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Was Mary Magdalene the mother of Jesus?

What Bill taught me is that we are all equally important. Homeless, or living in a mansion, God doesn't care more about the person in the mansion. In fact, the person in the mansion should be using his wealth more towards helping his fellow man, impressing God, instead of impressing people with his mansion. And yes, I would much rather replace Pope Gregory with Bill. Bill would never call anybody a whore.
 
I liked the book, the Da Vinci Code, but I don't think Jesus had sexual relations with Mary Magdalene. What concerns me though, is the churches reaction to it. Just like Harry Potter. What is the problem with believing in magic? The bible refers to magicians and sorcerers and astrologers many times without disgust. We just simply need to keep in mind who makes it possible. God. That's what happened to the Egyptians. They had supernatural powers, but they got to the point where they thought they were mightier than God. That was their downfall.
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
steve at JRM said:
Let me believe what I want about Bill. You, nor anybody else will ever change my mind. You weren't here, so reserve your judgement. This debate isn't about Bill anyways, it's about Mary Magdalene (incorrectly reffered to as Mary of Magdalene). Judgement is for the righteous. Are you telling me that your so righteous that you can judge me?

i did not place any judgement on you, i only quoted the judgement you made about the roman catholic church and showedhow that same judgement could be applicable to your belief :162:

it does not matter to me if mary magdalene was his lover, his sister, his mother, his father for all i truely know and care, because my belief is in the central figure...... Jeshua!
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
steve at JRM said:
Let me believe what I want about Bill. You, nor anybody else will ever change my mind. You weren't here, so reserve your judgement. This debate isn't about Bill anyways, it's about Mary Magdalene (incorrectly reffered to as Mary of Magdalene). Judgement is for the righteous. Are you telling me that your so righteous that you can judge me?
Hey, no skin off my nose who you follow. But how then do you judge Pope Gregory or anyone who follows him? Judgement is for the righteous. Are you telling me that your so righteous that you can judge them?

I am not Catholic btw. Pope Gregory is not beloved by me. Nor is the debate about him. I brought that whole bit up to show that other people have known for a very long time that Mary Magdalene and Mary, mother of Jesus, were not the same person, despite what Bill says.


steve at JRM said:
Mary Magdalene was branded a whore by your beloved Pope Gregory (no offense to the current pope if he reads this),
lol! I assure you, Pope Benedict is not reading your post.


steve at JRM said:
because she was a threat to the establishment,
That is one interpretation, which I share. It is certainly not established fact.


steve at JRM said:
just like Jesus. Those in power don't want to lose their followers, so they invent stories about potential competition to hide the truth. That is the truth. That is why Jesus taught over and over again to treat your neighbor as yourself. That is the only path to the truth. Otherwise, we continue to take what our leaders for granted, allowing oppression. Why do you think the church is so worried about Mary Magdalene being the wife of Jesus? If we thought that, we might realize that marriage is not something that can only be legitimized by the church, but by faith. Just like baptism. The bible says over and over the the only true baptism is by the Holy Ghost, not water. Jesus only "suffered" John to baptize him, because it was important to John and the people following him. If Jesus hadn't done this, John would've looked like a quack. The church continues to use these tools to bring people into church. And I wouldn't have any problem if the church establishment were truly in it better mankind. But my recent short stint of going to church only showed me that if you don't believe exactly the way the preacher believes, your an outsider. After several weeks of going to church and generously donating, even though we don't have alot of money, they opened up their food bank to the public for a day. I'm not too proud, so I went down to get a bit a free food. And I took Bill with me, because at the time I was supporting him to. Well, they had two rooms. One for the public, and one for "church members". The public room was mostly junk, and the church members room had all the good stuff. They would only let Bill take from the public area, even though he was more in need than me or anybody else there. Not that Bill ever complained. Nor did he ever say anything bad about anybody. But, frankly, what the church did made me sick. They get deals on food to feed the poor and needy, not just church members. I have since quit going to church. Unfortunately, this is the norm. When it comes to going out of our way to help someone, most people don't want to go into this uncomfort zone, even it's the only true way to know Him.
What does this rant have to do with your original post??! Have we established that Mary Magdalene (aka Mary of Magdala) is not the same person as Mary, mother of Jesus? If so, then I am thankfully done with this thread.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
steve at JRM said:
What Bill taught me is that we are all equally important. Homeless, or living in a mansion, God doesn't care more about the person in the mansion. In fact, the person in the mansion should be using his wealth more towards helping his fellow man, impressing God, instead of impressing people with his mansion. And yes, I would much rather replace Pope Gregory with Bill. Bill would never call anybody a whore.
Oh fer gawd's sake, Gregory said that he believed her to be the same woman whom everyone interpreted as a prostitute, ok? He never used the word, "whore." If I had known that your brain would latch onto this like a pitbull, I never woulda brought it up. Just what does any of this have to do with your OP? Or is this whole thing just an excuse for you to proselytize?
 
