To those opposed to the Israeli Offensive in Gaza

sandandfoam said:

I think the thing to do is to take the rocket out in the air and work out how to stop the rockets being fired into the future.
I understand that support for Hamas was at something like 15% when the present conflict started. Taking out the launch sites in the open prison that is Gaza means lots of innocent people are dying and from an entirely cynical point of view that can only be counter productive in the long term.

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There is nothing cynical in acknowledging that creating victims fuels hatred and is not something that works to one's own benefit.

Levite said:

Whatever. All the anti-Semitic claptrap about Israel's strikes against Hamas being "unprovoked" or "genocidal" or "illegitimate," all the anti-Semitic rioting and vandalism and verbal abuse in Europe, America, and even other places in the world, under the guise of pro-Palestinian support or humanitarian angst or whatnot-- it's all just a continuation of the same Jew-hating and Jew-baiting that's gone on for centuries. Israel and Middle East politics is just the new cover story.

The irony is that the more these people claim that Israel has no right to exist, the world doesn't need a Jewish State, and then threaten and abuse Jews because of those claims-- the more they prove the need for a Jewish State, and validate the importance of Israel to the world Jewish community.

If any of these people actually gave a damn about humanitarian crises or loss of innocent life or bloodbaths, there would be mass protests and riots about what's going on in Iraq, in Syria, in a dozen different places in Africa. But of course, it's not about humanitarianism or anguish over innocent loss of life. It's about the world hating that the Jewish People have a state, that they are willing to defend themselves and not just sit back and get slaughtered, and that Jews have had the temerity to stand up and demand to be treated as a nation among all the other nations.

It's sickening, but it's nothing new.

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It is not accurate, either. For all that I respect your wisdom, Levite, it has failed you this one time.

It is of course true and regrettable that public outrage over the many troubling situations that happen at any given moment is usually very biased indeed.

However, even taking as a premise that Israel is getting heat better earned by, say, Syria or Nigeria, that is hardly a reason to excuse Israel from the full responsibility of its actions.

Hay85 said:

You defend yourself when you try to prevent your enemy from attacking you.
Not when you attack innocent people, other than your attackers

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The problem is that the enemy is intentionally attacking wanting their own innocent people to do die for the cameras.

However, Israel has a duty to protect it's own civilians.

There alterantive is to let the Hamas strategy of human shields work which would let them to intentionally attack Israeli citizens with impunity.

The other problem is that instead of the world, including the US, condemning and fighting against Hamas, they are propping them up.

Godobeyer said:

Terrorists are murdered Muslims too ,

our problem with zionists in Isreal is :
is blaming Hamas as terrorists group to justify slaying the innocents .

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They are a terrorist groups, and they have been intentionally slaying their own innocents by using them as human shields.

Godobeyer said:

let's comment about this garbage which justify to killing innocents in Gaza :

it's exist , how about the right to RE-exist ?

how about the jews whom disagree with that ?

[youtube]UxqycmRxn18[/youtube]
International Jewish Anti-Zionist Network Condemns Israeli Crimes on Gaza (7-12-14) - YouTube


but it's continous to killing civilians !!!

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Because Hamas is using them as human shields, and despite Israel trying to minimize collateral damage, Hamas is trying to maximize the number of civilians dead.

ametist said:

sorry but it is always catching my attention. you claiming that people hate jews and thats their motivation. i asked you before, why do you think people hate jews?
are we all expected to feel guilty and give extra sensitivity to whereever jews involved (even though we dont have that hatred) without any proper answer to this? why you claim there is hatred to jews?
you heard of circassians? real bad genocide there as well, away from their land, a nation without state. i have neighbours..and we are the citizens of same state now.

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I see no evidence of extra sensitivity since Israel is held to some standard no other country is subjected to.

I presume people the jews because they exist. In Israel perhaps because they took nothing but desert and made it properous while their arab neighbors never achieved this.

