apostasy from Islam

Understood, for me i havn't heard about those who leave islam in my area/country and have been punished by their families and from the public.


Peace ...

ushta

Islam in the Haddith enjoins killing of apostates

" Apostacy, irtidad , which is punishable with death. (Mishkat, book xiv. ch. v.) ashai

ashai said:

ushta

Islam in the Haddith enjoins killing of apostates

" Apostacy, irtidad , which is punishable with death. (Mishkat, book xiv. ch. v.) ashai

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Of course, this is what should be done but they don't do it anymore except in Iran i guess sometimes.

"From one point of view the universe created by God Almighty is divided into two portions. A large portion does that which it is commanded by God Almighty to do, and thus carries out the will of God. The other portion has been given the choice to carry out God's behest or to ignore it. This second portion is man upon whom God Almighty has conferred freedom of action.

Everything besides man carries out that which God Almighty desires it to do. For instance, the Holy Quran says concerning the angels: They do that which they are commanded ( 66: 7). From this point of view everything besides man is an angel, as it does that which it is commanded to do. The winds carry out whatever they are commanded. During a particular season the trees are commanded to shed their leaves and they do so. The fields are sometimes commanded to produce good harvests and they do so. Sometimes God commands them: I am wroth with a certain region of the earth, so let it bring about conditions of famine, and the same region which has previously produced the means of nourishment for the people, thereupon brings about conditions of famine.

Islam is the religion of nature. So far as man is concerned the notion of compulsion in human life is inconsistent with the divine project of the universe, inasmuch as if God Almighty had imposed His will upon man there would have been no difference between man and an animal, or a tree or a stone. Islam being in accord with human nature sets forth a teaching, concerning the freedom of conscience and the freedom of belief, which establishes an ideal for the world. It is not only certain religions that have permitted compulsion in matters of faith, but several philosophic conceptions are also opposed to freedom of conscience and regard compulsion as permissible. Islam does not permit anything of the kind. Islam has established an ideal standard in respect of freedom of conscience. God Almighty has said in effect: This is the religion of nature which comprises perfect guidance. A perfect Book has been revealed. No other teaching fulfils human needs to a greater degree, nor provides greater beneficence for man, nor discloses to man more clearly the ways that bring man nearer to God. It is Islam alone which has thrown open to man all the gates of approach to God. It imposes no compulsion nor does it permit any. In Islam God says: I account compulsion as evil. I proclaim freedom of conscience and guarantee freedom of belief.

Reflection upon the Holy Quran reveals several aspects of this teaching. For instance, it is said: Proclaim, O Prophet, O mankind the Truth has indeed come to you from your Lord. Then whoso follows the guidance, follows it only for the good of his own self, and whoso errs does so only to his own detriment. I am not appointed a keeper over you (10: 109).

Here the Holy Prophet, peace be on him, has been commanded to proclaim to mankind that perfect truth has been presented to them in the Holy Quran in the form of the teachings of Islam. He who accepts it does so only to his own good" and he who goes astray does so only to his own loss. The Holy Prophet is commanded to proclaim that he is not responsible for the people. They them- selves have to provide for their own good, or to earn the wrath of God Almighty. This is not his business. Every soul must bear this responsibility for itself.

It is pointed out that every path that guides to the gardens of the pleasure of God Almighty has been described in the Holy Quran. It is the business of man to tread along them of his own free will, or to turn away from them of his own will. The Holy Prophet, peace be on him, bears no responsibility in that behalf, nor would he exercise any compulsion in respect of it. Again it is said: Proclaim O Prophet: This is the truth from your Lord; then let him who will, believe, and let him who will, disbelieve. We have prepared for the wrongdoers a fire which covers them like a canopy (18:30)."

http://www.alislam.org/books/apostacy/

ashai said:

ushta

Islam in the Haddith enjoins killing of apostates

" Apostacy, irtidad , which is punishable with death. (Mishkat, book xiv. ch. v.) ashai

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But the Hadith is not law. It's tradition of 7th-centrury Arabia. And in this case, it's tradition that conflicts with the Quran. Not everyone lives by Hadith. Not every Hadith is accepted as authentic.

