you as much fun as you have given me.Oh ya it's funny that even with my misspelt words you can still understand what I am saying but with all your education no one with out a collage degree can understand a thing you are saying and they have better of gone to collage in the last 10 years or they still won't cause every time you are proveds wrong you change the story. As long as you came up with the court thing, any one that changes there story as often as EVOLUTION gets convicted of PURJURY (LYING). Has anyone noticed that while Evolution has been proved WRONG ( lies don't change they are proved WRONG ) But scripture with all the money ant wise men at it's dispossale can't find one mistake in scriptures! Oh yes thry can! In translations Cause they translated them. Here is the point should you anyone with a brain bet on something that has billions of dallors behind it to try and prove it true and can't orsome thing that has been proved true in so so many ways and the billions that have and are being spent to prove it wrong and still no one can. I think a sure winner is batter than a horse that is not even in the race. Or simple post your proff HAHAHAHA or just have fun at my stupidity and common sense cause If you are right, I lose nothing! If I am right you lose it ALL! Don't you care what happens to you? Well I do and may your eyes be opened! I don't mention to who the responses are for you know. SMILE
 

Fade

The Great Master Bates
I'm betting it is too much to presume that you have heard of Pascals Wager so I'll ignore the last part of your comment.

That being said, there are plenty of errors, contradictions and flat out fabrications in Scripture.

spend some time with http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ and you may come to realise this. Though since you are a 'believer' I doubt very much that you will accept anything that contradicts what you hold to be truth.

Anyhoo, I don't hold a college degree so I find it really odd that you would use your own lack of one as an excuse for being ignorant.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
alexander garcia said:
Hi, again It is amussing that not one piont on so called evolution except a other word that means nothing to me. But I am happy this has given you as much fun as you have given me.Oh ya it's funny that even with my misspelt words you can still understand what I am saying but with all your education no one with out a collage degree can understand a thing you are saying and they have better of gone to collage in the last 10 years or they still won't cause every time you are proveds wrong you change the story. As long as you came up with the court thing, any one that changes there story as often as EVOLUTION gets convicted of PURJURY (LYING). Has anyone noticed that while Evolution has been proved WRONG ( lies don't change they are proved WRONG ) But scripture with all the money ant wise men at it's dispossale can't find one mistake in scriptures! Oh yes thry can! In translations Cause they translated them. Here is the point should you anyone with a brain bet on something that has billions of dallors behind it to try and prove it true and can't orsome thing that has been proved true in so so many ways and the billions that have and are being spent to prove it wrong and still no one can. I think a sure winner is batter than a horse that is not even in the race. Or simple post your proff HAHAHAHA or just have fun at my stupidity and common sense cause If you are right, I lose nothing! If I am right you lose it ALL! Don't you care what happens to you? Well I do and may your eyes be opened! I don't mention to who the responses are for you know. SMILE
Yeah, sounds like they are using the Scientific Method, and we all know that is crap :biglaugh:
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
jewscout said:
what would be nice is some source material to back up your arguement
there's plenty of creationist science whatnot on the web...there shouldn't be a problem

Yeah, but Jewscout, I am pretty sure that the threadstarter listed himself as a Jew, and I am pretty sure that they spray for Jews amongst the creationists.

B.
 
M

Majikthise

Guest
MdmSzdWhtGuy said:
Yeah, but Jewscout, I am pretty sure that the threadstarter listed himself as a Jew, and I am pretty sure that they spray for Jews amongst the creationists.

B.

I had to log on just to give you frubals for that one.

As long as I'm here.... AG , I joined the military shortly after graduating from trade school (I GO VOC, DUH!!), and have never attended any universities. I have no trouble getting my point across with all these eggheads.:D
 

alexander garcia

Active Member
Hi, To the Athiest Buddest HAHA do you realize they don't go together?HAHA Still to Mortuus MonasticaI love your simple explanation of evolution let me see if I got it right ( 5386 base-pair phage (some sign my keyborad doesn't even have) -X174 virus to a 3x10^9base pair I'll stop at that mach nonsense. As I stated You can't even say it in English! As far as Survival of the fitest The lamb is so fit.A clear case of it. But again as I stated another evolution thiery It was this and that and maybe a little of this and everthing nice ah. And as to my speeling I have speel check and don't use it and some are done on purpose BUT you can still read it why not your 5386base-pair phage and an and
 

Fade

The Great Master Bates
Oh My God, Alex, what in jumping jehovahs name are you talking about?

Anyhoo, the joke is on you because Atheism and Buddhism go together quite well. Particularly if you view buddhism as a philosophy and not a religion.
 

MdmSzdWhtGuy

Well-Known Member
Majikthise said:
I had to log on just to give you frubals for that one.

As long as I'm here.... AG , I joined the military shortly after graduating from trade school (I GO VOC, DUH!!), and have never attended any universities. I have no trouble getting my point across with all these eggheads.:D

Thank you, on occasion I manage to come up with a gem. (tips cap in acknowledgement of the frubals)

B.
 

murdocsvan

Member
alexander garcia said:
No really it's more like multiply that number by it's self...

Well you have to take into consideration how long its been since weve been single celled organisms. Also the chances arent that small of a mutation which is good. If you did some research then you'd find out loads of babys are born with some form of genetic mutation. It doesnt necessairly mean that one day a baby with a 3rd arm appaeared. Its more a case of slow change. For example people with more hair having difficulty compared to the people with less hair = people with less hair reproduce at a more successful rate.
 

Maxist

Active Member
So? My fellow evolutionists and I will certainly not succumb to creation, artificial or otherwise simply because more people beleive other things. I will not at any rate.
 

Tawn

Active Member
alexander garcia said:
Hi, To the Athiest Buddest HAHA do you realize they don't go together?HAHA Still to Mortuus MonasticaI love your simple explanation of evolution let me see if I got it right ( 5386 base-pair phage (some sign my keyborad doesn't even have) -X174 virus to a 3x10^9base pair I'll stop at that mach nonsense. As I stated You can't even say it in English! As far as Survival of the fitest The lamb is so fit.A clear case of it. But again as I stated another evolution thiery It was this and that and maybe a little of this and everthing nice ah. And as to my speeling I have speel check and don't use it and some are done on purpose BUT you can still read it why not your 5386base-pair phage and an and
Sigh. Please, go and do some careful reading. In other words - educate yourself! Atheism = lack of belief in god.
Buddists believe in reincarnation and have a spiritual understanding of the world, but they do not believe in a god as with monotheistic religions.
Therefore..


Also, please never use the term ' Survival of the Fittest'. Ever. It is a stupid phrase that has worked its way into the dumb masses as a simplistic explanation of Evolution. In truth it is technically wrong and leads to confusion. A better version of the phrase is 'Survival of the most suitable'. That avoids any questions about how evolution explain the existance of butterflys and other 'weak' creatures..
 
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