Who are the real terrorists.
Here is a list of how the conflict started.
Al-Tira Massacre: December 1947
Haifa Oil Refinery Massacre: December 1947
Balad el-Sheikh Masacre: December 1947
Yehiday Massacre: December 1947
Khisas Massacre: December 1947
Qazaza Massacre: December 1947
Jaffa Massacre: January 1948
Semiramis Hotel (Jerusalem) Massacre: January 1948
Sa'sa' Massacres: February and October 1948
Cairo-Haifa Train Massacre: March 1948
al-Lajjun Massacre: April 1948
Deir Yasin Massacre: April 1948
Qaluniya Massacre: April 1948
Ayn el-Zaytoun Massacre: May 1948
Abu Shusha Massacre: May 1948
al-Tantura Massacre: May 1948
Beit Daras Massacre: May 1948
Lydda Massacre: July 1948
al-Dawayima: Massacre October 1948
Safsaf Massacre: October 1948
Saliha Massacre: October 1948
Eilaboun Massacre: October 1948
Hula Massacre: October 1948…

As of today the massacre continues.
If any human that can justify these massacres then he definately believes in an illuminati God.

CMike said:

They are a terrorist groups, and they have been intentionally slaying their own innocents by using them as human shields.

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An important clarification must be made, CMike. Hamas may well be encouraging or even pressuring their innocents into being human shields, and that is certainly disgusting and reprehensible.

But ultimately, the slaughter is still commited by the IDF.

And if you think that I should release the IDF from the responsibility because there are missiles being launched towards Israel, I must tell you that I'm probably the lesser of your worries.

Never mind me. Think instead of how much more traction Hamas and similar groups will have among the Gazans each and every time their civilians are killed.

Maybe they should blame Hamas at least to some extent. But I don't expect them to, and I doubt you do, either. Feel of course free to set me straight if I am mistaken.

CMike said:

I see no evidence of extra sensitivity since Israel is held to some standard no other country is subjected to.

I presume people the jews because they exist. In Israel perhaps because they took nothing but desert and made it properous while their arab neighbors never achieved this.

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*sigh* people hate jews because they exist?
my ancestors invited you to their own land when you were being treated badly in europe during 1492. you were given shelter, houses and protection and now you even forgot how water was reached through extensive systems to jerusalem during their time and presenting it as if it was a barren land before you. it wasnt.
my ancestors who saved your ancestors were muslim. you lived happily with arabs there and with christians. key of a church under the security of a muslim, door of a jew knocked by an arab muslim.
what has happened? you forgot all the good that has been done to you and now today you dare to blame sons of those ancestors who saved your ancestors as being 'radical islam' because they cant support such a policy of yours in crises?
have you stopped to think perhaps you are really making a mistake?
i dont like to hate. it numbs me towards love. besides have no reason to hate you unless i am seriously and repeatedly given some reasons. do you understand the simplicity of this statement?
also..you can be the chosen people of god, i have no problem with that, fine and dandy but as long as you cant set up the balance and the harmony with the 'unchosen' you cant convince me that there is actually god behind you. you just have your land through whatever means god knows and your problems continues to flourish with them as has happened before and before that.

ametist said:

*sigh* people hate jews because they exist?
my ancestors invited you to their own land when you were being treated badly in europe during 1492. you were given shelter, houses and protection and now you even forgot how water was reached through extensive systems to jerusalem during their time and presenting it as if it was a barren land before you. it wasnt.
my ancestors who saved your ancestors were muslim. you lived happily with arabs there and with christians. key of a church under the security of a muslim, door of a jew knocked by an arab muslim.
what has happened? you forgot all the good that has been done to you and now today you dare to blame sons of those ancestors who saved your ancestors as being 'radical islam' because they cant support such a policy of yours in crises?
have you stopped to think perhaps you are really making a mistake?
i dont like to hate. it numbs me towards love. besides have no reason to hate you unless i am seriously and repeatedly given some. do you understand the simplicity of this statement?
also..you can be the chosen people of god, i have no problem with that, fine and dandy but as long as you cant set up the balance and the harmony with the 'unchosen' you cant convince me that there is actually god behind you. you just have your land through whatever means god knows and your problems continues to flourish with them as has happened before and before that.

