Jesus did not die on the Cross

Jesus did not die on the Cross


I give Seventh Argument from the Christian scriptures.


Crucifixion was demanded by the Jews: More from NT-Bible

When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. (John 19:6)
The Jews answered him (Pilate), We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (John 19:7)

It was the Jews who demanded it as per NT; but G-d saved Jesus’ life:

The creed that Jesus came to this world voluntarily to be crucified on the Cross for the sins of the Christians is wrong. Jews forced him to be nailed on the Cross by demanding it from the Roman Official. The notion that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Jesus did not die on the Cross


I give Seventh Argument from the Christian scriptures.


Crucifixion was demanded by the Jews: More from NT-Bible

When the chief priests therefore and officers saw him, they cried out, saying, Crucify him, crucify him. (John 19:6)
The Jews answered him (Pilate), We have a law, and by our law he ought to die, because he made himself the Son of God. (John 19:7)

It was the Jews who demanded it as per NT; but G-d saved Jesus’ life:

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

Click to expand...

:biglaugh:


Epic fail.


Are you old enough to be on a computer without parental supervision???

Topic title: Jesus did not die on the Cross
-------------------------------------------

That's conspiracy theory 4522.
Incidentally the Quran says the crucifixion was just an illusion.
That's consp-theory 4523..

Shuttlecraft said:

Topic title: Jesus did not die on the Cross
-------------------------------------------

That's conspiracy theory 4522.
Incidentally the Quran says the crucifixion was just an illusion.
That's consp-theory 4523..

Click to expand...

Please quote from Quran.

Regards

paarsurrey said:

Please quote from Quran.

Click to expand...

Here ya go mate-
[Quran 4.157] "And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so like Isa and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure"

Interestingly, the Quran dare not say Jesus never existed because they knew nobody would buy that, so they said the next best thing, namely that the crucifixion was either a mass illusion, or that a "stunt man" stood in for him!
See, the consp-theories come thick and fast..

paarsurrey said:

Please quote from Quran.

Regards

Click to expand...

Are you old enough to be on a computer without parental supervision???

Shuttlecraft said:

Here ya go mate-
[Quran 4.157] "And their saying: Surely we have killed the Messiah, Isa [Jesus] son of Marium [Mary], the apostle of Allah; and they did not kill him nor did they crucify him, but it appeared to them so like Isa and most surely those who differ therein are only in a doubt about it; they have no knowledge respecting it, but only follow a conjecture, and they killed him not for sure"

Interestingly, the Quran dare not say Jesus never existed because they knew nobody would buy that, so they said the next best thing, namely that the crucifixion was either a mass illusion, or that a "stunt man" stood in for him!
See, the consp-theories come thick and fast..

Click to expand...

Quran does not say it was an illusion.

The Christians and many Muslim believed that Jesus went physically or literally to heaven till such time that G-d revealed Word from Him on the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 that:

1. Jesus s/o Mary did not die a cursed death on Cross.

2. Jesus did not go to heaven or sky physically or literally direct from from the Cross or before Crucifixion or someone else was crucified in Jesus’ place as some Muslims believed.

3. Or that Jesus was laid dead in the tomb where he resurrected from the dead and mythically went to heaven as believed by many Christians.

G-d revealed on the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 the true and correct understanding of the verses in Quran for Muslims as well as correct understanding of verses of NT-Bible which prove undoubtedly that Jesus never died on the Cross but he lived longer and was saved a cursed death on Cross. Jesus died a natural death in India and is buried at Mohallah Khanyar, in Srinagar, in India.

Presently I give correct understanding of the verses of Sura/Chapter 4:157-158/159 of Quran as explained by the Promised Messiah 1835-1908 in his own words:

"Almighty G-d says in the Holy Quran:

The Jews neither murdered Jesus, not did they kill him on the Cross; no, they only suspected that Jesus had died on the Cross; they did not have proof which could have convinced and satisfied them that Jesus (on whom be peace) had really died on the Cross.

Click to expand...

In these verses Almighty God states that although it is true that Jesus was apparently placed on the Cross, and that they were determined to kill him; yet, it is wrong for Jews and Christians to suppose that Jesus did really die on the Cross. No, God created circumstances which saved Jesus from death on the Cross.

