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Mans Law or GOD'S Law

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Jesus fulfilled the Law. Ergo we are no longer under it.

Study Romans and then I COrinthians for a better understanding of this.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
This is a reply to COMMANDMENT 4 for accusing me of adding to scripture!

So you do not believe in the New Testament scriptures I quoted above? I did not add anything, I simply quoted scripture. The scripture you quoted from the Old Testament, and from Mathew, BEFORE Jesus paid for our sins were correct for the Jews for that time. We are not under the Law, but under Grace. We are to be Holy, and love God and others, and do what is right, here, let me show you something.

In Acts, some of the new Jewish Christians tried to make the gentiles observe their old testament laws, let me quote here what happenned:

5:1 And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved.
15:2 When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question.
15:3 And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.
15:4 And when they were come to Jerusalem, they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
15:5 But there rose up certain of the sect of the Pharisees which believed, saying, That it was needful to circumcise them, and to command them to keep the law of Moses.
15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
15:7 And when there had been much disputing, Peter rose up, and said unto them, Men and brethren, ye know how that a good while ago God made choice among us, that the Gentiles by my mouth should hear the word of the gospel, and believe.
15:8 And God, which knoweth the hearts, bare them witness, giving them the Holy Ghost, even as he did unto us; 15:9 And put no difference between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
15:10 Now therefore why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? 15:11 But we believe that through the grace of the LORD Jesus Christ we shall be saved, even as they.
15:12 Then all the multitude kept silence, and gave audience to Barnabas and Paul, declaring what miracles and wonders God had wrought among the Gentiles by them.
15:13 And after they had held their peace, James answered, saying, Men and brethren, hearken unto me: 15:14 Simeon hath declared how God at the first did visit the Gentiles, to take out of them a people for his name.
15:15 And to this agree the words of the prophets; as it is written, 15:16 After this I will return, and will build again the tabernacle of David, which is fallen down; and I will build again the ruins thereof, and I will set it up: 15:17 That the residue of men might seek after the Lord, and all the Gentiles, upon whom my name is called, saith the Lord, who doeth all these things.
15:18 Known unto God are all his works from the beginning of the world.
15:19 Wherefore my sentence is, that we trouble not them, which from among the Gentiles are turned to God: 15:20 But that we write unto them, that they abstain from pollutions of idols, and from fornication, and from things strangled, and from blood.
(King James Bible, Acts)

15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren: 15:23 And they wrote letters by them after this manner; The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting unto the brethren which are of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
15:24 Forasmuch as we have heard, that certain which went out from us have troubled you with words, subverting your souls, saying, Ye must be circumcised, and keep the law: to whom we gave no such commandment: 15:25 It seemed good unto us, being assembled with one accord, to send chosen men unto you with our beloved Barnabas and Paul, 15:26 Men that have hazarded their lives for the name of our Lord Jesus Christ.
15:27 We have sent therefore Judas and Silas, who shall also tell you the same things by mouth.
15:28 For it seemed good to the Holy Ghost, and to us, to lay upon you no greater burden than these necessary things; 15:29 That ye abstain from meats offered to idols, and from blood, and from things strangled, and from fornication: from which if ye keep yourselves, ye shall do well. Fare ye well.

Okay, does that help a little? This is scripture, I did not add to it, Paul did not want them to be under the burden of the law and told them just a few things not to do. We have other commandments for how to live too, in the New Testament, but this is sufficient for now.

 
yes he did fulfill the law. he died for our sins so that we could be forgiven. I'm talking about the commandments. He said till heaven and earth pass away we should keep his commandments and that is one of them.
we have been given the choice to keep his commandments after Jesus' death. If we break one then we can be forgiven by asking for forgivness. That is what he died for.
yes his death took away sacrificing and the levitical law but this is part of the 10 commandments.

so what It sounds like to me is that the 4th commandment no longer stands to you because Jesus died right?
so since Jesus died we can go against the 10 commandments?
or is it just that one?
i'm trying to understand you
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
commandment4 said:
yes he did fulfill the law. he died for our sins so that we could be forgiven. I'm talking about the commandments. He said till heaven and earth pass away we should keep his commandments and that is one of them.
we have been given the choice to keep his commandments after Jesus' death. If we break one then we can be forgiven by asking for forgivness. That is what he died for.
yes his death took away sacrificing and the levitical law but this is part of the 10 commandments.
All laws have been superceded by two: Love God and Love everyone else. If you don't sacrifice a bull every year, then why do you feel that you have to keep the Sabbath? What was Jesus' favorite verse?

