Why do you want God to reveal himself ?

rusra02 said:

The book of Job reveals Satan to be a wicked person, who brought unjust suffering upon righteous Job, killing his children and servants. (Job 1:19) How do we know Satan was not acting on God's behalf in doing this? The book of Job explains; "It is unthinkable for the true God to act wickedly, For the Almighty to do wrong! " (Job 34:10) if God had sent Satan to murder Job's children, have men steal his livestock, and murder his servants, he would be no different from a crime boss who sends henchmen to do harm to others. No, the Tanakh along with the rest of the scriptures reveal Satan to be "a murderer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of the lie." (John 8:44)

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chinu said:

Interesting!
Well, what is the purpose of existence ? please tell me.

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John Martin said:

I understand that the purpose of life or existence is to realize our oneness with God,with all the creation and with every human being and live that truth in our relationships not only with human beings but also with all the other creatures or manifestations of God.

Not seeing this unity leads us to greed, lust, power where we use others as objects of our desires that come from ignorance.

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Ingledsva said:

No it does not.


YHVH points Job out - and sends Satan to test him.


Satan is a servant of YHVH, - whose job is to test.


Read the whole text - it SAYS YHVH is responsible.


Job 1:8 And said YHVH to Satan, do put your regard upon my servant Job for there is none like him on the earth, a man pious and upright, fearing Elohiym and turning from wickedness.

Job 2:6 And said YHVH to Satan, behold, he is in your power, but his life preserve.

Job 2:10 But he said unto her, Thou speakest as one of the foolish women speaketh. What? shall we receive good at the hand of God, and shall we not receive evil? In all this did not Job sin with his lips.


Job 5:17 Behold, happy is the man whom God correcteth: therefore despise not thou the chastening of the Almighty:


Job 6:4 For the arrows of the Almighty are within me, the poison whereof drinketh up my spirit: the terrors of God do set themselves in array against me.

Job 12:9 Who knoweth not in all these that the hand of the LORD hath wrought this?


Job 19:6 Know now that God hath overthrown me, and hath compassed me with his net.

Job 19:9 He hath stripped me of my glory, and taken the crown from my head.

Job 19:10 He hath destroyed me on every side, and I am gone: and mine hope hath he removed like a tree.

Job 19:11 He hath also kindled his wrath against me, and he counteth me unto him as one of his enemies.

Job 19:21 Have pity upon me, have pity upon me, O ye my friends; for the hand of God hath touched me.

Job 20:29 This is the portion of a wicked man from God, and the heritage appointed unto him by God.

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.

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Zec 3:1 And he showed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to accuse him.

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Psa 109:6 Set thou a wicked man over him: and let Satan stand at his right hand.

Psa 109:7 When he shall be judged, let him be condemned: and let his prayer become sin.

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Mat 4:1 Then Jesus was led forth into the wilderness by the Holy Spirit to be tested/proved by the devil.

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Rev 12:10 And I heard a loud voice saying in heaven, Now is come salvation, and strength, and the kingdom of our God, and the power of his Christ: for the accuser of our brethren is cast down, which accused them before our God day and night.


As you can see, it is ABSOLUTELY YHVH whom is responsible for the torture of Job in this story.






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rusra02 said:

Job wrongly thought that God was causing his troubles, unaware at the time that it was really Satan attacking him. Later, Job said "That is why I take back what I said, And I repent in dust and ashes.” (Job 42:6) Satan was trying to prove his claim stated at Job 1:11 and 2:5; "he will surely curse you to your very face.” God's pointing out Job as a man of integrity shows that our integrity to God is important to him. While God permitted Satan to attack Job, he in no way sent him to do so. Rather, Satan wickedly attacked Job out of his own desire to prove Jehovah wrong about Job's integrity. Satan in no way is a servant of God but rather, as the Bible exposes him, "the wicked one." (1 John 5:19)

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Ingledsva said:

Absolute BULL!


This is a teaching story, and if he didn't "KNOW" they would have said so in the wrap-up!


Also - YHVH - points Job out. Satan had been doing his job on earth, and had not paid any attention to a good man. YHVH causes this whole story.

And here is 42:6 in context.


Job speaking

Job 31:3 Is not destruction to the wicked? and a strange punishment to the workers of iniquity?

Job 31:4 Doth not he see my ways, and count all my steps?

Job 31:5 If I have walked with vanity, or if my foot hath hasted to deceit;

Job 31:6 Let me be weighed in an even balance, that God may know mine integrity.

Job 31:7 If my step hath turned out of the way, and mine heart walked after mine eyes, and if any blot hath cleaved to mine hands;

Job 31:8 Then let me sow, and let another eat; yea, let my offspring be rooted out.

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Job 32:1 So these three men ceased to answer Job, because he was righteous in his own eyes.
Job 32:2 Then was kindled the wrath of Elihu the son of Barachel the Buzite, of the kindred of Ram: against Job was his wrath kindled, because he justified himself rather than God.

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Job 34:4 Let us choose to us judgment: let us know among ourselves what is good.
Job 34:5 For Job hath said, I am righteous: and God hath taken away my judgment.

Job 34:35 Job hath spoken without knowledge, and his words were without wisdom.
Job 34:36 My desire is that Job may be tried unto the end because of his answers for wicked men.
Job 34:37 For he addeth rebellion unto his sin, he clappeth his hands among us, and multiplieth his words against God.

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Job 38:1 Then the LORD answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said,
Job 38:2 Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?
Job 38:3 Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou me.

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Job 42:1 Then Job answered the LORD, and said,

Job 42:2 I know that thou canst do every thing, and that no thought can be withholden from thee.

Job 42:3 Who is he that hideth counsel without knowledge? therefore have I uttered that I understood not; things too wonderful for me, which I knew not.

Job 42:4 Hear, I beseech thee, and I will speak: I will demand of thee, and declare thou unto me.

Job 42:5 I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now mine eye seeth thee.

Job 42:6 Wherefore I abhor myself, and repent in dust and ashes.


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In this story - Job is "righteous" - but "VAIN" in that righteousness, and this seems to be why YHVH points him out for "TESTING" by the Tester.


A teaching lesson using an otherwise righteous, Job.


This whole story - including after Job's release - tells us YHVH caused it all!


Job 42:10 And the LORD turned the captivity of Job, when he prayed for his friends: also the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before.

Job 42:11 Then came there unto him all his brethren, and all his sisters, and all they that had been of his acquaintance before, and did eat bread with him in his house: and they bemoaned him, and comforted him over all the evil that the LORD had brought upon him: every man also gave him a piece of money, and every one an earring of gold.


Later Christians misread Tanakh - and made up Satan info that is NOT correct.


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chinu said:

According to me there's a lot difference between the state of affair which one gets after actual oneness with God/whole rather than just exercising oneness with the whole. I don't think, In real terms its possible to see Unity with all the whole manifestation of god before actually being in onenss with God.

Thus oneness with God is the only purpose that I see. And all goodness is just the by-product which come with state of affair which one gets after oneness.

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rusra02 said:

"All his brothers and sisters and all his former friends came to him and ate a meal with him in his house. They sympathized with him and comforted him over all the calamity that Jehovah had allowed to come upon him. Each of them gave him a piece of money and a gold ring." (Job 42:11) I think the inspired record speaks for itself; Satan, not Jehovah, caused the great harm done to Job, just as he causes great harm today. (Revelation 12:12)

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