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Original sin is anti-religion; a tool of the Antichrist

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member

>Original sin is anti-religion--a tool of the antichrist.

Quite false!

Christians CLAIM to accept the Jewish scriptures as part of their Bible; yet they keep coming up with nonsense like this.

The Jewish scriptures explicitly state in Ezekiel 18:14-20 that sin is NOT inherited!

So this whole claim falls flat on its face.

Just the facts.


Bruce
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

>Original sin is anti-religion--a tool of the antichrist.

Quite false!

Christians CLAIM to accept the Jewish scriptures as part of their Bible; yet they keep coming up with nonsense like this.

The Jewish scriptures explicitly state in Ezekiel 18:14-20 that sin is NOT inherited!

So this whole claim falls flat on its face.

Just the facts.


Bruce

Jeremiah 31
In those days they shall say no more: 'The fathers have eaten sour grapes, and the children's teeth are set on edge.' But every one shall die for his own iniquity; every man that eateth the sour grapes, his teeth shall be set on edge.

Genesis 6
And the LORD said: 'My spirit shall not abide in man for ever, for that he also is flesh.

Numbers 31
And Moses is wroth against the inspectors of the force, chiefs of the thousands, and chiefs of the hundreds, who are coming in from the host of the battle. And Moses saith unto them, `Have ye kept alive every female? Lo, they -- they have been to the sons of Israel, through the word of Balaam, to cause a trespass against God in the matter of Peor, and the plague is in the company of God. `And now, slay ye every male among the infants, yea, every woman known of man by the lying of a male ye have slain; and all the infants among the women, who have not known the lying of a male, ye have kept alive for yourselves.

Jeremiah 22
A grief -- a despised broken thing -- is this man Coniah? A vessel in which there is no pleasure? Wherefore have they been cast up and down, He and his seed, Yea, they were cast on to a land that they knew not? Earth, earth, earth, hear a word of God, Thus said God: Write ye this man childless, A man -- he doth not prosper in his days, For none of his seed doth prosper, Sitting on the throne of David, And ruling again in Judah!
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member

>Original sin is anti-religion--a tool of the antichrist.

Quite false!

Christians CLAIM to accept the Jewish scriptures as part of their Bible; yet they keep coming up with nonsense like this.

The Jewish scriptures explicitly state in Ezekiel 18:14-20 that sin is NOT inherited!

So this whole claim falls flat on its face.

Just the facts.


Bruce

Just to refresh Ezekiel 18:14-20:


14. And behold, if he beget a son, who sees all the sins of his father which he has done, and sees and does not do likewise
15. He did not eat on the mountains and did not lift up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, did not defile his fellow man's wife,
16. Wronged no man; did not retain any pledge, and committed no robbery; his bread he gave to the hungry and the naked he covered with clothes;
17. From the poor he kept his hand back, interest and increase he did not take; My ordinances he kept, in My laws did he walk-he shall not die for the sins of his father, he shall surely live.
18. [But] his father, because he illegally suppressed, committed robbery against his brother and did what is not good among his people, behold, he shall die for his iniquity.
19. Yet you say, "Why does the son not bear with the sin of the father?" But the son has practiced justice and righteousness, he has kept all My laws and he carries them out; he shall surely live.
20. The soul that sins, it shall die; a son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, and a father shall not bear the iniquity of the son; the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon himself.
Yechezkel - Chapter 18 - Tanakh Online - Torah - Bible

Thanks for your input.

Regards
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
Peace be on you.
Sin is a sin, it cannot be original or fake.

Laws are made at different institutions, companies, countries. If laws are violated, what happens?
Correction or penalty to the one who does so.

It is one angle about the point raised.

It is a Paul's creed that Adam sinned and that sin has been inherited by his subsequent off-spring. Adam's sin Paul termed as original sin.

Jesus never believed in it.

Regards
 

XIII-Legion

Member
Living forever is not just a dream....we potentially have the ability to live forever and even scientists who study the human aging process believe that we can. Why do you think they spend so much time and money on trying to reverse the ageing process. If they didnt think it was at all possible, they wouldnt bother.

It is possible and it will become a reality in the near future.

Scientists believe we can live forever...

But what is your source?

What you say is a FALLACY, which is not supported by evidence.
 

XIII-Legion

Member
not if we are truly made in Gods image. He doesnt die, nor should we.

But "should be" is not the same as what will or won't happen.

Doesn't matter if we're created in God's image; but you still have to survive the day of judgement to live forever in God's kingdom.

But what makes you think you will survive the last judgement?

Jesus will have the FINAL say as to who will go to heaven, and who will not. (Acts 10:42; John 5:22-23, 5:27, 14:6-7)

But it is not for you to say that you can just go to heaven without appraisal before the righteous seat of judgement. (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 9:15-16).
 