Wasn't talking about you Mike. You, at least have intelligently debated with me. Isn't that what this site is about? It's why I'm here. But admin shut down my first thread, without any valid reason. Why? Because what I say doesn't fit the mold. I don't care what people think, because I know the truth. But there are people who are taking me seriously, and I'm here for them, even if they don't want to admit it. I have a sense of humor, but this isn't a joke. To me, it's as real as it gets. And everyone thinks I'm nuts. So. I probably would think I was nuts to if it had not happened to me. But now I'm commited. I'm here to find the truth. And no one has shown me anything to disprove that Mary Magdalene could have been the mother of Jesus. If someone could disprove that without a doubt, then I might change my mind about Bill. But the harder they try, the more I believe Bill. The more is see how ironic it is. A homeless man Jesus? Who would believe? Me. Am I alone? Probably. It's a shame. We complain about the state our world is in. But we only have ourselves to blame. If we all strived harder to understand and follow the teachings of Jesus, earth would be a much nicer place to live.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
steve at JRM said:
Wasn't talking about you Mike. You, at least have intelligently debated with me. Isn't that what this site is about? It's why I'm here. But admin shut down my first thread, without any valid reason. Why? Because what I say doesn't fit the mold. I don't care what people think, because I know the truth. But there are people who are taking me seriously, and I'm here for them, even if they don't want to admit it. I have a sense of humor, but this isn't a joke. To me, it's as real as it gets. And everyone thinks I'm nuts. So. I probably would think I was nuts to if it had not happened to me. But now I'm commited. I'm here to find the truth. And no one has shown me anything to disprove that Mary Magdalene could have been the mother of Jesus. If someone could disprove that without a doubt, then I might change my mind about Bill. But the harder they try, the more I believe Bill. The more is see how ironic it is. A homeless man Jesus? Who would believe? Me. Am I alone? Probably. It's a shame. We complain about the state our world is in. But we only have ourselves to blame. If we all strived harder to understand and follow the teachings of Jesus, earth would be a much nicer place to live.
Well, if I were to claim that Mary, the sister of Lazareth was the mother of Jesus, could you provide any definite proof that I am wrong? You have already discarded the evidence that is staring you in the face, so there is little reason to keep trying.

Oh, and by the way - I asked this in another thread, but then it died. Could everyone that is taking anything Steve says seriously raise your hands? Let's get a count.
 
If admin wants to shut me down, let them. Otherwise I will continue to post. If you don't like what I say, I would hope for a good debate. I started a new thread to get away from being called a wacko about Bill. Where was the mother of Jesus when he was on the cross. Don't you think his mother would have been there? I saw your snide comment (soyleche) on the Bill says thread, concerning the cure for cancer. This is a bit off the subject, but I've found a potential cure. But you wouldn't believe it if I told you.
 

