Love thy neighbor as much as thyself

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

This golden rule, symbol of Christianity has always been abused across the centuries.

So what do you think about this golden rule? Do you think you put it into practice?

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

Christianity is the main religion of the world. Ans still, the 99 % of Christians do not put this rule into practice.
Because the 1 % (or even less) is represented by saints: Saint Pius of Pietrelcina, Saint Francis of Asis, Mother Theresa of Calcutta, and many others, the so said unknown saints.
"To Love our neighbor as much as ourselves" means that we have to nullify our desires and our selfishness. Even at cost of great pain. But it will be worth it, because we all are called to holiness.
What Christian does it? Nobody: I see only selfish and greedy Christians.
I think that it would be better that the 99 % of Christians became Atheists, because if you don not nullify your selfish desires, it's useless you are Christian.
We can never be saved by an external God. An external God who can save ourselves is pure imagination.
It's you who save ourselves, by creating a Heaven in our hearts. as Saint Pius, saint Francis did.

underthesun · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
I think that it would be better that the 99 % of Christians became Atheists, because if you don not nullify your selfish desires, it's useless you are Christian.

So, do you intend to become an Atheist, then? Or do you consider yourself on the same level as the saints?

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

underthesun said:
So, do you intend to become an Atheist, then? Or do you consider yourself on the same level as the saints?

If I don't reach that level, I surely will become an Atheist

oldbadger · Jul 16, 2014

I know good people, and all that they see in others..... is goodness.
I know bad people, and all that they see in others.......... is badness.

I have a long way to go............
How about you?

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

oldbadger said:
I know good people, and all that they see in others..... is goodness.
I know bad people, and all that they see in others.......... is badness.

I have a long way to go............
How about you?

I am one of those who see goodness in people. That's why I believe that people can save themselves without God. Through free will. Because man is born good, not evil

It's Saint Paul the one who thinks that all men are sinners and can be saved only by God's mercy.

viole · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
This golden rule, symbol of Christianity has always been abused across the centuries.

So what do you think about this golden rule? Do you think you put it into practice?

It might work if you don't hate yourself.

Ciao

- viole

BSM1 · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
Hay85 said:

This golden rule, symbol of Christianity has always been abused across the centuries.

So what do you think about this golden rule? Do you think you put it into practice?

Click to expand...

I think most people have very little idea how to love themselves. This is crucial in understanding the verse and putting it into effect.

underthesun · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
If I don't reach that level, I surely will become Atheist

Do you think your rapid judgement of people based on their looks and whether they're "beautiful" or "ugly" (as shown in many of your posts on other threads) is in any way a step toward sainthood?

jewscout · Jul 16, 2014

I do my best to live by this Mitzvah of the Torah, but even I find myself lacking.

I try to remind myself that I may not LIKE someone, I can still love that person for being "Betzelem Elokim", made in the image of G-d.

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

underthesun said:
Do you think your rapid judgement of people based on their looks and whether they're "beautiful" or "ugly" (as shown in many of your posts on other threads) is in any way a step toward sainthood?

I don't judge people by their looks. But on the basis of their actions.
Evil actions, that is, hurting the neighbor, are very grave sins.

Quintessence · Jul 16, 2014

I have a precept similar to that in the elaborations my own code of honor, but it's phrased in a more straightforward manner: "treat all with respect and tolerance." It doesn't matter if they are my immediate neighbor or not, and it's also made explicit elsewhere that by "all," I really do mean ALL. Not merely human animals, not merely mammalian animals that are sometimes also granted ethical consideration, but everything in this-world and the otherworlds. In a sense, perhaps that makes it more far-reaching than the precept of the Bible, but this makes it neither better nor worse. My code is for myself, not for others, and if one is getting in a contest about who is "more honorable" one is missing the point of having a code of honor, IMHO.

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

Quintessence said:
I have a precept similar to that in the elaborations my own code of honor, but it's phrased in a more straightforward manner: "treat all with respect and tolerance." It doesn't matter if they are my immediate neighbor or not, and it's also made explicit elsewhere that by "all," I really do mean ALL. Not merely human animals, not merely mammalian animals that are sometimes also granted ethical consideration, but everything in this-world and the otherworlds. In a sense, perhaps that makes it more far-reaching than the precept of the Bible, but this makes it neither better nor worse. My code is for myself, not for others, and if one is getting in a contest about who is "more honorable" one is missing the point of having a code of honor, IMHO.

Yes, but probably you respect yourself a bit more than you respect the others. Christianity says that the others' needs have the same value and above all, the same priority, as yours

underthesun · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
I don't judge people by their looks. But on the basis on their actions.
Evil actions, that is, hurting the neighbor, are very grave sins.