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[youtube]wM2S0L6xW5c[/youtube]

Dirty Truth About Israel

You are right that ... that's not how chosen people act ... you have to act like chosen people to remain chosen ... not act like vicious monstrous indiscriminate murderers of women and children...

LuisDantas said:

It is not accurate, either. For all that I respect your wisdom, Levite, it has failed you this one time.

It is of course true and regrettable that public outrage over the many troubling situations that happen at any given moment is usually very biased indeed.

However, even taking as a premise that Israel is getting heat better earned by, say, Syria or Nigeria, that is hardly a reason to excuse Israel from the full responsibility of its actions.

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I'm sorry, but I think you are able to feel free to dismiss the anti-Semitic nature of this because you have not had to suffer anti-Semitism. When it's all around you, when your friends and family suffer because of it, when it's ill-effects permeate your people's history, your family history...you don't take it lightly. And when people turn away from legitimately worse events to focus one-sidedly on the "responsibility" of the Jewish State for having to defend itself...you see it for what it is.

Levite said:

I'm sorry, but I think you are able to feel free to dismiss the anti-Semitic nature of this because you have not had to suffer anti-Semitism.

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It is true enough that I did not have to. In fact, I'm not sure I even know a single anti-Semite. Perhaps a few people here in these forums.

But that is not quite relevant, I think. Having some evidence to convince me that there is anti-Semitism at work would be more productive.

When it's all around you, when your friends and family suffer because of it, when it's ill-effects permeate your people's history, your family history...you don't take it lightly.

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Makes sense.

And when people turn away from legitimately worse events to focus one-sidedly on the "responsibility" of the Jewish State for having to defend itself...you see it for what it is.

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I don't know that I can agree with that. Israel has too much of a military superiority here for me to see it as a victim.

France's Jews Flee As Rioters Burn Paris Shops, Attack Synagogue
This
Anti-Semitism in France(Supposedly one of the most tolerant countries in the world)
This shows why Jews need their own country.

CMike said:

Because Hamas is using them as human shields, and despite Israel trying to minimize collateral damage, Hamas is trying to maximize the number of civilians dead.

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the craziest reply i ever read in my life, so Israel helped Hamas to maximize the civilians dead in Gaza ?

Phil25 said:

France's Jews Flee As Rioters Burn Paris Shops, Attack Synagogue
This
Anti-Semitism in France(Supposedly one of the most tolerant countries in the world)
This shows why Jews need their own country.

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They have you brainwashed well ... with the sympathy drawing propaganda...

I have no idea how Christians who are not treated well at all by these same people are so brainwashed by them....

http://www.haaretz.com/mobile/christians-in-jerusalem-want-jews-to-stop-spitting-on-them-1.137099

loverOfTruth said:

They have you brainwashed well ... with the sympathy drawing propaganda...

I have no idea how Christians who are not treated well at all by these same people are so brainwashed by them....

Christians in Jerusalem want Jews to stop spitting on them Israel News - Haaretz Israeli News source

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At least our churches are not blown up by Jewish bombers.
The thing that happens in Muslim countries.

Phil25 said:

At least our churches are not blown up by Jewish bombers.
The thing that happens in Muslim countries.

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Willis_A._Carto_2010_05-06_TBR;_The_Ugly_History_of_Jewish_Desecration_of_Many_Christian_Sites_in_the_Holy_Land


Israeli Settlers Burn Church in Jerusalem

Israeli Persecution of Christians in the Holy Land - 60 Minutes

The world must realise that Israel’s missiles don’t differentiate between Christians and Muslims

High time Christians wake up to the Israeli brutality...

loverOfTruth said:

Willis_A._Carto_2010_05-06_TBR;_The_Ugly_History_of_Jewish_Desecration_of_Many_Christian_Sites_in_the_Holy_Land


Israeli Settlers Burn Church in Jerusalem - International Middle East Media Center

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<<yawn>>
Still nothing compared to Islamic violence against Christians.

