Many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

Word · Sep 15, 2014

Hay85 said:
This is a sentence that I consider not Christian. It doesn't make sense to me.
Because God can never choose anyone. There is free will, not predestination or election by God

You disagree with the Bible, beloved.

Romans 8:28-30
And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose.

For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren.

Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.

gzusfrk · Sep 15, 2014

XIII-Legion said:
Matthew 22:14 declares "Many are called, but few are chosen".

Most of you will have a good idea what this refers to.

However, it doesn't do any harm to try obtain a second opinion on this subject.

So then, what do we understand by Matthew 22:14?

What is the meaning of Matthew 22:14?

Read Jesus explanation of the parable of the soils in Matthew, Mark and Luke.

Thief · Feb 2, 2015

The Watcher said:
More generally, how can you be so sure that God's will is always made manifested by the agenda of a secular government, such as your own government in Washington DC?

But in reality, any suggestion there may be a 'causal' connection between God's will and the secular agenda of Western governments would be purely hypothetical or imaginary.

So to recap on your comment that "we would be left standing where we fell", I think you are simply using scaremongering to try to influence and create a more favourable outcome in terms of America's diplomatic ties with its chief 'adversary' in the Pacific; and I resent such interference on your part, since without such interference I could well have ditched your government's invite way back in March of last year.

So the REAL question would be:-

What an amazing coincidence.....
This past day....I was on the road listening to a lengthy preaching about the foundation of the USA.
In detail, the words and intent of our founding fathers as they made good the Declaration of Independence.

The speech is far too much for this post or even this thread.....
but the jest of the sermon was to make certain the listening congregation might understand.....
This country was founded by God fearing men.
They chose their words as carefully as they could hoping all others would follow in the same convictions.....
that we hold these truths to be self evident....

America may well be lax in faith and intent.....we have become an economic society.

As for my previous post.....
I was focused to that hour when we die.
We take what we have become....our manner of thought and feeling.....our dreams.....
and then stand from the dust before heaven....naked.

They will be able to see each one for what we really are.

They will invite us to follow.....or leave us where we fell.

Deidre · Feb 2, 2015

Many are given the gift of God's grace, but only a few will cooperate with it. (this is my understanding)

Deidre · Feb 2, 2015

The Watcher said:
But it depends how you interpret "God's grace".

Strictly speaking, God's grace should only be intepreted in spiritual terms; but such a term shouldn't be misapplied, misused or misinterpreted to refer to success in worldly terms.

For instance, God's grace cannot apply in the example of unexpected invitate to run for office, nor sudden appearance of a new business opportunity.

God's grace has nothing to do with material possessions or wordly power.

Thus, to reject material wealth and worldly power wouldn't amount to rejection of God's grace, which belongs to the spiritual domain, but has nothing whatsoever to do with worldly success or power.

So one should be primarily concerned with God's grace in terms of one's spiritual salvation and rite of passage to heaven -- but who cares about material possessions, VIP status or worldly power, which have nothing to do with God's grace?

Yes, I meant it in a spiritual sense...I've actually never heard of God's grace being referred to any other way.

roger1440 · Feb 2, 2015

It's kind of like the Marines

Thief · Feb 2, 2015

The Watcher said:
But it depends how you interpret "God's grace".

Strictly speaking, God's grace should only be intepreted in spiritual terms; but such a term shouldn't be misapplied, misused or misinterpreted to refer to success in worldly terms.

For instance, God's grace cannot apply in the example of unexpected invitate to run for office, nor sudden appearance of a new business opportunity.

God's grace has nothing to do with material possessions or wordly power.

Thus, to reject material wealth and worldly power wouldn't amount to rejection of God's grace, which belongs to the spiritual domain, but has nothing whatsoever to do with worldly success or power.

So one should be primarily concerned with God's grace in terms of one's spiritual salvation and rite of passage to heaven -- but who cares about material possessions, VIP status or worldly power, which have nothing to do with God's grace?

Deidre said:
Yes, I meant it in a spiritual sense...I've actually never heard of God's grace being referred to any other way.

and I would agree....
Grace is dealt by heaven.....at the Door.
You can't walk among the angelic unless they allow it.
(grace means to allow)

But then again....if you have no ability.....(grace of your own)
being allowed in the Door might be a bit of a trick.

