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Was Mary Magdalene the mother of Jesus?
- Thread starter steve at JRM
- Start date
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Who is this Bill dude and on what authority does he speak? Is he Christian? Because he's clearly ignorant of Christian doctrine. If Mary Madgalene was the mother of Jesus, why on earth would Pope Gregory call her a whore? (A misconception that was only cleared up when Pope John Paul II officially cleared her besmirched name.) Pope Gregory was not calling the mother of God a whore. Clearly, everyone (except Bill) knew that there was more than one Mary in the scriptures. In fact, there were at least three.steve at JRM said:
steve at JRM
Member
Who is Pope Gregory? Why would anybody call someone who Jesus obviously loved a whore? And which Mary is the one that was the Mother of Jesus. The scriptures speak of Mary Magdelene and the other Mary. Was the other Mary the mother of Jesus? I don't think that even the disciples knew. I believe this was meant to be a mystery for our generation to solve. Jesus said that his mother and brethren were those who followed the word of God, even when his disciples pointed out his mother. Why would he do that. And who was the mysterious disciple with the Mary's at the cross. Which Mary did the disciple take to his home? Maybe the mother of Jesus wasn't to be known because she would have been killed too. Bill is a homeless man whom I took in for about a month who said he was "directly linked to Jesus". He is no longer here, but what he said continues to affect me, and to drive me to show people that judging a book by the cover may cause them to not read the book, therefore missing the moral of the story. I explain Bill in full detail on my website. www.jesusrevivalmovement.com.
steve at JRM
Member
By the way, the bible describes Mary Magdalene, not Mary of Magdalene. Magdalene is defined in my bible as "tower; or grand, elevated, magnificent." Magdala is a place, Magdalene is not, according to my understanding of the book of Matthew.
steve at JRM
Member
So a man who is supposedly connected to God, such a Pope Gregory, called a woman who Jesus loved a whore, without any fact to judge her so? This man is nobody who I would quote, nor follow, nor do I believe he knew who Jesus was, or is, or will be. He reminds me of the scribes in the day of Jesus, who preached about His return, but didn't even know Him when he was in their churches, consequently condeming Him to the cross. You see the revolving cause and effect that continues to this day. They were too busy looking down upon the common folk, exalting their own opinions.
SoyLeche
meh...
It's a pretty safe bet that referring to her as Mary Madalene is an idicator of the city she was from, reguardless of what your Bible says (BTW, what verse defines Madalene?)steve at JRM said:
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=magdalene
2 entries found for magdalene.
magdalene
a surname derived from Magdala, the place of her nativity, given to one of the
Marys of the Gospels to distinguish her from the other Marys (Matt. 27:56, 61;
28:1, etc.). A mistaken notion has prevailed that this Mary was a woman of bad
character, that she was the woman who is emphatically called "a sinner" (Luke
7:36-50). (See MARY.)
Source: Easton's 1897 Bible Dictionary
magdalene
Magdalene, a person from Magdala
Source: Hitchcock's Bible Names Dictionary
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
What do you mean who is Pope Gregory?steve at JRM said:
You mean what authority did he have? Or you actually mean who was he? He was a pope. He was one of the earliest popes, like in the sixth century.There would be many answers to that question, but my answer would be because the "cult of Magdalene" was getting too popular. And by "cult" I don't mean a bunch of people who sip cyanide laced kool-aid while they wait for spaceships. I mean those people who believed Mary to have special status as intercessor between us and Christ. In the early days fo Christianity, there were several views of Jesus floating around, portrayed by various gospels purportedly connected to Jesus' followers. That's how they got their street cred. The gospel according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Thomas, Mary... lots more. And the gospel of Mary of Magdala presented Mary has having a special connection with Jesus, particularly beloved. Some scholars believe, and I buy it (others will not) that the patriarchal church was threatened by this elevated status of a woman and also the more mystical view of Jesus that the gospel of Mary presented. This gospel was supressed but the "cult of Mary" lived on. In order to kill the cult, Pope Gregory declared that Mary of Magdala was the same "sinful woman" who washed Jesus' feet in Luke, even tho that woman was never named in scripture. From then on Mary became known as a reformed prostitute. It was great that she was "reformed" and all but it totally destroyed her cred as being particularly beloved of Christ and an effective intercessor.steve at JRM said:
There are more Marys than that. There is Mary, mother of Jesus. There is Mary of Magdala, which Luke describes as a wealthy woman whom Jesus cures of possession. She is one of the first, if not the first, to witness Jesus' ressurection. There is Mary, sister of Martha and Lazarus.steve at JRM said:
I really don't think it's such an intentional mystery. Miriam was a common name at the time. There's bound to be some confusion. But I am quite certain that the disciples knew the difference between Mary, mother of Jesus and Mary Magdalene, even if Bill can't tell the difference.steve at JRM said:
And this was good enough for you?steve at JRM said:
steve at JRM
Member
I referred to the scripture that the definition refers to for its explanation of Magdalene. The following are those verses.