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Desert Snake

Veteran Member
'Original sin', is figured from Genesis. We inherited the overall sin of mankind. If not, why are we existing in the consequences of it.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member

>Original sin is anti-religion--a tool of the antichrist.

Quite false!

Christians CLAIM to accept the Jewish scriptures as part of their Bible; yet they keep coming up with nonsense like this.

The Jewish scriptures explicitly state in Ezekiel 18:14-20 that sin is NOT inherited!

So this whole claim falls flat on its face.

Just the facts.


Bruce

Great, so we're being 'punished' for sins we haven't committed/inherited. that sounds fair!
 

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
But "should be" is not the same as what will or won't happen.

Doesn't matter if we're created in God's image; but you still have to survive the day of judgement to live forever in God's kingdom.

But what makes you think you will survive the last judgement?

Jesus will have the FINAL say as to who will go to heaven, and who will not. (Acts 10:42; John 5:22-23, 5:27, 14:6-7)

But it is not for you to say that you can just go to heaven without appraisal before the righteous seat of judgement. (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 9:15-16).

This is another creed invented by the Anti-Christ that Jesus will have final say on the Judgment Day. He will have no say on that day.

The books from which your quotes belong were never authored by Jesus.
Did he? Please

Regards
 
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DawudTalut

Peace be upon you.
Your thoughts please.

Regards

Peace be on you.

1- " The concept of original sin was first alluded to in the 2nd century by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons in his controversy with certain dualist Gnostics. Other church fathers such as Augustine also developed the doctrine,[2] seeing it as based on the New Testament teaching of Paul the Apostle (Romans 5:12–21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22) and the Old Testament verse of Psalm 51:5.[4][5][6][7][8] Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose and Ambrosiaster considered that humanity shares in Adam's sin, transmitted by human generation. Augustine's formulation of original sin was popular among Protestant reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated original sin with concupiscence, affirming that it persisted even after baptism and completely destroyed freedom.[2] Within Roman Catholicism, the Jansenist movement, which the Church then declared heretical, also maintained that original sin destroyed freedom of will.[9] On the other hand, some modern liberal Protestants deny that the doctrine has a basis in Scripture.[10].."
Source:Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2- " In the fifth century, Augustine the Bishop of Hippo, was involved in a confrontation with the Pelagian movement, concerning the controversy of the nature of the fall of Adam and Eve. He proclaimed the Pelagian movement as being heretical because it taught that Adam’s sin affected only himself and not the human race as a whole; that every individual is born free of sin and is capable in his own power of living a sinless life and that there had even been persons who had succeeded in doing so."
Source: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_2.html


3-
a-Deuteronomy 24:16 New International Version (NIV)

16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.


b-Galatians 6:4 and 5 New International Version (NIV)


4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else,

5 for each one should carry their own load.


c- James 2:14New International Version (NIV)
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.



4-Anti Christ thing is related to latter days but mistake of invention of original sin theory had started much earlier!

5-Anti christ is using this theory for its agenda of Godlessness, moral-lessness and spirtuality-lessness.....Anti Christ will melt with the prayer and spiritual attention of Promised Messiah the Mahdi - the ardent devotee of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) [Ahmadiyya Muslims believe, he has come in 1889 now his fifth Khilafat is serving --- the peaceful service to restore faith alislam.org ]
 
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paarsurrey

Veteran Member
But "should be" is not the same as what will or won't happen.

Doesn't matter if we're created in God's image; but you still have to survive the day of judgement to live forever in God's kingdom.

But what makes you think you will survive the last judgement?

Jesus will have the FINAL say as to who will go to heaven, and who will not. (Acts 10:42; John 5:22-23, 5:27, 14:6-7)

But it is not for you to say that you can just go to heaven without appraisal before the righteous seat of judgement. (Titus 3:5; 2 Timothy 1:8-9; Ephesians 2:8-9; Romans 9:15-16).

The books from which your quotes belong were never authored by Jesus.

It is mostly a made up stuff in the name of Jesus for deception.

Regards
 

John Martin

Active Member
Your thoughts please.