...

Hay85 said:
The truth is that American teenagers are really beautiful...In Italy young teenagers are really ugly (because of hormones level changing) so the chances they have to have sex are poor.

Hay85 said:
By they way, If I had a 25 years old daughter who is still a virgin, I would probably kill myself.

Hay85 said:
For example, beautiful people want to become parents just to transfer their beauty to the future generation.

For the same reasons, ugly people will never want to have children, because they don't wanna feel guilty for transmitting ugly genes to their children.

Hay85 said:
Well, yes, maybe we Italians are obsessed with beauty. What's wrong with that?

Hay85 said:
I am not joking. I will never have children because I don't want them to have my genes.

But of course beautiful people have the right to make them

Perhaps you can see why it appears you make judgements based on an individual's looks. And not just normal judgements, either, but declarations over whether people have the RIGHT to make children, based solely on their looks.

Quintessence · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
Yes, but probably you respect yourself a bit more than you respect the others.

No, I don't.

Thanks for asking me instead of assuming incorrectly, by the way. :sarcastic

Hay85 said:
Christianity says that the others' needs have the same value and above all, the same priority, as yours

Great. "Needs" is not quite the same thing as respect, however.

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

underthesun said:
...

Perhaps you can see why it appears you make judgements based on an individual's looks. And not just normal judgements, either, but declarations over whether people have the RIGHT to make children, based solely on their looks.

Your observation has nothing to do with this thread. I just said that beauty exists, but of course ugly people deserve to be happy, to get married and to make children.
I've just underlined that it is so humiliating to be ugly that ugly people prefer no to transfer their genes to their children. I explained the psychological process, I did not justify it.

I understand that in English the word ugly is a bit taboo, but I assure you that we Italians use this word frequently, and people are more self-ironic

Estro Felino · Jul 16, 2014

Quintessence said:
No, I don't.

Thanks for asking me instead of assuming incorrectly, by the way. :sarcastic

I said probably, not surely. Sorry then

Quintessence said:
Great. "Needs" is not quite the same thing as respect, however.

So you are admitting that the others' need don't have the same priority as yours

Quintessence · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
So you are admitting that the others' need don't have the same priority as yours

No.

Let's think about this for a moment, because this issue is a great deal more complex from a philosophical standpoint than I think we've gone into thus far.

Firstly, it must be addressed what precisely is meant by "need." We can think of needs as being broken down into a couple of categories. There are "vital needs" which are required for the survival of an organism (i.e., food, water), there are "peripheral needs" that enhance survival but are not strictly speaking necessary (i.e., shelter, clothing), and then there are "luxury needs" which are in no way necessary for survival (i.e., internet, electricity).

But I'll have to continue this later, because I'm moving and have to finish that.

savagewind · Jul 16, 2014

Quintessence said:
No.

Let's think about this for a moment, because this issue is a great deal more complex from a philosophical standpoint than I think we've gone into thus far.

Firstly, it must be addressed what precisely is meant by "need." We can think of needs as being broken down into a couple of categories. There are "vital needs" which are required for the survival of an organism (i.e., food, water), there are "peripheral needs" that enhance survival but are not strictly speaking necessary (i.e., shelter, clothing), and then there are "luxury needs" which are in no way necessary for survival (i.e., internet, electricity).

But I'll have to continue this later, because I'm moving and have to finish that.

Good! We are aware of what we believe our own needs are. For the most part we are not aware of the needs of others. If sometimes we ARE aware of another's need we might try to fill it but the person we help might abuse the help we give. For instance bailing someone out of debt might give her opportunity to party hard and die of an overdose. I do not love given money to my kids (but I do

) because they smoke cigarettes.

The point is humans are not cabable of knowing what is good for a person, not even what is good for themselves.

roger1440 · Jul 16, 2014

Hay85 said:
Christianity is the main religion of the world. Ans still, the 99 % of Christians do not put this rule into practice.
Because the 1 % (or even less) is represented by saints: Saint Pius of Pietrelcina, Saint Francis of Asis, Mother Theresa of Calcutta, and many others, the so said unknown saints.
"To Love our neighbor as much as ourselves" means that we have to nullify our desires and our selfishness. Even at cost of great pain. But it will be worth it, because we all are called to holiness.
What Christian does it? Nobody: I see only selfish and greedy Christians.
I think that it would be better that the 99 % of Christians became Atheists, because if you don not nullify your selfish desires, it's useless you are Christian.
We can never be saved by an external God. An external God who can save ourselves is pure imagination.
It's you who save ourselves, by creating a Heaven in our hearts. as Saint Pius, saint Francis did.

What do you mean by "main religion"? Please explain. I don't understand what you mean by that.

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