Excalibur · Jun 16, 2015

Thief said:
Maybe the fellow next to you was that poor unfortunate.
He seemed like a nice guy.
And the two of you are dressed much the same way.

No wonder the familiars of the Master made excuses!!!!!!!

However, it's obvious that the Master is allegorical description of God the Father, if not God the Son.
But as Christ is visible expression of the invisible god, it doesn't really make any difference who you're talking about. (Colossians 1:15)
So it's clear that Christ cannot be in the same position as those who have been invited to the wedding banquet, since Christ can only be appropriately described as the Master who has sent invitations.

Obviously, this equation doesn't work if you tried to imagine Christ in the position of those who have been invited, as those who have been invited will have a straight choice between acceptance or refusal to attend; but on the other hand, Jesus will have no choice regarding his acceptance or refusal to attend, which is in view of the Atonement of Christ who is visible expression of the invisible Father in John 14:7.

Atonement means that Christ is visible expression of the invisible God, which implies the Master can either be God or Jesus Christ.
Such an equation can only work if we imagined Christ in the position of Master who has sent invitations, but the equation wouldn't work if we tried to imagine Christ in the same position as those who have been called to attend the feast.

Therefore, it's wrong, misguided, and a fallacy to treat Jesus as if he were an invited guest. As the doctrine of Atonement would preclude Christ being in such a position. Atonement means that Christ can only be the Master.

Thief · Jun 16, 2015

Excalibur said:
However, it's obvious that the Master is allegorical description of God the Father, if not God the Son.
But as Christ is visible expression of the invisible god, it doesn't really make any difference who you're talking about. (Colossians 1:15)
So it's clear that Christ cannot be in the same position as those who have been invited to the wedding banquet, as Christ can only be suitably described as the Master who has sent invitations.

Obviously, this equation doesn't work if you tried to imagine Christ in the position of those who have been invited, as those who have been invited will have a straight choice between acceptance or refusal to attend; but on the other hand, Jesus will have no choice regarding his acceptance or refusal to attend, which is in view of the Atonement of Christ who is visible expression of the invisible Father in John 14:7.

Atonement means that Christ is visible expression of the invisible God, which implies the Master can either be God or Jesus Christ.
Such an equation can only work if we imagined Christ in the position of Master who has sent invitations, but the equation wouldn't work if we tried to imagine Christ in the same position as those who have been called to attend the feast.

Therefore, it's wrong, misguided, and a fallacy to treat Jesus as if he were an invited guest. As the doctrine of Atonement would preclude Christ being in such a position. Atonement means that Christ can only be the Master.

View attachment 9872

I don't see the confusion on my part.

There are many mansions in my Father's House.

I do see the Carpenter as the One who sends out the invitations.
Anyone that responds is at risk.

I say again.....take notice, they who knew the Master....they who received first invitation.....did not show for the banquet.
They made excuses for their absence.

Excalibur · Jun 17, 2015

Thief said:
I don't see the confusion on my part.

Be that as it may, my comment was meant as warning to those (others) who may presume to "know God's will better than Jesus".
For no one may know God's will better than His Son Jesus who is visible image of the invisible God.
So to oppose Christ would be to oppose God's will; and it would be against God's will to oppose Christ.
However, some Christians will conveniently discard such a key point, and key tenet to suit their own purpose -- which is not God's purpose -- whereas in actual fact, they should have known better than to oppose God's will. (John 10:30, 14:7; Colossians 1:15)
The Atonement means that Christ cannot be "Wrong, misled or misguided"; but those who seek to oppose God's will are in the wrong.

Judas is perhaps the most infamous example of those who are "close" enough to have betrayed Jesus.
He betrayed his Master, as Jesus' overall plan was different to what he'd expected.
Had Judas known that Christ is visible expression of the invisible God he would not have betrayed Jesus.
Judas would not have consciously chosen to "oppose" God's will.
But the allegory of Judas is like a general formula.
For who amongst you are in the position of Judas?
Who amongst you will have access to Jesus to betray the Son of Man?
Who amongst you would choose to oppose God's will, and God's purpose?

