outhouse
Atheistically
And reality dictates it was plagairized.
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Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
And reality dictates it was plagairized.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
As I have written earlier; Quran corrects the mistakes of Torah; and brings forth and highlights the teaching that had been hidden by the Torah scribes.
In that sense it does make criticism of Torah; and every book of criticism has to mention the original characters of the book being criticized and the teaching being criticized ; as also quotations from the book being criticized without that the criticism is no ethical.
Quran supports where it is due and criticizes with the norms of ethics of criticism where it is due.
And Quran is very clear about it.
This is not plagiarism; not at all.
Regards
outhouse
Atheistically
Yet you cannot show ONE!!!! single example with any credibility what so ever.
Your only promoting fanaticism
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Then please go ahead and prove that the verses of the twenty chapters of Quran that I have posted in this thread have been plagiarized from Torah, as you allege.
Would you? Please
Regards
no-body
Well-Known Member
Like I said Muhammad and his followers put their own spin on it.
There is no proof one way or another. It's a nice opinion you have. I have mine. I'll go with the one that seems more likely to human nature than supernatural.
outhouse
Atheistically
Actually there is.
All evidence points to blatant plagiarization.
They claim supernatural sources, thus, they loose by default. That is not how credible history is determined.
Credible history already states they took the information and plagiarized it.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
I give below Holy Quran : Chapter 95: Al-Tin:
[95:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[95:2] By the Fig and the Olive,
[95:3] And by Mount Sinai,
[95:4] And by this Town of Security,
[95:5] Surely, We have created man in the best make;
[95:6] Then, if he works iniquity, We reject him as the lowest of the low,
[95:7] Except those who believe and do good works; so for them is an unending reward.
[95:8] Then what is there to give the lie to thee after this with regard to the Judgment?
[95:9] Is not Allah the Best of judges?
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not and cannot be dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.
Regard
I give below Holy Quran : Chapter 95: Al-Tin:
[95:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[95:2] By the Fig and the Olive,
[95:3] And by Mount Sinai,
[95:4] And by this Town of Security,
[95:5] Surely, We have created man in the best make;
[95:6] Then, if he works iniquity, We reject him as the lowest of the low,
[95:7] Except those who believe and do good works; so for them is an unending reward.
[95:8] Then what is there to give the lie to thee after this with regard to the Judgment?
[95:9] Is not Allah the Best of judges?
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not and cannot be dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.
Regard
outhouse
Atheistically
yes.
Abraham - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
By the beginning of the 21st century, and despite sporadic attempts by more conservative scholars such as Kenneth Kitchen to save the patriarchal narratives as history, archaeologists had "given up hope of recovering any context that would make Abraham, Isaac or Jacob credible 'historical figures'
This states they are factually not historical figures.
The Exodus - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Most histories of ancient Israel no longer consider information about the Exodus recoverable or even relevant to the story of Israel's emergence.
No exodus happened, it factually has no historicity.
In either case, the Book of Exodus forms a "charter myth" for Israel: Israel was delivered from slavery by Yahweh and therefore belongs to him through the covenant
Charter myth means it is pseudo history.
and despite differing details they agree on Israel's Canaanite origins.
Historians ALL agree on Israelites Canaanite origin, since the exodus is mythology.
Moses - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The tradition of Moses as a lawgiver and culture hero of the Israelites can be traced to the Deuteronomist source, corresponding to the 7th-century Kingdom of Judah.
This states we see it was a literary creation
That means an exodus of the scale described in the Torah would have been impossible
exodus impossible
While the general narrative of the Exodus and the conquest of the Promised Land may be remotely rooted in historical events, the figure of Moses as a leader of the Israelites in these events cannot be substantiated
Moses as written factually has no historicity.
Still ignoring Muhammad's exposure to Christian & Jewish teachings (through listening)
gnostic
The Lost One
one-answer said:
You don't need to read it in Arabic, to see that it was written by man (technically men). You are being so-fixated by the language itself, that you are completely the contents.
By comparing the stories within the Qur'an itself, against the stories in the Jewish and Christian scriptures and traditions, you can see that the Qur'an is using flawed, inconsistent and disjointed, and sometimes even more embellished than Hebrew/Christian version.
The Qur'an on Solomon, about controlling jinns, is similar to man-made Jewish folklore and fable of Solomon controlling demons and spirits, in the Aggadah (or Sefer ha-Aggadah, stories drawn from Midrash).*
The Legends of the Jews said:
In the Aggadah, it also write of Solomon being able to control or command animals, particularly an eagle, which was large enough to carry him, flying the king where ever he want to.
