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Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
- Thread starter paarsurrey
- Start date
outhouse
Atheistically
Hmm, "anger and hate", I am not sure about that.
But "severe ignorance", most definitely. :yes:
The ignorance sure ticks me off
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
I give below the first ten verses from Chapter No.96 of Quran:[1]
The Holy Quran : Chapter 96: Al-`Alaq
[96:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[96:2] Convey thou in the name of thy Lord Who created,
[96:3] Created man from a clot of blood.
[96:4] Convey! And thy Lord is Most Generous,
[96:5] Who taught man by the pen,
[96:6] Taught man what he knew not.
[96:7] Nay! man does indeed transgress,
[96:8] Because he thinks himself to be independent.
[96:9] Surely, unto thy Lord is the return.
[96:10] Hast thou seen him who forbids
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.
Regard
I give below the first ten verses from Chapter No.96 of Quran:[1]
The Holy Quran : Chapter 96: Al-`Alaq
[96:1] In the name of Allah, the Gracious, the Merciful.
[96:2] Convey thou in the name of thy Lord Who created,
[96:3] Created man from a clot of blood.
[96:4] Convey! And thy Lord is Most Generous,
[96:5] Who taught man by the pen,
[96:6] Taught man what he knew not.
[96:7] Nay! man does indeed transgress,
[96:8] Because he thinks himself to be independent.
[96:9] Surely, unto thy Lord is the return.
[96:10] Hast thou seen him who forbids
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.
Regard
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paarsurrey
Veteran Member
I have myself started the thread "Jesus did not die on the Cross":
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3891481-post1.html
Now one may give one's arguments there.
And everybody is welcome to do it.
Regards
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/3891481-post1.html
Now one may give one's arguments there.
And everybody is welcome to do it.
Regards
outhouse
Atheistically
It is blatantly plagiarized mythology.
Criticism of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Modern critics have criticized Muhammad for preaching beliefs that are incompatible with democracy; Somali-Dutch feminist writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali has called him a "tyrant"[26] and a "pervert".[27] The Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls Muhammad a "mass murderer and a pedophile".
Criticism of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the Quran contains verses which are difficult to understand or contradictory.[69]
Some accounts of the history of Islam say there were two verses of the Quran that were allegedly added by Muhammad when he was tricked by Satan (in an incident known as the "Story of the Cranes", later referred to as the "Satanic Verses"). These verses were then retracted at angel Gabriel's behest.[70][71]
The author of the Apology of al-Kindy Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi (not to be confused with the famed philosopher al-Kindi) claimed that the narratives in the Quran were "all jumbled together and intermingled" and that this was "an evidence that many different hands have been at work therein, and caused discrepancies, adding or cutting out whatever they liked or disliked".[
Criticism of Muhammad - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Modern critics have criticized Muhammad for preaching beliefs that are incompatible with democracy; Somali-Dutch feminist writer Ayaan Hirsi Ali has called him a "tyrant"[26] and a "pervert".[27] The Dutch Party for Freedom leader Geert Wilders calls Muhammad a "mass murderer and a pedophile".
Criticism of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the Quran contains verses which are difficult to understand or contradictory.[69]
Some accounts of the history of Islam say there were two verses of the Quran that were allegedly added by Muhammad when he was tricked by Satan (in an incident known as the "Story of the Cranes", later referred to as the "Satanic Verses"). These verses were then retracted at angel Gabriel's behest.[70][71]
The author of the Apology of al-Kindy Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi (not to be confused with the famed philosopher al-Kindi) claimed that the narratives in the Quran were "all jumbled together and intermingled" and that this was "an evidence that many different hands have been at work therein, and caused discrepancies, adding or cutting out whatever they liked or disliked".[
gnostic
The Lost One
I still think you don't understand, paarsurrey, that in the eyes of literary scholars and history, the Qur'an and hadiths will always been seen as written last, despite the baseless claim by Muslims that the former (meaning the Qur'an) was written by Allah.
There are no evidences to support Allah's divine authorship, but plenty of literary evidences that Muhammad had borrowed the ideas, concepts, including laws and stories, with some modifications to suit Muhammad himself and his followers.
That Muhammad didn't live in complete isolation, so he was exposed to stories of Jews and Christians, who either lived or traded in Mecca or Medina. As a boy, biographer(s) say that he followed his uncle to Syria. How can he go to Syria which at the time was a Byzantine province, not hear of Christian preachers preaching to people, of biblical stories.
Like I said previously, you don't need I to be able to read, to be exposed to biblical stories, when you have people preaching to a bunch of illiterate audience or listeners.
Some of the stories that the Qur'an that you don't find in either the Hebrew Tanakh or Christian Bible, can be found in Jewish or Christian traditions and non-canonical literature, of which they predated Muhammad or the final official copy of the Qur'an.