SoyLeche

meh...
steve at JRM said:
If admin wants to shut me down, let them. Otherwise I will continue to post. If you don't like what I say, I would hope for a good debate. I started a new thread to get away from being called a wacko about Bill. Where was the mother of Jesus when he was on the cross. Don't you think his mother would have been there? I saw your snide comment (soyleche) on the Bill says thread, concerning the cure for cancer. This is a bit off the subject, but I've found a potential cure. But you wouldn't believe it if I told you.
She was there. That is pretty well documented.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
steve at JRM said:
Your the one who based your debate upon the Pope Gregory calling Mary Magdalene a whore. Is this how you teach what the pope said?
For the last time, I am not Catholic. But yes, I do trust the pope, any pope, more than I trust Bill, because even if Pope Gregory maligned Mary Magdalene, he at least knew that she and the mother of Jesus were two different people.

John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene."

Case closed.
 
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FFH

Veteran Member
lilithu said:
John 19:25 "Now there stood by the cross of Jesus his mother, and his mother's sister, Mary the wife of Cleophas, and Mary Magdalene."
Case closed.
Nice job lilithu, It's amazing, I just read that this morning and it didn't even occur to me that this was all the evidence that we needed to end this thread.

Nice Job !!!!
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
FFH said:
Nice job lilithu, It's amazing, I just read that this morning and it didn't even occur to me that this was all the evidence that we needed to end this thread.

Nice Job !!!!
:D Well I wish that *I* had known about this passage, 'cause then I could have avoided the whole pope debacle. I was kind of assuming that such a straight-forward passage did not exist. :eek:
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
lilithu said:
:D Well I wish that *I* had known about this passage, 'cause then I could have avoided the whole pope debacle. I was kind of assuming that such a straight-forward passage did not exist. :eek:

You'd actually be surprised on how many straightforward passages there are! :D
 

Quiddity

UndertheInfluenceofGiants
lilithu said:
In a sermon delivered in 591, Pope Gregory declared "She whom Luke calls the sinful woman, whom John calls Mary [of Bethany], we believe to be the Mary from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark."

(Susan Haskins. Mary Magdalene, Myth and Metaphor (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1993) 96 quotes homily XXXIII of Pope Saint Gregory I.)

Mary Magdalene is the woman "from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark." Pope Gregory equated her with the "sinful woman in Luke," cementing the idea that she was a reformed prostitute. I'm not sure who Mary of Bethany is.

In 1969, the church quietly repealed Pope Gregory's labeling and later Pope John Paul II lifted her up as "Apostle to the Apostles."


Lilthu, I want to be clear on how I am taking Mary Magdalene’s recent revival. It has been common for me to bump into people who use Mary’s mistaken identity as a tool for feminist movement and ideologies that I do not agree with. And with The Davinci Code gaining such popularity, I must admit that I’ve been taking it in such a light.

American Catholic says,
Mary Magdalene has been a victim of mistaken identity for almost 20 centuries. Yet she would no doubt insist that it makes no difference. We are all sinners in need of the saving power of God, whether our sins have been lurid or not. More importantly, we are all, with her, “unofficial” witnesses of the Resurrection.

If you wish to read a concise explanation for why Pope Gregory's and others came to such a conclusion I would suggest the following read.
http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=6091

Peace be with you,
~Victor
 

FFH

Veteran Member
lilithu said:
I was kind of assuming that such a straight-forward passage did not exist. :eek:
Yeah, me too, and I had just read that passage about a month ago and again today, and still, it did not register in my brain as evidence against what Steve was saying. I love these debates because it helps to stretch us out of our comfort zones.

We assume the imformation is not there in scripture, but it's all there. The scriptures are perfect. Christ was the author of them ALL. Man had nothing to do with writing them. Christ wrote them ALL, both the Old, and the New Testament. Man was only the instrument in which to record Christ's revealed divine words.