The Hadith is the "sticky point" that is difficult for new Muslims to accept. There is so much question as to its authenticity, and so much of it reflects the lives and traditions of 7th-century Arabia, that many question the validity of living by it. Yes, much is good in the way of living a moral life, but certain components are unacceptable, especially those that conflict with the Quran.

Personally, having been raised a Christian with Western criticism, I was unable to accept the New Testament for all of its contradictions and questionable history. I feel the same about the Hadith.

Everything besides man carries out that which God Almighty desires it to do. For instance, the Holy Quran says concerning the angels: They do that which they are commanded ( 66: 7).

Ushta

2 Questions. Is Iblis and Angel? Does what you said and I quote above imply that angels have no free will?

Ushta Te
Ashai

My own opinion on this is - how can one have a culture that allows honour killings and themselves carry it out and still consider themselves a Muslim? I thought Muslims condemn murder and the Qu'ran speaks against it - how then can Muslims justify murdering someone because they left their religion?

I think you will find that Islam is their culture - it is at the root of their culture, it is what their culture is based on. One cannot let their culture dictate their religion. So i guess it boils down to the fact that the Qu'ran must be flexible enough in its teachings to allow this. If not then why would the people do it?

I totally hate and loathe the concept of issuing Fatahs! If I believed in the Devil, I'd say that it is one demnably devilish idea.

DakotaGypsy said:

I totally hate and loathe the concept of issuing Fatahs! If I believed in the Devil, I'd say that it is one demnably devilish idea.

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Ushta DakotaGypsy

Fatwas, are simply religious rulings on a question, they do not, necessarily have to involve a sanction of what we many consider a despicable act.:bow:

Ushta Te
Ashai

Thank you, Ashai, and ushta to you as well.

I realized late last night that I didn't know how to spell fatwa.

Also, I was extremely upset by the contract put out on Salmon Rushdie. That's a pretty mean and nasty kind of fatwa, if you ask me!

so can we say that fatwa is islamic law and therefore killing those who leave islam an be attributed to islam and not culture?

DakotaGypsy said:

Thank you, Ashai, and ushta to you as well.

I realized late last night that I didn't know how to spell fatwa.

Also, I was extremely upset by the contract put out on Salmon Rushdie. That's a pretty mean and nasty kind of fatwa, if you ask me!

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Ushta DakotaGypsy

By the way Ushta means Happiness through Enlightenment and te to you. :jiggy:

The problem is not the fatwas the problem is Islamic law. There is a whole bunch ( hundreds and thousands, of statements in the Hadiths and or the Quran who have been interpreted by different 'scholars' through out the last 1400 years. They are in the books so to speak. They might never be used but they are there and can be potentially used at any time. If a moolah looks up one of these interpretations and wants to apply it to anything he issues a fatwa, a finding, that such and such a verse or such and such a line of Hadith has been found by such and such a doctor of Muslim law to mean xyz and therefore I issue a fatwa that so and so is guilty of such and such and can be , killed, jailed, shunned, whatever.

That is what happened with the fatwa against Mr. Rushdie!

Now that is the Big problem with Islamic law. You see whatever was said about anything in the last 1400 years can perhaps be applied to any one today. So when a Muslim tells you, that is not in the Quran , it means that it better not be in the Hadiths either. When he tells you, yes that was done in 7 century Arabia but not anymore, it means it is not being done any more, but only as long as some moolah does not dig up a ruling and issues a fatwa.

Ushta te
Ashai

St0ne said:

so can we say that fatwa is islamic law and therefore killing those who leave islam an be attributed to islam and not culture?

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Ushta St0ne

well the law is in the books, if some one with authority, even local authority, wants to use it to issue a fatwa to kill converts, he could do it. In secular and semi secular Muslim countries this can be troublesome for the issuer of the fatwa , it just depends on how powerful are the secularists and how much do they care to prevent murder.

In countries under muslim law, basically , it can be used even against the wishes of the ruling group. because it is legal , even if not enforced. Of course if the powers that be want, they can always find another more senior Moolah to condemn the first and nullify the fatwa.