Mark 27:56 "Among which waas Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children"
Mark 27:61 "And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre."
Mark 28:1 " In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."
Now, I find it hard to believe that the bible would refer to the mother of Jesus as the "other Mary", so we might potentially eliminate one Mary besides Mary Magdalene as the mother of Jesus. And by no means does this say that Mary Magdalene was from Magdala. My bible is published by John Hertel for International Sunday School League 1967-68 Edition. There is a bible dictionary in the back that defines Magdalene.
As far as Mary Magdalene being a sinner? Who isn't?
Mark 27:56 "Among which waas Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children"
Mark 27:61 "And there was Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre."
Mark 28:1 " In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene, and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."
Now, I find it hard to believe that the bible would refer to the mother of Jesus as the "other Mary", so we might potentially eliminate one Mary besides Mary Magdalene as the mother of Jesus. And by no means does this say that Mary Magdalene was from Magdala. My bible is published by John Hertel for International Sunday School League 1967-68 Edition. There is a bible dictionary in the back that defines Magdalene.
As far as Mary Magdalene being a sinner? Who isn't?
Mike182
Flaming Queer
im not having a jab at you here, but if you replace the pope gregory with bill then surely you can see why you have recieved the reaction you got. after all, that is the roman catholic belief which you just criticised, but look how similar it is to your belief as described on your web site:steve at JRM said:
steve_at_JRM said:
SoyLeche
meh...
As lilithu already said, there were at least 3 women named Mary among the deciples - and possibly more. "The other Mary" doens't necessarily mean the Mary who was the Mother of Jesus. It could have been one of many people named Mary at the time.steve at JRM said:
I teach the 7 and 8 year olds at church. There are 5 kids in the class. 2 of them are named Emily. People having the same name, especially when they are popular names, is not uncommon.
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
In a sermon delivered in 591, Pope Gregory declared "She whom Luke calls the sinful woman, whom John calls Mary [of Bethany], we believe to be the Mary from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark."Victor said:
(Susan Haskins. Mary Magdalene, Myth and Metaphor (New York: Harcourt Brace & Company, 1993) 96 quotes homily XXXIII of Pope Saint Gregory I.)
Mary Magdalene is the woman "from whom seven devils were ejected according to Mark." Pope Gregory equated her with the "sinful woman in Luke," cementing the idea that she was a reformed prostitute. I'm not sure who Mary of Bethany is.
In 1969, the church quietly repealed Pope Gregory's labeling and later Pope John Paul II lifted her up as "Apostle to the Apostles."
lilithu
The Devil's Advocate
Magdalene means from Magdala; it says so in the dictionary definition that you quoted in some other post. You could just as easily have read these pasages as:steve at JRM said:
Mark 27:56 "Among which was Mary of Magdala, and Mary the mother of James and Joses, and the mother of Zebedee's children"
Mark 27:61 "And there was Mary of Magdala, and the other Mary, sitting over against the sepulchre."
Mark 28:1 " In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary of Magdala, and the other Mary to see the sepulchre."