This
Quoting from Christianity in the Middle East - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Palestinian Authority[edit]


About 173,000 Arab Palestinian Christians lived in the Palestinian Authority (including the West Bank and Gaza Strip) in the 1990s.[29] Both the founder of the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine, George Habash, and the founder if its offshoot the DFLP, Nayif Hawatmeh, were Christians, as is prominent Palestinian activist and former Palestinian Authority minister Hanan Ashrawi.
Over the last years, unlike the increase trend in the Christian population of Israel, the number of Christians in the Palestinian Authority has declined severely. The decline of Christianity in the Palestinian Authority is largely attributed to poor birth rates, compared with the dominant Muslim population; and anti-Christian attitudes by radical Muslim organizations and the general Muslim public. The updated number of Arab Christians in the Palestinian Authority is under 50,000.
Gaza Strip
Since the Hamas takeover of the Gaza Strip in 2007, anti-Christian attitudes have been on the increase. Unlike in the Palestinian National Authority, the Hamas administration does not include Christians. From about 2,000[42]&#8211;3,000 Christians before Hamas takeover, as few as several hundred remain in the Gaza Strip under Hamas Administration. Most of the Christians of Gaza relocated to the West Bank or abroad.


Christianity in Israel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
This

Recently, there has been a steady undercurrent of Christian Arabs who seek deeper integration into Israeli society. Under the leadership of Priest Gabriel Nadaf, the "Sons of the New Testament" is a political party that advocates Christian enlistment in the IDF and a more distinct societal separation of Christians from Muslims.[12] This separation is partly based on the purported fact that Christians in Israel are not technically Arabs, seeing as they were present in the holy land long before the Arab conquest, hallmarked by the Siege of Jerusalem. This distinction is in the process of being formalized into law, as the Likud government is currently drafting legislation to grant this request.[13]
This new attitude is founded largely by the perception by some that only in Israel is the Christian population growing due to natural increase and no state persecution, seeing the entire Middle East as where Christianity is and has been rapidly on the decline. In addition, increasing numbers of Christian leaders and community members are pointing to Muslim violence as a threat to their way of life in Arab majority cities and towns.[14] Sons of the New Testament as a party and a national movement has been met with wide admiration from the Jews of Israel, harshly negative scorn from the Muslim Arabs, and mixed reactions from the Christians themselves. Because of Israel's parliamentary system where each party must attain at least 2% of the popular vote, Sons of the New Testament must be supported by non-Christians to enter the Knesset.
Demographics[edit]
Education[edit]
Christian Arabs are one of the most educated groups in Israel. Maariv have describe the Christian Arabs sectors as "the most successful in education system",[1] since Christian Arabs fared the best in terms of education in comparison to any other group receiving an education in Israel.[2] Christian Arabs have one of the highest rates of success in the matriculation examinations, (64%)[2] both in comparison to the Muslims and the Druze and in comparison to all students in the Jewish education system as a group.[2] although lower than the secular Jewish education (64.5%) and the national religious Jewish education (65.9%).[15] Arab Christians were also the vanguard in terms of eligibility for higher education.[2] and they have attained a bachelor's degree and academic degree more than the median Israeli population.[2]
The rate of students studying in the field of medicine was also higher among the Christian Arab students, compared with all the students from other sectors. the percentage of Arab Christian women who are higher education students is higher than other sectors.[1]

Phil25 said:

At least our churches are not blown up by Jewish bombers.
The thing that happens in Muslim countries.

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Phil25 said:

<<yawn>>
Still nothing compared to Islamic violence against Christians.

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You know, I find something funny about your posts.

I can recognize that there are issues with Muslims and Islam itself, and I have enough balls to speak out about it on a regular basis.

You, however, cannot recognize that all Muslims are not the same, and that there are plenty of good and bad Muslims, just like there are plenty of good and bad of any religion. I should collect all of your posts just so you can see how you sound.

If you can't see the propaganda used to paint all Muslims with one broad brush, then there is a real problem here.