Now, if one were just, one must say that what the Holy Quran had said against Jews and Christians turned out ultimately to be true. Investigations of a very high standard to-day have proved that Jesus had really been saved from death on the Cross. A study of the records shows that the Jews have never been able to reply to the question: How was it that Jesus died within two or three hours when his bones were not broken?

This has led the Jews to put in another plea — that they killed Jesus by the sword, whereas the ancient history of the Jews does not show that Jesus was killed by the sword. The majesty and power of the Divine Being made it dark in order that Jesus might be saved. There was an earthquake. Pilate’s wife saw a vision. The Sabbath night was about to fall, when it was improper to let a crucified body remain on the Cross. The magistrate, because of the terrible dream, became disposed towards the release of Jesus. All this was brought about simultaneously by God to save Jesus. Jesus himself was made to go into a swoon that he might be taken for dead. Through terrible signs like the earthquake, etc. there were produced in the Jews cowardice, and fear, and also fear of heavenly punishment.

There was also the fear lest the corpses should remain on their crosses during the Sabbath night. Again, the Jews, seeing Jesus in a swoon, thought that he was dead. It was dark. And there was an earthquake and great excitement. They also became anxious about their homes — how must the children be feeling in that darkness and earthquake? There was also a terror in their hearts that if this man was a liar and a Kafir, as they thought he was, why were mighty signs manifested at the moment of his suffering — signs which had not been manifested before.

They were so upset that they no longer were in a position to satisfy themselves whether Jesus had really died, or what exactly his condition was. What had come about, however, was a Divine Design to save Jesus. This is hinted at in the verse… i.e., the Jews did not kill Jesus — God made them believe that they had killed him. This circumstance encourages the righteous to place great trust in God, that God can save His servants as He pleases.

Jesus in India

Regards

Are you old enough to be on a computer without parental supervision???

paarsurrey said:

..They were so upset that they no longer were in a position to satisfy themselves whether Jesus had really died, or what exactly his condition was.This is hinted at in the [Quran] verse… i.e., the Jews did not kill Jesus — God made them believe that they had killed him..

Click to expand...

Aha a new consp-theory to add to our collection! Let me just make a note of it-
"God made the Romans forget to check if Jesus was dead when they took him off the cross, he wasn't dead at all, so that he could run a scam by pretending to be resurrected later"

Shuttlecraft said:

Aha a new consp-theory to add to our collection! Let me just make a note of it-
"God made the Romans forget to check if Jesus was dead when they took him off the cross, he wasn't dead at all, so that he could run a scam by pretending to be resurrected later"

Click to expand...

Did a physician check that Jesus was dead? Please



Regards

The Romans knew their brutal business and didn't need a doctor to tell them if somebody was dead or not. In fact to make doubly sure Jesus was dead they speared him for good measure-

"When they came to Jesus and found that he was already dead, they did not break his legs. Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water" (John 19:33/34)

paarsurrey said:

Jesus did not die on the Cross


I give Fifth Argument from the Christian scripture.

God always hears Jesus’ prayers and Jesus’ prayers were heard

And Jesus lifted up his eyes, and said, Father, I think thee that thou hast heard me. And I knew that thou hearest me always. (John 11:41-42)

Who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared. (Hebrews 5:7)

G-d heard Jesus’ prayers and saved him death on the Cross.

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

Click to expand...

I believe His final prayer before crucifixion was "Thy will be done." There is no evidence to support the view that Jesus was rescued from the cross. We also have His quote from the Psalms while He was on the cross "My God My God why have you forsaken me?"

I believe your statement is a fabrication and can't be proven.

Nakosis said:

Jesus said it would happen. I don't know the point of picking out certain parts of the Bible to prove something and ignoring others.

Understand I would happily do the same but it becomes a matter arbitrary bias to prove what you want to believe. No real validation required.

Click to expand...

I believe Jesus never said this: quote from Paar -Jesus did not die on the cross; he was put on it but was delivered from it in near-dead position but very much alive.

I believe in looking at contextual scripture and I don't believe in basing my views on bias. However I am willing to refute views based on bias so feel free to do so if you wish.