Thief · Jun 17, 2015

You might go a good deal further with that notion.

Opposition is not always intentional.

Many do good things....even in the Name of the Lord and He knows them not.

There are some here in these days that now suspect Judas was playing out his part by secret instruction of the Carpenter.

and the Carpenter said ....go to your closet and close the door....pray.
and the Father that knows you in secret will hear you.

How much closer can you get?

Excalibur · Jun 18, 2015

Thief said:
Opposition is not always intentional.

Then you presumed to know the Carpenter, when it's not in your place to presume anything.
Wishful thinking doesn't change the fact that you didn't have the Carpenter's permission.
But you didn't see the moral dilemma of pursuing disparate goals, divergent paths, and conflicting interest, which are irreconcilable?

God has no choice but to exclude lost sheep which cannot be saved.
But you've somehow assumed that such people are not beyond redemption?

However, God doesn't want such people who've disobeyed His commandment to enter the Kingdom of heaven.
Thus, God has sent Jesus to flush out those who are wicked, for the wicked may not enter the Kingdom of heaven.

Thief said:
Many do good things....even in the Name of the Lord and He knows them not.

You mean that the King has spies everywhere?

Thief said:
There are some here in these days that now suspect Judas was playing out his part by secret instruction of the Carpenter.

Are you sure about "secret instructions", or more likely eavesdropping?
To instruct means that you've given that person your permission, but eavesdropping implies wishful thinking on the part of Judas.
In the latter case, Judas does not have the Carpenter's permission.
Wishful thinking is when you've presumed to sway another person without least objection on their part.
It means that you've tried to kill two birds with one stone by pursuing disparate goals, divergent paths, and conflicting interest, which are irreconcilable.
But the Bible says that you cannot serve two masters. (Matthew 6:24; Luke 16:13)
You cannot presume to follow Christ and side with those who do evil.
Whoever is not with me is against me, and whoever does not gather with me scatters. (Matthew 12:30; Luke 11:23)

Thief said:
How much closer can you get?

But eavesdropping doesn't mean that you are close.
It just means that you've listened on somebody's private utterance.
Wishful thinking about the Carpenter's "instructions" doesn't mean that you are close.
But it simply means you have taken initiative to act upon it without his due authority.
And you presumed to know the Carpenter's intention?

Thief · Jun 18, 2015

Dude...the Shepard will forsake the flock and seek the one that is lost....
and the Carpenter's instruction about prayer was sufficient.

Glaurung · Jun 19, 2015

XIII-Legion said:
What is the meaning of Matthew 22:14?

God in his antecedent will desires the salvation of everyone. However, our salvation depends on our co-operation with his grace. Knowing in his foresight, that some by the use of their freedom will reject him, he reprobates them consequently. The elect are those whom God in his foresight, knows will ultimately be saved.

Excalibur · Jun 19, 2015

Thief said:
and the Carpenter's instruction about prayer was sufficient.

Wrong. You are simply looking for excuse to say something,
Which the Carpenter didn't want you to say at all.

As you have presumed to know the Carpenter's "instruction about prayer"?
And you presumed to know the content (or intention) of such prayer?

But you have no right to act on "instructions" which he didn't give you,
As you are not the SUBJECT of said "instructions"?
The prayer wasn't ADDRESSED to you at all.

In such regards,
There can be no concept of any "social contract",
Nor legally binding agreement,
Unless the Carpenter (Promisor) OFFERED you something to begin with.
And you cannot accept anything from the Promisor,
Unless he specifically OFFERED it,
And you are the Promisee in this case.

But the Carpenter did Not OFFER you anything at all.
Therefore, you are Not in a position to ACCEPT something,
Which he never OFFERED.

There is no "contract" as such,
And you do Not have his consent to act,
Nor to say anything on his behalf.

You have spoken words which were unauthorized,
Because you do Not have the Carpenter's consent,
And you do Not know the Carpenter's intention.

Besides, you are Wrong in regards to how you've INTERPRETED such prayer.
As you've presumed to know the Carpenter's intention.
But this is nothing but wishful thinking on your part.