There were no surnames at that time. That's why Jesus gets refered to as Jesus of Nazareth, to distinguish him from some other Jesus.
There was more than one Judas in scripture. More than one James. More than one John. Surely it's not that big a leap to accept that there were multiple Marys.
steve at JRM
Member
Let me believe what I want about Bill. You, nor anybody else will ever change my mind. You weren't here, so reserve your judgement. This debate isn't about Bill anyways, it's about Mary Magdalene (incorrectly reffered to as Mary of Magdalene). Judgement is for the righteous. Are you telling me that your so righteous that you can judge me?
Mary Magdalene was branded a whore by your beloved Pope Gregory (no offense to the current pope if he reads this), because she was a threat to the establishment, just like Jesus. Those in power don't want to lose their followers, so they invent stories about potential competition to hide the truth. That is the truth. That is why Jesus taught over and over again to treat your neighbor as yourself. That is the only path to the truth. Otherwise, we continue to take what our leaders for granted, allowing oppression. Why do you think the church is so worried about Mary Magdalene being the wife of Jesus? If we thought that, we might realize that marriage is not something that can only be legitimized by the church, but by faith. Just like baptism. The bible says over and over the the only true baptism is by the Holy Ghost, not water. Jesus only "suffered" John to baptize him, because it was important to John and the people following him. If Jesus hadn't done this, John would've looked like a quack. The church continues to use these tools to bring people into church. And I wouldn't have any problem if the church establishment were truly in it better mankind. But my recent short stint of going to church only showed me that if you don't believe exactly the way the preacher believes, your an outsider. After several weeks of going to church and generously donating, even though we don't have alot of money, they opened up their food bank to the public for a day. I'm not too proud, so I went down to get a bit a free food. And I took Bill with me, because at the time I was supporting him to. Well, they had two rooms. One for the public, and one for "church members". The public room was mostly junk, and the church members room had all the good stuff. They would only let Bill take from the public area, even though he was more in need than me or anybody else there. Not that Bill ever complained. Nor did he ever say anything bad about anybody. But, frankly, what the church did made me sick. They get deals on food to feed the poor and needy, not just church members. I have since quit going to church. Unfortunately, this is the norm. When it comes to going out of our way to help someone, most people don't want to go into this uncomfort zone, even it's the only true way to know Him.
Mary Magdalene was branded a whore by your beloved Pope Gregory (no offense to the current pope if he reads this), because she was a threat to the establishment, just like Jesus. Those in power don't want to lose their followers, so they invent stories about potential competition to hide the truth. That is the truth. That is why Jesus taught over and over again to treat your neighbor as yourself. That is the only path to the truth. Otherwise, we continue to take what our leaders for granted, allowing oppression. Why do you think the church is so worried about Mary Magdalene being the wife of Jesus? If we thought that, we might realize that marriage is not something that can only be legitimized by the church, but by faith. Just like baptism. The bible says over and over the the only true baptism is by the Holy Ghost, not water. Jesus only "suffered" John to baptize him, because it was important to John and the people following him. If Jesus hadn't done this, John would've looked like a quack. The church continues to use these tools to bring people into church. And I wouldn't have any problem if the church establishment were truly in it better mankind. But my recent short stint of going to church only showed me that if you don't believe exactly the way the preacher believes, your an outsider. After several weeks of going to church and generously donating, even though we don't have alot of money, they opened up their food bank to the public for a day. I'm not too proud, so I went down to get a bit a free food. And I took Bill with me, because at the time I was supporting him to. Well, they had two rooms. One for the public, and one for "church members". The public room was mostly junk, and the church members room had all the good stuff. They would only let Bill take from the public area, even though he was more in need than me or anybody else there. Not that Bill ever complained. Nor did he ever say anything bad about anybody. But, frankly, what the church did made me sick. They get deals on food to feed the poor and needy, not just church members. I have since quit going to church. Unfortunately, this is the norm. When it comes to going out of our way to help someone, most people don't want to go into this uncomfort zone, even it's the only true way to know Him.