The Legends of the Jews said:
Qur'an 27:17 said:
The Qur'an make no mention of the king flying on the eagle's back, but it does have Solomon having the ability to understand the speech of animals, particularly of birds and ants, which doesn't appear in the Aggadah.
Qur'an 27:18 said:
The thing about both quotes from the English translation of the Aggadah (The Legends of the Jews, which I had used), are embellishment and exaggeration of man-made Jewish fable, which don't appeared in the canonical version of Solomon, in 1 Kings 1-11, Tanakh or the Christian Bible.
Then there is the Qur'an 34:12, in which Solomon can control the winds, can also be found in the Aggadah.
Qur'an 34:12 said:
The Legends of the Jews said:
These alone (story of Solomon in the Qur'an) and in comparisons to the Midrashic/Aggadahic version that were known in Muhammad's time, is clearly indicative to me that Muhammad must have heard these stories from Jews living in Arabia at that time. It is clear that Muhammad borrowed and modify from one of these sources, and dupe his gullible followers, and all Muslims afterward into believing such fantasy came from your god. And reading both the Aggadah and Qur'an, would also mean that this scripture - the Qur'an - is also man-made.
-----
Source
Aggadah:
The Legends of the Jews, vol. 4, chapter 5 (Solomon), translated by Loius Ginzberg, 1909. (Look under the headings - SOLOMON MASTER OF THE DEMONS and LESSONS IN HUMILITY, for the quotes I had used.)
Last edited:
no-body
Well-Known Member
Of course I'm being very flexible with my definition of "proof" I know. By scientific analysis, yes of course it is most definitely 99.9% plagiarized (or paraphrased to use a friendlier word, in Muhammads own words) but they are always going to use that .1% doubt that science leaves open. It's like arguing with someone who believes the roosters crow brings the sun up.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I don't get you exactly; what do you mean by spin here? Please express yourself fully in your own words.
Regards
Namaste
Because of my ties to Kolkatta (Calcutta), actually I am fairly literate in Islam. But obviously as a Hindu, I do not know all of Islam.
From my hearings of Koran, I would say it's actual origins are much more ancient that thought, living as secret songs and "heard" before it was written.
Nana is a Goddess who may have had mystics keep some of this. She is Nana who lives on another sky place and the Moon crosses her map on certain seasons. Maybe.
Some Koran is not human. There is a Brahman called Allah.
Om Namah Sivaya
Because of my ties to Kolkatta (Calcutta), actually I am fairly literate in Islam. But obviously as a Hindu, I do not know all of Islam.
From my hearings of Koran, I would say it's actual origins are much more ancient that thought, living as secret songs and "heard" before it was written.
Nana is a Goddess who may have had mystics keep some of this. She is Nana who lives on another sky place and the Moon crosses her map on certain seasons. Maybe.
Some Koran is not human. There is a Brahman called Allah.
Om Namah Sivaya
Sabour
Well-Known Member
I have provided the explanation for what you are saying many times.
Yet I would say it once again. All the prophets who came with scriptures ( Torah and Injeel) were muslims. Muhammad peace be upon him was the last prophet and the Quraan renews the msgs of the Torah and the Injeel. Quraan is still preserved for Arabic is still a living language.
outhouse
Atheistically
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
:biglaugh:
It has been decided that since you did not make the font large enough and chose the wrong color for your bold empty claim that your bold empty claim is a nothing more than wishful thinking.
McBell
Resident Sourpuss
Do you know the name of the book that will correct the mistakes god made in the Koran?
Since what you are claiming here is that god did not get it right the first time...
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
I give below The Holy Quran : Chapter 94: Al-Inshirah:
[94:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[94:2] Have We not opened for thee thy bosom,
[94:3] And removed from thee thy burden
[94:4] Which had well nigh broken thy back,
[94:5] And We exalted thy name?
[94:6] Surely there is ease after hardship.
[94:7] Aye, surely there is ease after hardship.
[94:8] So when thou art free, strive hard,
[94:9] And to thy Lord do thou attend whole-heartedly.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted or as comes latest from a posters now spinned from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Regard
I give below The Holy Quran : Chapter 94: Al-Inshirah:
[94:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[94:2] Have We not opened for thee thy bosom,
[94:3] And removed from thee thy burden
[94:4] Which had well nigh broken thy back,
[94:5] And We exalted thy name?
[94:6] Surely there is ease after hardship.
[94:7] Aye, surely there is ease after hardship.
[94:8] So when thou art free, strive hard,
[94:9] And to thy Lord do thou attend whole-heartedly.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted or as comes latest from a posters now spinned from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Regard
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Thanks for your input in the thread.
Yes , Brahma or Brahman is a name of Allah (the One-True-God); all good names/attributes without a blemish are His.
Please express fully other points mentioned by your in your post. Interesting
Regards