In any case, the prayer does not provide any solution,
As to how the lost sheep can be saved,
Because it was never the Carpenter's intention to seek
After those who will not be saved by God's word.

But besides, you already knew the nature of the Carpenter's prayer,
And you knew the Carpenter's intention,
Which is clearly STATED on a document,
Written and signed by his own hand.

You are the recipient of such document,
Which was written and signed,
In Boston MA, in December 2003.

You are the recipient of such document,
Which was signed by his own hand.

So how do you now pretend that such prayer was anything than what was intended?
And the intention is clearly STATED in the Carpenter's own handwriting:-

"Mr George Fiddimore, Wessex Drive, Harp Hill, Cheltenham",
In the period, September 2000 to January 2001.

Wishful thinking doesn't change the Carpenter's intention.
The intention is clearly STATED in his handwriting.
Such intention was DIFFERENT to what you supposed.

Or do you suppose that God is a liar?

Thief said:
Dude...the Shepard will forsake the flock and seek the one that is lost....

But I think you've shot yourself in the foot,
Whenever you express sympathy to those who do evil,
You will shoot yourself in the foot.

Except that they are your own people,
But such tribal mentality won't do you any good in the long term,
When you stand before the Judgement Seat of Christ.

Because the Carpenter said,
"Whoever loves their kin and country more than me is not worthy of me,
And whoever does not take up his cross and follow me is not worthy". (Matthew 10:37-38; Luke 14:26)
(Besides, we know that the Carpenter is visible expression of God's kingdom,
And the Carpenter is Ambassador who represents God's kingdom in Colossians 1:15)
But you are not willing to take up your cross,
And deny such tribal instinct,
Which is why you are not worthy of God's kingdom.

Besides looking for lost sheep, the Carpenter also said other things.
The Carpenter is known to have said,
"Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels." (Matthew 7:23, 25:12, 25:41; Luke 13:27)

As good shepherd, the Carpenter is the only one who is qualified to say whether or not those who are lost can be saved,
But we know that some people are stubborn,
And unrepentant sinners are the most stubborn crowd,
Which will not susceptible to God's word.
For if they do not believe the Gospels,
"they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead." (Luke 16:31)

As God knows exactly what you think,
Everything will be uncovered,
And laid bare before the eyes,
of the Ominiscient Creator
To whom we must give account. (Hebrews 4:13)

For if I had cherished sin in my heart,
The Lord would not listen to me. (Psalm 66:18)

Thus, those who have cherished iniquity in their heart
Will not be acceptable to the Creator,
Nor will they be suitable to enter God's kingdom
On the day of judgement.

For God does not accept people who sin,
And thereby, break His commandment:
Love thy neighbour is God's commandment. (Matthew 22:37-40; Mark 12:30-31 & Luke 10:27)

And you don't seem to understand,
That God's SPIRITUAL LAW forbids this,
Because THE LAW will not allow evildoers,
Nor unrepentant sinners to enter the Kingdom of heaven.

So I remind you here that the Carpenter is Commander-in-Chief and Head of the Church,
And it would be folly for anybody to presume to sway the Sovereign leader of God's kingdom.
For the LORD Almighty has purposed, and who can thwart him? His hand is stretched out, and who can turn it back? (Isaiah 14:27; John 10:30, 14:7; Colossians 1:15)

(Mannstein cannot "control" the Fuhrer,
Anymore than you could EVER persuade the Carpenter.)

You are way out of your league,
As God's Constitutional law, and spiritual law
Are clearly stated in the Bible,
Which does not allow you to interfere,
Nor to instruct the Head of the Church.

So if you care about your kin more than your relationship with Jesus,
Then by all means, you are perfectly entitled to join them before the Judgement Seat of Christ. (Matthew 13:40-42, 25:41; Revelation 20:15, 21:8)

Thief · Jun 19, 2015

I believe we end up with others who think and feel the same way.....mind and heart.

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?

You made a lot of assumptions in the previous post.

I too make assumptions....

Thief · Jun 19, 2015

I see we are moving right along....

