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Is Hamas Being Delusional?

CMike

Well-Known Member
Mike is a Christian, and he is 100% correct from the perspective of Jews or Christians, because the name "Palestine" was originally coined by 2nd century pagan Roman Emperor Hadrian, in an effort to erase forever the name that God gave to the land.
PALESTINE AND PALESTINIANS

Anyone who calls the land Palestine, whether they know it or not, is parroting a Roman pagan emperor rather than using the name that YHWH assigned to the land as confirmed by the Old Testament or New (with the name itself occurring 2566 times).

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Matthew 2:20 Saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and go into the land of Israel: for they are dead which sought the young child's life. 21 And he arose, and took the young child and his mother, and came into the land of Israel. [/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Matthew 10:23 But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another: for verily I say unto you, Ye shall not have gone over the cities of Israel, till the Son of man be come.[/FONT]

Hadrian slaughtered Jews and tried to erase the name Israel because he hated Jews. No surprise that Muhammad's followers favor Hadrian's name for the land. And is it a surprise that with Frankenstein's Roman church supersessionist inspired antizionism, he would be inclined toward parroting a Roman pagan in an antizionist desire to erase the name Israel too?
REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY OR SUPERSESSIONISM

FearGod, simply consider the company that both he and you keep. Any wonder that it seems antizionists were reluctant to comment on the related thread?
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/general-religious-debates/167494-antizionism-antizionists.html

I am jewish.

Palestine as you said was coined by the romans. It means Phillistines whom have nothing to do with the present day arabs living in judea and samaria.

"Palestine" was part of the british empire. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

4/5ths of the actual british palestine is Jordan. Therefore, the arabs in judea and samaria already have a state in Jordan.

Below is a summary of the conflict.

[youtube]8EDW88CBo-8[/youtube]

[youtube]yfN2IvnIA4M[/youtube]

Israel also has about 1.5 million Israel arab citizens whom have full rights. Their standard of living is greater than any arab country.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
Those who cannot see that both sides of any territorial dispute have legitimate concerns and complaints are condemned to eternal warfare.I hope that's what they aspire to, because that is the only possible outcome.
It's not a territorial dispute it's a religious dispute.

The arab side wants the jewish side DEAD because they exist there.
 

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
Hamas has always been, is and always will be a highly delusional force. Why so many continue to support their agenda is beyond the limits of my understanding.
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
Hamas has always been, is and always will be a highly delusional force. Why so many continue to support their agenda is beyond the limits of my understanding.
That makes two of us.

Also why some people believe that Israel should give away more of the little land it has for some vague promises of peace that never come to fruition is beyond my understanding as well.

Especially when these groups have made it clear they want to destroy all of Israel and kill all the jews make it even more absurd.
 

Leftimies

Dwelling in the Principle
That makes two of us.

Also why some people believe that Israel should give away more of the little land it has for some vague promises of peace that never come to fruition is beyond my understanding as well.

Especially when these groups have made it clear they want to destroy all of Israel and kill all the jews make it even more absurd.

I have absolutely no false hope that Hamas would ever agree to the existence of Israel. Their insistence to use the word "occupation" reflects this: they consider all of Israel to be 'Palestine', jews just happen to 'occupy' it. And their fight against this so-called 'occupation' means, quite frankly, that they will never allow for its existence.

Which is ludicrous, in every sense of the world.
 

Phil25

Active Member
I'm aware of CMike's extremist Zionist rhetoric and I completely reject it, just as I reject the extremist rhetoric of Hamas and Islamic Jihad. I'm not in favor of a Jewish state, an Islamic state or a two-state solution. I do not support ethnicity or religion-based states at all (that can go for Vatican City, too, I don't care since that was only given to the Vatican by the Fascists in the last century). I favor a one-state solution. I think Israel, Palestine and Jerusalem should be unified and transformed into a multiethnic, secular, liberal democracy like we have in the US that is not named either Israel nor Palestine and with a new flag. The Israeli and Palestinian citizens can have both of their citizenships transferred to this new state. No one ethnicity or religion should have overriding claim to that land and it needs to be shared as it is part of the world's heritage now. The UN should enforce this. That's what should've been done in the first place but the stupid British screwed it up and are largely responsible for the mess that exists now.

I'm not your average anti-Zionist, apparently.
The problem its not going to work in reality. How do you expect that people who hated each other for more than a century, to suddenly live together? How do you expect that Islamists and/or Extremeist Jews will not blow Synagogues and/or Mosques up? And why do you think that the above wouldnt result in very violent riots. Something that works in West doesnt necessarily have to work in ME.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Just a reminder that Israel was established by a 2/3 vote in the U.N. to be a Jewish state. Secondly, Israel has roughly 1 & 1/2 million Palestinians living inside of its boundaries, and we certainly don't see a line of them leaving to go live in any other M.E. country. Thirdly, whether Israel should have been re-created is a moot point in real terms since it exists, and to say it shouldn't have been done can also be argued against pretty much any country in the world since people and boundaries have both moved historically. If Israel shouldn't exist, should the U.S., which was taken over by Europeans by force and even genocide, also not exist?