"I desire mercy and not sacrifice" NIV

He quoted this more than any other verse (that is recorded).
 
IT IS ONE OF THE 10 COMMANDMENTS
are you saying because Jesus died the 4th commandment no longer stands???????
all the others do just not the 4th????
or do non of the 10 commandments stand cause I don't see why he would just pick that one out and say you don't have to go by that anymore.....
I just can't believe that he would change his commandments
the 10 commandments weren't the levitical law (which was fulfilled when Jesus died) but it was Gods commandments
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Its all part of going back under the Law, it was a burden no man could keep, it was to show us our sinfulness and need of a Saviour. It was for the Jews in a certain age. We are now in a new age, the church age under grace. There have been different ages since the world began, the age of innocence in the Garden, the age of Conscience wher men did what was right in their own eyes, Noah's time, then the age of Human Government, which had some laws, like for murder, that was Tower of Babel time etc. Then tthe aged or Promise to Abraham, then with Moses the Age of the Law for the Jews. Now we are in the age of grace, and next the age of the millenial kingdom, then eternity future. God deals the same, but different with different people of different ages. The age of grace, the church age, the Bible says we are no longer under the law. The whole great pinnacle of human history when Christ Rose from the tomb, changed everything, you can see it in my verses in the above posts. We celebrate Sunday because of the importance of the ressurrection of our Lord and Saviour. I think Saturday is still special to God for he made it as a day of rest in the beginning, and I hold it as special, but we are no longer under the law, but grace. Its all about Jesus, He is Lord and so we worship Him on Sunday, resurrection day! Re-read this verse please, it is from the Bible:

2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(King James Bible, Colossians)

2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
(King James Bible, Galatians)
Actually, read the whole book at least through chapter 3, and read Romans, it explains the relationship of grace and law.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Maybe this will help to explain my view:
7:1 Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth? 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
7:3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.
7:5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
7:8 But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
7:9 For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
7:10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
7:11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
7:12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
7:14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.
7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
7:16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
7:17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
7:19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
7:20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
7:21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.
7:22 For I delight in the law of God after the inward man: 7:23 But I see another law in my members, warring against the law of my mind, and bringing me into captivity to the law of sin which is in my members.
7:24 O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? 7:25 I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin.
8:1 There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
(King James Bible, Romans)

notice 7:7, Paul said of the law, that he would not known sin but by the law, he would not know lust except the law said thou shalt not covet. That is one of the ten commandments, you see? What the law could not do, for it could only show us our sinfulness for no man can keep the law, Christ did! That is why we celebrate and worship Him on Sunday, He changed everything! Maybe I can search and try to find someone who can explain it better than me, but consider these posts, anyway. Just remember we don't frustrate the grace of Christ by adding to it the Law. We are saved by having believed in Christ who paid for our sins as a free gift, and nothing else. Not belief plus the law, sacraments, a certain church, or rituals or whatever, we are saved by the blood of Christ, his undeserved merit.

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(King James Bible, Ephesians)

We are saved freely good works following, not to get or keep saved, but because we are saved.

3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
3:21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 3:22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.
3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith.
3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law.

That should explain it somewhat too, hope all this helps, Peace!
Mike
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
commandment4 said:
so we don't have to go by the 10 commandments because it's part of the old law?
is that what your saying?

No, actually MOST of the ten commandments are repeated in the epistles written after Christ died and rose again, so we are to keep them. But notice, Sabbath Keeping was NOT repeated in the epistles, it actually said not to judge folks in that matter, cuz salvation was to everyone now, not just the Jews. The Jews had a problem of trying to get the gentile believers back under their laws and were sharply repromanded for it, as seen in Acts, in my posts above.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
commandment4 said:
so we don't have to go by the 10 commandments because it's part of the old law?
is that what your saying?
No, that's what Jesus and the Apostles said. I just agree and try to live my life accordingly. Unlike the Israelites, we have the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to help us apply Jesus' two laws.