2 Timothy 3: 16

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness"

Now we just need to figure out if there is a scripture that proves that Christ was not married. I know there is one, we just need to find it. I will start a thread with this challenge.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
FFH said:
Now we just need to figure out if there is a scripture that proves that Christ was not married. I know there is one, we just need to find it. I will start a thread with this challenge.

I don't believe there is one, why are you so fixated on this?
 

FFH

Veteran Member
beckysoup61 said:
I don't believe there is one, why are you so fixated on this?
Because it will become a big issue once Dan Brown's film is released. Plus I was surprised that so many people believe that Christ could have been married. Where have I been?. This is something that I thought was a given, that Christ was single and remained single all his life. It's just something I thought everyone else assumed until I first started posting on RF. The subject of Christ being married is brought up in Dan Brown's novel, which I have not read, but is what I have heard. I think he even suggests that Mary Magdelene was his wife.

Mind you I know it is a fictional book, but many will ask the question, "Did Christ marry?. It's a very good question to ask and I think it does deserve our full attention. I know he was not married but I am focusing on it to disprove this false teaching, and I will not give up on disproving this false theory.
 

lilithu

The Devil's Advocate
Victor said:
Lilthu, I want to be clear on how I am taking Mary Magdalene’s recent revival. It has been common for me to bump into people who use Mary’s mistaken identity as a tool for feminist movement and ideologies that I do not agree with. And with The Davinci Code gaining such popularity, I must admit that I’ve been taking it in such a light.

American Catholic says,
Mary Magdalene has been a victim of mistaken identity for almost 20 centuries. Yet she would no doubt insist that it makes no difference. We are all sinners in need of the saving power of God, whether our sins have been lurid or not. More importantly, we are all, with her, “unofficial” witnesses of the Resurrection.

If you wish to read a concise explanation for why Pope Gregory's and others came to such a conclusion I would suggest the following read.
http://www.catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=6091

Peace be with you,
~Victor
In essence what the web site is saying is that it was an honest mistake on Pope Gregory's part based on poor exegesis.

I don't agree that it makes no difference whether Mary Magadalene is considered your garden-variety sinner like we all are sinners or considered a prostitute. It made a huge difference in how she was perceived. It still does, as Steve's reaction shows. He's incensed that she would be called a "whore" but inherent in that indignation is the belief that being a "whore" is one of the worst things that one could be. (I do not share that view personally, or else I would have been more circumspect in my comments.)

And if it was a "mistake" on Pope Gregory's part, of which I am not conviced, it was a mistake stemming from a patriarchal bias. I don't see the recognition of Gregory's "mistake" as a "tool for the feminist movement." I see this as recognizing a clear historical bias within the church. (One person's ideology is another person's truth.) Tho I would be the first to say that such biases occur in other religious traditions as well, and it is somewhat mitigated within the Catholic tradition by the exaltation of Mother Mary. I did not mean to single out the Catholic church for criticism (I didn't not even think that what I said was that controversial) and honestly, if I had known about the John quote proving that Mother Mary and Mary Magdalene were separate people, I would have used that from the beginning and avoided this whole thing.

As always, with respect, even in disagreement. :)
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
FFH said:
Because it will become a big issue once Dan Brown's film is released. Plus I was surprised that so many people believe that Christ could have been married. Where have I been?. This is something that I thought was a given, that Christ was single and remained single all his life. It's just something I thought everyone else assumed until I first started posting on RF. The subject of Christ being married is brought up in Dan Brown's novel, which I have not read, but is what I have heard. I think he even suggests that Mary Magdelene was his wife.

Mind you I know it is a fictional book, but many will ask the question, "Did Christ marry?. It's a very good question to ask and I think it does deserve our full attention. I know he was not married but I am focusing on it to disprove this false teaching, and I will not give up on disproving this false theory.

Actually I thought this way before the DaVinci Code, mind you a lot of people did.
 
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