The real issue is where does Israel and the neighboring countries go from here? There are chances for peace, but it's going to take each country there a willingness to do as such, and one or even a small handful of countries cannot do it without the others.

And the religions involved must take the same position. Right now, that's not possible with groups like Hamas, who simply will not accept a Jewish or Christian country in their midst because they consider it all Islamic land.

Is Hamas "delusional"? Not really. Their religious leaders read the Qur'an and Hadith and take them very seriously, and their particular path reflects that. Some religiously-oriented westerners may have a hard time understanding this because they're operating from a different paradigm, especially since religious fundamentalism tends to be no where near as strong in the west, although it certainly can be found here.

Right now, the Islamic fundamentalists are growing in strength, and they threaten not only the entire region, they threaten the west as well. The fight against Hamas is pretty much the same as the fight against ISIS, ISIL, and numerous other groups like them. They're not all one and the same, but their general approach and what it's based on is very similar.
 

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Peter Waldo said:
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]If the Muslims put down their weapons today there would be no more violence.[/FONT]
Your statement proves you have not done your homework. Plus you have a sick, a really sick view of Muslims that comes no doubt from an assumption that Satan is controlling them. Even if that is not the case you still have made a terrible sweeping generalization.

If Hamas puts down its weapons, then the Israelis will relax a little more and the Zionists who believe in a two state solution will be able to form an overwhelming alliance (against the Zionists who don't) in the Knesset. Such an alliance can force Gaza and the West Bank to come to terms. Unfortunately this could result in a delay in the return of Jesus Christ or even a false messiah. Troubling!
 
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MattersOfTheHeart

Active Member
The problem its not going to work in reality. How do you expect that people who hated each other for more than a century, to suddenly live together? How do you expect that Islamists and/or Extremeist Jews will not blow Synagogues and/or Mosques up? And why do you think that the above wouldnt result in very violent riots. Something that works in West doesnt necessarily have to work in ME.

But uptil the 19 century all three groups did live in somewhat peace in that particular area.
It was about 85% Muslim 10% Christian 5% Jewish. Only until Jewish groups decided to want more land titlement did real problems surface.

Good site is
A Synopsis of the Israel/Palestine Conflict
If Americans Knew - What every American needs to know about Israel/Palestine
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
I am jewish.

Palestine as you said was coined by the romans. It means Phillistines whom have nothing to do with the present day arabs living in judea and samaria.

"Palestine" was part of the british empire. Before that it was part of the Ottoman Empire.

4/5ths of the actual british palestine is Jordan. Therefore, the arabs in judea and samaria already have a state in Jordan.

Below is a summary of the conflict.

[youtube]8EDW88CBo-8[/youtube]

[youtube]yfN2IvnIA4M[/youtube]

Israel also has about 1.5 million Israel arab citizens whom have full rights. Their standard of living is greater than any arab country.

What is your evidence that the Romans named the land as Palestine for going against God's will and then who were the Palestinians, Did the Roman invent the Palestinian people that lives till our days.

Your propaganda youtubes are silly ones, Israel came to Palestine by Britain and by their support they occupied the land from the native people.

Jews came from different part of the world to stay in Palestine,from Russia, Poland, German ...etc

Now because there were some Jews that lived in Palestine before 2000 years ago then every Jew of today has the right to live in Palestine and all Palestinians have to find some other place to live in.

Peace will never be achieved and wars will go on year after year and at one point of time an unavoidable disaster will happen.
 

Phil25

Active Member
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MattersOfTheHeart

Active Member
Yes buying Land. How evil.
I don't believe they bought the acreage reported in the new today? What are you referring to?

Can you cite some evidence that all the land they have has been legal transactions? Most of the international community admits that perhaps not all land obtained by Israel is legal.
 

Flankerl

Well-Known Member
I don't believe they bought the acreage reported in the new today? What are you referring to?

Can you cite some evidence that all the land they have has been legal transactions? Most of the international community admits that perhaps not all land obtained by Israel is legal.

You wrote about the 19th century i answered about the 19th century.

Now you are going to switch to today?
 

CMike

Well-Known Member
I don't believe they bought the acreage reported in the new today? What are you referring to?

Can you cite some evidence that all the land they have has been legal transactions? Most of the international community admits that perhaps not all land obtained by Israel is legal.
When Israel became a state they bought the land.

Arab landowners overcharged them for land that was worthless.