II Corinthians 3:7 Now if the ministry that brought death, which was engraved in letters on stone, came with glory, so that the Israelites could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of its glory, fading though it was, 8 will not the ministry of the Spirit be even more glorious? 9 If the ministry that condemns men is glorious, how much more glorious is the ministry that brings righteousness! 10 For what was glorious has no glory now in comparison with the surpassing glory. 11 And if what was fading away came with glory, how much greater is the glory of that which lasts!
12 Therefore, since we have such a hope, we are very bold. 13 We are not like Moses, who would put a veil over his face to keep the Israelites from gazing at it while the radiance was fading away. 14 But their minds were made dull, for to this day the same veil remains when the old covenant is read. It has not been removed, because only in Christ is it taken away. 15 Even to this day when Moses is read, a veil covers their hearts. 16 But whenever anyone turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 And we, who with unveiled faces all reflect the Lord's glory, are being transformed into his likeness with ever-increasing glory, which comes from the Lord, who is the Spirit. NIV

So WHAT was engraved on tablets of stone? The Ten Commandments aka "The Ministry of Death". Again, a thorough reading of Romans, II Corinthians and even Hebrews will put all of this into perspective.
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
I think it's odd everybody quoting what man has said what he says God said. To me, the only credible law is the laws of nature and what you know inside of you. Those to me are God's laws. What makes sense. Not words that justified something man wanted others to do over 2000 years ago.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
Jefffrey, I liked your pic of your truck and all. cool. But to answer the above, most of us debating on this thread here believe the Bible to be God's Word, and that is why we use it for doctrine etc. As the book of II Timothy says:

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works
(King James Bible, 2 Timothy)

And Peter says:

1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
(King James Bible, 2 Peter)

So, please understand, this is what we go by, and nothing else, the Word of God, it is all we have and all we really need, the Holy Spirit and our mind and spirit, helping to guide us through it. And its not all that easy is it? Anyway, stay cool, and peace!
Mike
 

jeffrey

†ßig Dog†
joeboonda said:
Jefffrey, I liked your pic of your truck and all. cool. But to answer the above, most of us debating on this thread here believe the Bible to be God's Word, and that is why we use it for doctrine etc. As the book of II Timothy says:

3:16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works
(King James Bible, 2 Timothy)

And Peter says:

1:21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.
(King James Bible, 2 Peter)

So, please understand, this is what we go by, and nothing else, the Word of God, it is all we have and all we really need, the Holy Spirit and our mind and spirit, helping to guide us through it. And its not all that easy is it? Anyway, stay cool, and peace!
Mike
But that's just it. what is of God and what is not? Inspired does not mean written. Look at the arguements about the bible. Different interpretations, IMO because man wrote it with mistakes. I believe you can use it as a guideline, but use the logic and HEART that God gave us to become what God in reality wanted us to be.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
I see what you are saying, we just have to agree to disagree, since I believe the entire Bible is the inspired infallible word of God to us. I have studied the subject to see if I was mistaken, but through my studies I have come to believe it is God's revelation to man. I respect your opinion and understand where you are coming from, and I won't argue about it or anything, its cool.
Mike
 
Why did GOD say "REMEMBER" the Sabbath day.Do you think he knew a lot of people would forget to keep it holy??If your of the WORLD,you not of God.And most the world forgot about the Sabbath, Gods 4th commandment.The gait is narrow,and few will find it.
 
The Bible says, "All scripture is given by inspiration of God." 2 Timothy 3:16. "Prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost." 2 Peter 1:21. "The scripture cannot be broken." John 10:35.
 

Scuba Pete

Le plongeur avec attitude...
Scripture cannot be broken, but it CAN be fulfilled.

So, you contend that you are still under the law?
 
He fulfilled the law by giving us the chance to ask for forgivness. that's how he fulfilled the law. if you steal and you ask for forgivness and you mean it then your forgiven. it doesn't mean you can just go against the 10 commandments and its ok. keeping the sabbath is one of them along with all the others like thou shalt not murder, steal, have any other Gods before me ect.
so it's just as important.
if you beleive it is wrong to murder then you should believe to keep the sabbath because it is on the same level they are both part of the 10 commandments
 
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