Albert BROWNSEY said:

The first proof that Jesus Christ was dead and risen is this, that Jesus knew that He would die and rise from the dead:-
John 2:19:- John 2:19-22 (KJV)
19 Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up.
20 Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days?
21 But he spake of the temple of his body.
22 When therefore he was risen from the dead, his disciples remembered that he had said this unto them; and they believed the scripture, and the word which Jesus had said.
A Second Proof is this that of the empty tomb, even when the tomb was under close guard by soldiers to prevent interference:-
John 20:4:- John 20:4-9 (KJV)
4 So they ran both together: and the other disciple did outrun Peter, and came first to the sepulchre.
5 And he stooping down, and looking in, saw the linen clothes lying; yet went he not in.
6 Then cometh Simon Peter following him, and went into the sepulchre, and seeth the linen clothes lie,
7 And the napkin, that was about his head, not lying with the linen clothes, but wrapped together in a place by itself.
8 Then went in also that other disciple, which came first to the sepulchre, and he saw, and believed.
9 For as yet they knew not the scripture, that he must rise again from the dead.
A third proof is this, that He was seen alive by up to 500 people at any one time, see Luke 24:36:-
Luke 24:36-44 (KJV)
36 And as they thus spake, Jesus himself stood in the midst of them, and saith unto them, Peace be unto you.
37 But they were terrified and affrighted, and supposed that they had seen a spirit.
38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts?
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
40 And when he had thus spoken, he shewed them his hands and his feet.
41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat?
42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.
43 And he took it, and did eat before them.
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
A fourth proof is that the disciples were changed beyond belief. Before they had been frightened to death of the authorities, but now they had witnessed the resurrection, they were no longer afraid of death, see Acts Chapter 2.
The resurrection is central to Christianity. In it we have the sure hope of eternal life by the Author of Creation. No other religion comes anywhere near to this reality.

Albert Brownsey
Certainty for eternity

Click to expand...

I believe that gives proof of his death but not that He died. They are two different things.

Jesus did not die on the Cross


I give Eighth Argument from the Christian scriptures.


Why crucifixion?

“Jews wanted him to be killed through crucifixion, so they can prove that Jesus is not a beloved of God, rather the curse of God is on him. Jews could have killed him easily as they were in hundreds of thousands in number and very strong. If killing should have been their desire, they could have done it easily. Just like they paid thirty pieces of silver to one of his disciples, if they would have paid him more, he might have done this service too. But they wanted him to be crucified so they can prove that he is not from God, rather he is an imposter and a fabricator. If he was from God, then God will definitely save him. May be that was the reason that Jesus was so reluctant to suffer on the cross.”

The creed that "Jesus died a cursed death on the Cross" is a fabrication of Paul, the Church and their associates and has got nothing to do with Jesus and his teachings.

Regards

The term "a cursed death on the cross" doesn't really mean "cursed".
For example when criminals are executed today, we don't say they were "cursed"!

Shuttlecraft said:

The term "a death on the cross" doesn't really mean "cursed".
For example when criminals are executed today, we don't say they were "cursed"!

Click to expand...

cursed

Click to expand...

Then what did it mean? Please

Regards

The snooty priests wanted Jesus crucified so that he'd be "cursed" by God, but of course we know Jesus was innocent, so he wasn't cursed at all..

"If a man guilty of a capital offense is put to death and you hang him on a tree, you must not leave the body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is a curse of God. You must not defile the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance" (Deut 21:22/23)

Theology Network - Biblical Studies - The Messiah who was Cursed on the Tree

Shuttlecraft said:

The snooty priests wanted Jesus crucified so that he'd be "cursed" by God, but of course we know Jesus was innocent, so he wasn't cursed at all..

"If a man guilty of a capital offense is put to death and you hang him on a tree, you must not leave the body on the tree overnight. Be sure to bury it that same day, because anyone who is hung on a tree is a curse of God. You must not defile the land the Lord your God is giving you as an inheritance" (Deut 21:22/23)

Theology Network - Biblical Studies - The Messiah who was Cursed on the Tree

Click to expand...

Paul (Church and their associates) accepted this concept of cursed death for Jesus and based on it Atonement of their sins:

Galatians 3:13
“12 However, the Law is not of faith; on the contrary, "HE WHO PRACTICES THEM SHALL LIVE BY THEM." 13 Christ redeemed us from the curse of the Law, having become a curse for us-- for it is written, "CURSED IS EVERYONE WHO HANGS ON A TREE "-- 14 in order that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we would receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.”

Regards

No Christian believes Jesus really was "cursed" by God, it's just a play on words based on the Old T..