Jews came in and through their hard work changed the worthless land to properous land.

In the War Of Independence, Israel told the arab villages that all they had to do was remain netural and Israel would leave them alone. If the arab villages decided to attack them, then they attacked back.

The day Israel decleraed indepedence five arab countries waged war on this tiny country. However, Israel had G-D on it's side and won.

In 1967 Egypt's Nassar vowed to destroy all of Israel and had a trip buildup as well as Syria. Israel asked Jordan not to enter the war.

Israel did a preemptive strike after after Nassar vowed to destroy all of Israel. Jordan then entered the war.

Jordan lost the west bank to Israel. Therefore the arabs that were living there were jordanian.

In fact 4/5ths of the orginial british palestine was in transjordan which became jordan.

Therefore the arabs living in the west bank already have their palestinian state. It's called Jordan.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
What native people?
http://www.zionismchristian.com/history_of_modern_zionism.htm

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]The following quotes and chart are from "Think Israel"[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]http://www.think-israel.org/mandelbaum.arabsnativesoraliens.html[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"The Palestinians in Israel Natives or Aliens?"[/FONT]

[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]In 1835 Alphonse de Lamartine wrote: “Outside the city of Jerusalem, we saw no living object, heard no living sound. . .a complete eternal silence reigns in the town, in the highways, in the country.”[7][/FONT]
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People lived in Palestine long before 2000 years ago, but no one can fix stupidity.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1844, William Thackeray writes about the road from Jaffa to Jerusalem: “Now the district is quite deserted, and you ride among what seem to be so many petrified waterfalls. We saw no animals moving among the stony brakes; scarcely even a dozen little birds in the whole course of the ride.”[8]

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Aha, there were no Palestinians, no Jews, no Christians,no shepherds.
Are you talking about the south pole.
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1857, the British consul in Palestine, James Finn, reported: “The country is in a considerable degree empty of inhabitants and therefore its greatest need is that of a body of population.”[9]
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Yes it was discovered by [/FONT][FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Christopher Columbus.:facepalm:[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1866, W.M. Thomson writes: “How melancholy is this utter desolation. Not a house, not a trace of inhabitants, not even shepherds, to relieve the dull monotony … Much of the country through which we have been rambling for a week appears never to have been inhabited, or even cultivated; and there are other parts, you say, still more barren.”[10]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
The south pole. :yes:
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1874, Reverend Samuel Manning wrote: “But where were the inhabitants? This fertile plain, which might support an immense population, is almost a solitude…. Day by day we were to learn afresh the lesson now forced upon us, that the denunciations of ancient prophecy have been fulfilled to the very letter — “the land is left void and desolate and without inhabitants.” (Jeremiah, ch.44 v.22)[12]
[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
Even the crusaders found no body,no water,no sheep in Palestine.
Jesus was a myth. :facepalm:

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1892, B. W. Johnson writes: “In the portion of the plain between Mount Carmel and Jaffa one sees but rarely a village or other sights of human life… A ride of half an hour more brought us to the ruins of the ancient city of Cæsarea, once a city of two hundred thousand inhabitants, and the Roman capital of Palestine, but now entirely deserted… I laid upon my couch at night, to listen to the moaning of the waves and to think of the desolation around us.”[13]
[/FONT]


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] Where the people of Palestine had Gone, did a comet hit Palestine.

[youtube]fl0USo6q1js[/youtube]
Deep Impact The Comet Hits Earth - YouTube

[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]
In 1913, a British report, by the Palestinian Royal Commission, quotes an account of the conditions on the coastal plain along the Mediterranean Sea: “The road leading from Gaza to the north was only a summer track, suitable for transport by camels or carts. No orange groves, orchards or vineyards were to be seen until one reached the [Jewish] Yabna village. Houses were mud. Schools did not exist. The western part toward the sea was almost a desert. The villages in this area were few and thinly populated. Many villages were deserted by their inhabitants.”
[/FONT]
094c0500.png


[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]"Before the beginning of the 20th century, there were practically no Muslim Arabs in the Holy Land. In 1695 there was not a single Muslim Arab in Gaza, Nazareth, and Um-El-Phachem. All Arabs there were Christians. By contrast, the Jews, despite 2000 years of persecution and forced conversions by various conquerors, have throughout most of history been the majority population in the Holy Land. In Jerusalem Jews were always the largest demographic group [1][2], except for periods when conquerors specifically threw them out and prevented them from returning."[/FONT]

The truth is here

[youtube]n3bxj1uvDXU[/youtube]
The History of Palestine - YouTube
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The truth is here...

A video that just includes only certain information simply is propaganda. It would be like showing certain segments of a soccer game whereas all the good plays of the losing team are shown while ignoring the other good and bad plays.
 
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