For example, the story of satan being in the garden of Eden, refusing to bow to Adam, or losing the naming contest of animals to Adam, which do not appear in the Genesis, do appear in rabbinic folklore, in the Aggadah, based on stories found in Talmud and Midrash.
Similarly, the story of Solomon being able to control jinns in the Qur'an, and cannot be found in 1 Kings 1 - 11, can also be found in the Aggadah, in which Solomon can control demons.
Muhammad may change the stories, little or a lot, but the originals can be recognised, which predated Muhammad.
You are only lying or living in ignorant, when you are denying the original sources to Muhammad's stories, were older and definitely man-made.
There are no evidences to support Allah's divine authorship, but plenty of literary evidences that Muhammad had borrowed the ideas, concepts, including laws and stories, with some modifications to suit Muhammad himself and his followers.
That Muhammad didn't live in complete isolation, so he was exposed to stories of Jews and Christians, who either lived or traded in Mecca or Medina. As a boy, biographer(s) say that he followed his uncle to Syria. How can he go to Syria which at the time was a Byzantine province, not hear of Christian preachers preaching to people, of biblical stories.
Like I said previously, you don't need I to be able to read, to be exposed to biblical stories, when you have people preaching to a bunch of illiterate audience or listeners.
Some of the stories that the Qur'an that you don't find in either the Hebrew Tanakh or Christian Bible, can be found in Jewish or Christian traditions and non-canonical literature, of which they predated Muhammad or the final official copy of the Qur'an.
For example, the story of satan being in the garden of Eden, refusing to bow to Adam, or losing the naming contest of animals to Adam, which do not appear in the Genesis, do appear in rabbinic folklore, in the Aggadah, based on stories found in Talmud and Midrash.
Similarly, the story of Solomon being able to control jinns in the Qur'an, and cannot be found in 1 Kings 1 - 11, can also be found in the Aggadah, in which Solomon can control demons.
Muhammad may change the stories, little or a lot, but the originals can be recognised, which predated Muhammad.
You are only lying or living in ignorant, when you are denying the original sources to Muhammad's stories, were older and definitely man-made.
Sabour
Well-Known Member
Take it from some one who knows Arabic, Quraan is not written by any human.
However you don't need to know Arabic to be sure of that.
Maybe you can look up how some people tested the Quraan to see if it was written by a human or not.
And regarding your post, all the prophets were prophets of Islam. They shared the same message and that is why you find the same stories. It isn't because of what you are saying, it is because the torah, injeel, and Quraan are from the same source.
There were followers of Jesus peacw be upon him who already knew the comming of the prophet and were waiting for him so that they will be his followers.
At the start of the revelation of the quraan there were no followers of Muhammaf peace be upon him, there were no followers to the quraan. There were muslims who were followers to Jesus peace be upon him.
Allah sent Muhammad peace be upon him as a last messenger and revealed the Quraan to renew the message of the previous revelations.
Quraan was not revealed to Muslims
It is not a new religion. It is the same.
Besides, Quraan says clearly that Jesus peace be upon him wasn't crucified nor died while according to some christians, the bible says he was crucified and died. Besides there are more differences ...
outhouse
Atheistically
Well you are factually wrong.
Only man has written.
No god would have to copy others mythology
Criticism of Islam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
the Quran contains verses which are difficult to understand or contradictory.[69]
Some accounts of the history of Islam say there were two verses of the Quran that were allegedly added by Muhammad when he was tricked by Satan (in an incident known as the "Story of the Cranes", later referred to as the "Satanic Verses"). These verses were then retracted at angel Gabriel's behest.[70][71]
The author of the Apology of al-Kindy Abd al-Masih ibn Ishaq al-Kindi (not to be confused with the famed philosopher al-Kindi) claimed that the narratives in the Quran were "all jumbled together and intermingled" and that this was "an evidence that many different hands have been at work therein, and caused discrepancies, adding or cutting out whatever they liked or disliked".[
Shad
Veteran Member
No hate here. I just find discussions with such narrow definition covering a topic which can not be restrict to such a definition pointless. There is more than one influence on Islam. Heck why the Torah only? Why not the Talmud also?
The only thing that bugs me is when people cite a Wiki as a source. It not a source as anyone can edit it. Users will insert ridiculous sources or outdated information due to their beliefs or ignorance. These sources can stay on a page for years especially if a page has little to no traffic.
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outhouse
Atheistically
I have family members of this religion. And I hate seeing people like OP promoting stereotypes.
Take it from someone who understands the language of "reason" and "logic". In the Qur'an, Allah is endowed with qualities of perfection. He is all knowing, strong, all hearing, all-seeing, wise and independent of all needs. He is also shown to be in the Qur'an, vengeful, imperious and wrathful.