Regards

Original sin can be seen from two levels:

1. Our birth is the original blessing from God. We are very pure and no sin is there. Original sin a state in which we are not conscious or aware of our original blessing, of universal presence of God and our unity with everyone and everything. When the children are born they are in this state of original blessing and also original sin. Original sin is not an act committed consciously or received from the past. It is our natural condition. We can say that every child is born with original blessing and also with original sin. It is a state of unconscious unity.
2. The second level of original sin is when consciousness emerges, when individuality emerges then one feels separation from others and everything. It is to be in a state of dualistic consciousness. It is a state where desire manifests and there is a process of becoming. These desires are to become conscious of our unconscious unity but projected in the wrong direction.
Adam and Eve wanted to become like God. They were already like God. It was their original blessing. But they were not conscious. This was their original sin. The desire arose in them 'to become like God'. This is the desire to become conscious of their original blessing. It was a good desire but they projected it outside rather than looking inside. This brought them outside the Garden of Eden. That was their second level of original sin. Again it was a natural process. Every human being has to grow this process. All our desires are ultimately desires to become conscious of our original blessing but projected in the wrong direction. All religions are related to this process of original sin because in our original blessing there is no place for religions. In our original blessing we experience consciously the indwelling presence of God. We walk with God consciously in the cool of the evening. The day will come when we discover that this external path does not bring us back to our original blessing, then we stop all external paths or means(hence all religions) and look into our heart where we find our original blessing, where we find the indwelling of God. Then we are free from original sin. Hence original sin belongs to the evolutionary process of our human spiritual growth. It is not limited only to Christians but to everyone. I do not think that it is anti-religion or a tool of antichrist. The way Christian tradition has presented it is very negative and damaging. It makes everyone feel that they are born with sin and will be condemned if they do not receive baptism and become Christians. Baptism is the process in which we stop the our external movement of becoming and discovering the indwelling presence of God. It is not just a ritual of pouring water on the head. It is dying to the ego and making our ego as the instrument or vehicle of God.
 
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Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Your thoughts please.

Regards

Well...that's what Pelagianism says. It is devilish to think that man is doomed to sin. Man is not retarded. Man has free will and can decide not to sin, and to turn this world into a heaven on earth through love and altruism
 

Estro Felino

Believer in free will
Premium Member
Peace be on you.

1- " The concept of original sin was first alluded to in the 2nd century by Irenaeus, Bishop of Lyons in his controversy with certain dualist Gnostics. Other church fathers such as Augustine also developed the doctrine,[2] seeing it as based on the New Testament teaching of Paul the Apostle (Romans 5:12–21 and 1 Corinthians 15:22) and the Old Testament verse of Psalm 51:5.[4][5][6][7][8] Tertullian, Cyprian, Ambrose and Ambrosiaster considered that humanity shares in Adam's sin, transmitted by human generation. Augustine's formulation of original sin was popular among Protestant reformers, such as Martin Luther and John Calvin, who equated original sin with concupiscence, affirming that it persisted even after baptism and completely destroyed freedom.[2] Within Roman Catholicism, the Jansenist movement, which the Church then declared heretical, also maintained that original sin destroyed freedom of will.[9] On the other hand, some modern liberal Protestants deny that the doctrine has a basis in Scripture.[10].."
Source:Original sin - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


2- " In the fifth century, Augustine the Bishop of Hippo, was involved in a confrontation with the Pelagian movement, concerning the controversy of the nature of the fall of Adam and Eve. He proclaimed the Pelagian movement as being heretical because it taught that Adam’s sin affected only himself and not the human race as a whole; that every individual is born free of sin and is capable in his own power of living a sinless life and that there had even been persons who had succeeded in doing so."
Source: https://www.alislam.org/library/books/christianity_facts_to_fiction/chapter_2.html


3-
a-Deuteronomy 24:16 New International Version (NIV)

16 Parents are not to be put to death for their children, nor children put to death for their parents; each will die for their own sin.


b-Galatians 6:4 and 5 New International Version (NIV)


4 Each one should test their own actions. Then they can take pride in themselves alone, without comparing themselves to someone else,

5 for each one should carry their own load.


c- James 2:14New International Version (NIV)
Faith and Deeds
14 What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if someone claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save them?

26 As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.



4-Anti Christ thing is related to latter days but mistake of invention of original sin theory had started much earlier!

5-Anti christ is using this theory for its agenda of Godlessness, moral-lessness and spirtuality-lessness.....Anti Christ will melt with the prayer and spiritual attention of Promised Messiah the Mahdi - the ardent devotee of Holy Prophet (s.a.w.) [Ahmadiyya Muslims believe, he has come in 1889 now his fifth Khilafat is serving --- the peaceful service to restore faith alislam.org ]

That's why I love Muslims so much. Because they are able to acknowledge all the contradictions and the anti-Christian thoughts of the Bible.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The reason is that the creed of "original sin" is disrespectful to humanity.

Regards

i can think of many things which are far more disrespectful to humanity then the idea that we are born with a defect.

Science has taught us a lot about genetics and hereditary conditions.

Its not far fetched to believe that we inherited something from Adam... its perfectly in harmony with science and nature. We inherit our parents traits, both mental and physical.... and not just their good traits, we get their bad traits as well.
 
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