Ushta te
Ashai

ashai said:

Ushta St0ne

well the law is in the books, if some one with authority, even local authority, wants to use it to issue a fatwa to kill converts, he could do it.

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But the difference is only an Imam can issue a fatwah. Certain persons claim to issue fatwahs, such as Osama Bin Laden, but he's as much of an Imam as George Bush is a priest. Those fatwahs are not authentic, but unfortunately are "accepted" by their followers.

And, every day I rejoice that I do not live in Saudi Arabia and I am not a Muslim.

DakotaGypsy said:

And, every day I rejoice that I do not live in Saudi Arabia and I am not a Muslim.

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Calm down. Islam is not what you watch in TV or what you read in newspapers. You can never learn about islam like that. It creates nothing but hate. You are not living in Arabia, and I am also happy that I am not living in Saudi Arabia
Nothing to do with the essence of Islam. It is not the right way to judge a religion, but you can judge human, who are using it in a wrong direction.

Sorry about bringing up the topic, but today, I have read in the papers that an Afghan is about to be tried and most likely sentence to death because he left Islam and converted to Christianity. Apparently, the police arrested him when they heard he was a Christian.

His name is Abdul Rahman.

Even his own family and community have abandoned him to his fate, simply because he had changed from one religion to another - which in their eyes brought disgrace upon their religion. To the Afghan courts and government laws, Afghanistan is lslamic country, and therefore he would suffered from the severest of penalty.

gnostic said:

Sorry about bringing up the topic, but today, I have read in the papers that an Afghan is about to be tried and most likely sentence to death because he left Islam and converted to Christianity. Apparently, the police arrested him when they heard he was a Christian.

His name is Abdul Rahman.

Even his own family and community have abandoned him to his fate, simply because he had changed from one religion to another - which in their eyes brought disgrace upon their religion. To the Afghan courts and government laws, Afghanistan is lslamic country, and therefore he would suffered from the severest of penalty.

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I posted this same question in perceptions of Islam and was told to refer to this thread for an answer....unfortunately I did not find one.

Several of the Islamic posters didn't think this sort of thing happens today...but looks like it does. The man mentioned above could be sentenced to death for converting to another religion.

Explanations please?

Buttercup said:

I posted this same question in perceptions of Islam and was told to refer to this thread for an answer....unfortunately I did not find one.

Several of the Islamic posters didn't think this sort of thing happens today...but looks like it does. The man mentioned above could be sentenced to death for converting to another religion.

Explanations please?

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Hello everyone,

I am very much happy to see, so many people interested in Islam

This honour killing, is just another weapon the media displays to Maline Islam. I know how many Jews accepted Islam in the morning, and left it at night, why because they wanted to prove that this is not a good religion so we left it.

Noble Verse 2:217 "They ask thee (Mohammed) Concerning fighting In the Prohibited Month. Say: Fighting therein Is a grave (offence); but graver is it In the sight of Allah to prevent access to the path of Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the sacred Mosque, and drive out its members. Tumult and oppression are worse than slaughter. Nor will they cease fighting you until they turn you back from your faith if they can. And if any of you turn back from their faith (Islam) and die in unbelief, their works will bear no fruit in this life and in the hereafter; they will be companions of the fire and will abide therein." Here in this Holy Verse we see that Allah Almighty talks about those who leave Islam, and promises them punishment in the day of judgment. Allah Almighty doesn't order the death of those people.

(tell you something, no muslim ever leaves Islam, it is only a hypocrite, who doesn't know what is Islam, like the jews of Madina)

Simple.....

Have a good day...
Regards,
Mehrosh

Buttercup said:

I posted this same question in perceptions of Islam and was told to refer to this thread for an answer....unfortunately I did not find one.

Several of the Islamic posters didn't think this sort of thing happens today...but looks like it does. The man mentioned above could be sentenced to death for converting to another religion.

Explanations please?

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The only explanation is that the Afghanis are resorting to tribal custom, as nothing in the Quran states that apostasy is punishable by death.