What you dont understand is that these attributes are mutually incompatible. How can such a perfection be susceptible to [human like weaknesses] anger and desire for revenge? Why should He ever be angry when his strength is absolute? Why should He ever be angry about the ignorance and stupidity of humans like us who are incapable of discerning His existence and mastery of universe?
Those emotional [human like] outbursts in the Qur'an and threats of Hellfire alone prove that the Qur'an is work of fiction. Once you understand that it relates mostly facts about extremely tedious local quarrels.
Feel free to ask about any chapter or verse?
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Having family members of Islam or any religion does not afford you any more wisdom than what is possible within reason. In other words, it means nothing.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
I have so far quoted following twenty short but full chapters from Quran in this thread:
Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where any of the verses of these twenty Quranic chapters have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from.
We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Torah.
Quran is, therefore, the Word Revealed from G-d and authored by Him and is original.
Regards
I have so far quoted following twenty short but full chapters from Quran in this thread:
Our Jewish (or non-Jewish) friends have not been able to quote or reference places of Torah where any of the verses of these twenty Quranic chapters have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from.
We can therefore conclude with 100% certainty that 0% of verses of these chapters of Quran have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Torah.
Quran is, therefore, the Word Revealed from G-d and authored by Him and is original.
Regards
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Sabour
Well-Known Member
Those you are talking about are defined by there actions.
Take Hitler for example, do you think he will be going away with the millions of the innocent lives he has killed?
outhouse
Atheistically
Drop in the bucket compared to how many the Japanese killed in WW2, I believe.
But it is not really on topic is it.
outhouse
Atheistically
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Is Quran copied from Jewish Bible/Torah? : Quran did not copy from Jewish Bible/Torah
I give below the next ten verses from Chapter No.96 of Quran:[2]
The Holy Quran : Chapter 96: Al-`Alaq
[96:11] A servant of Ours when he prays?
[96:12] Tell me if he (Our servant) follows the guidance
[96:13] Or enjoins righteousness, what will be the end of the forbidder?
[96:14] Tell me if he (the forbidder) rejects and turns his back,
[96:15] Does he not know that Allah sees him?
[96:16] Nay, if he desist not, We will assuredly seize and drag him by the forelock,
[96:17] A forelock lying, sinful.
[96:19] We too will call Our angels of punishment who will thrust him into Hell.
[96:20] Nay, yield not thou to him, but prostrate thyself and draw near to God.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.
Regard
I give below the next ten verses from Chapter No.96 of Quran:[2]
The Holy Quran : Chapter 96: Al-`Alaq
[96:11] A servant of Ours when he prays?
[96:12] Tell me if he (Our servant) follows the guidance
[96:13] Or enjoins righteousness, what will be the end of the forbidder?
[96:14] Tell me if he (the forbidder) rejects and turns his back,
[96:15] Does he not know that Allah sees him?
[96:16] Nay, if he desist not, We will assuredly seize and drag him by the forelock,
[96:17] A forelock lying, sinful.
[96:19] We too will call Our angels of punishment who will thrust him into Hell.
[96:20] Nay, yield not thou to him, but prostrate thyself and draw near to God.
The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online
Please prove that these verses have been copied/plagiarized/adapted from Jewish Bible/Torah or any other religious scripture in the world.
Quranic teachings and commandments are elaborate in itself; it is a good tree its branches reach into heaven (truthful Revelation) and its roots are firmly fixed in the Earth (reason, rationality and human psyche); these are not dependent or based on corrupted stories of Torah.
Regard
Your brand of logic is not found in any textbooks based on reason. Your method of employing "if then" form of logic is very flawed.
It is patently obvious many stories in Qur'an are borrowed from prior scriptures. In so doing, it is also obvious Muhammad got some of the facts mentioned in the former scriptures flat wrong. In other words, in retelling of the story, Muhammad revises from the earlier version. For example Did Abraham tried to sacrifice Isaac or Ismael?
This is what people mean by plagiarizing?
Regardless, Quran [or Muhammad] lacks any new original moral principles. Therefore, in the field of moral teachings, the Quran cannot be considered miraculous. Mohammad reiterated principles which mankind had already conceived in earlier centuries and many places. Confucius, Buddha, Zoroaster, Socrates, Moses, and Jesus had said similar things. Surely you are not claiming that Allah copied the words of Socrates and or Confucius! Or are you?
no-body
Well-Known Member
It seems like semantics, of course there is no proof Muhammad literally sat down and copied the torah and the bible word for word. It seems far more likely that he had plagiarized from what he had heard from others around him and put his own spin on it. I have no proof of course, but Muslims have no proof it was God inspired. I'll go with Occam's razor until proven otherwise.