Excalibur · Jun 19, 2015

Thief said:
I believe we end up with others who think and feel the same way.....mind and heart.

How else to be happy?
How else to be fair?

Then, I will quote my recent correspondence to the Ambassador:-

[OPEN QUOTE] [For] Those in the position of "Albert Speer" may well be acquitted at the Trial -- And before Judgement Seat of Christ or the Great White Throne Judgement -- but underlings in the position of "Fritz Sauckel" must, and will be exterminated on the day of judgement. (Matthew 13:40-42, Matthew 25:41, Revelation 20:15)

As they are not bourgeois, they do not belong to the extended social circle of Jesus Christ the King of Kings. (Revelation 20:6)

Such people's lives are worthless and expendable; and the death penalty will be stark reminder, and warning to the rest of the world. (Matthew 13:24-43, Matthew 25:31-46) [CLOSE QUOTE]

N.B. As is most often the case, "fair treatment" does not imply "equal treatment".

A Judge will have discretionary powers to issue different penalties for the same crime.

Thief · Jun 19, 2015

and now backing up...

Excalibur · Jun 19, 2015

Thief said:
Opposition is not always intentional.

Many do good things....even in the Name of the Lord and He knows them not.

But what is your definition of "good" in this example?
What is good for one person may not be good for others.
What is "good" is relative to the vantage point of the onlooker,
And how "many" people are we talking about in this example?

A few dozen, or perhaps even hundreds?
And they allegedly do "good" things in the name of Christ?
But their work goes unsung and unnoticed,
Because these very people stalk the corridors of power,
Both in London and Washington DC?

These are political think tanks,
Permanent officials in Whitehall,
And Capitol Hill,
Senior officials in the Church;
Members of the academic community,
And the Intelligence community,
On both sides of the Atlantic.

Amidst secret machinations in the higher echelons of government,
Higher echelons of the Church,
And academic community,
And Secret Intelligence Service,
They all have one thing in common:
Which is that they have presumed to do "good" in the name of Christ,
And they believed they could somehow exploit a "chink in the armour",
A weakness, or perhaps subconscious 'desire' by the Carpenter,
And yet, they've presumed to do "good" in the name of Christ?

But again, this is nothing but wishful thinking on their part,
Which has no substance whatsoever in reality;
But such attempt at diplomatic negotiation,
And such attempt to conciliate conflicting agenda,
Is not diplomacy or compromise in a real sense;
Because they are simply concerned about saving lives,
And protecting their own people at the expense of the Carpenter.

But God doesn't care about your diplomacy,
Which is a man made construct,
And God doesn't operate according to such paradigms,
Which are only meant to protect your interest,
And the interest of your own people.

Call it bigotry, or whatever you will,
But God does not tolerate,
Nor accept those who sin,
But refuse to keep His commandment,
Which was handed to them by Our Lord Jesus Christ. (Matthew 22:37-40, Mark 12:30-31 & Luke 10:27)

God's Law does not allow unrepentant sinners to enter the Kingdom of heaven.
So those who have conspired against the Carpenter will meet their inexorable end in the lake of fire.

But remember that God (Jesus) will always have the moral high ground,
Because the Judge will always have discretionary powers,
And prerogative powers to bar anyone's entry to God's kingdom.

Jesus has every right to refuse entry to those who are persona non grata,
As such persons will continue to sin against God, and their fellow humans.
(1 John 4:20 is inextricably tied to God's first and second commandment ==> Matthew 22:37-40; Mark 12:30-31 & Luke 10:27)

But as God is greater than any human dictator,
And God knows exactly what you think,
Which means the Carpenter will have divine knowledge,
On the right hand of God's power in heaven. (Hebrews 4:13; John 2:24-25)

This means the identity of ALL the conspirators implicated in "July 20th Bomb Plot",
Will be uncovered and laid bare before the Great White Throne Judgement.
Such persons will be completely utterly destroyed on the day of judgement.

Only this time, there won't be any Hans Spiedel left at all,
For not a single soul will escape,
Not even a single soul will be spared,
Before that great and terrible day of the Lord comes.

Many are called, but few are chosen (Matthew 22:14).

With all longsuffering

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