Mans Law or GOD'S Law

True Sabbath keeping signifies that a person has surrendered his life to Jesus Christ and is willing to follow wherever Jesus leads.

Maybe we should change some verses in the scriptures to reflect this:

"You are saved by observing the Sabbath, and not by Grace!"

"You are under the law."

"The Son of Man was made for the Sabbath, not the Sabbath for the Son of man!"

Acts gives us a clue:

Acts 20:7 On the first day of the week we came together to break bread. Paul spoke to the people and, because he intended to leave the next day, kept on talking until midnight. NIV

Then there is First Corinthians...

I Corinthians 16:1 Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money in keeping with his income, saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. NIV

The first day of the week figured prominently in Christianity... it was the day Jesus was ressurected Matthew 28:1, Mark 16:2 & 9, Luke 24:1 and John 20:1 & 20.

TheTruthWillSetUFree said:

True Sabbath keeping signifies that a person has surrendered his life to Jesus Christ and is willing to follow wherever Jesus leads.

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Did not Christ's death and subsequent resurrection set us free from sin? Did not the Christ-event fulfill all the Law? That places the resurrection at the apex of spiritual achievement, signifiying as it does the fullness of God's creation. Therefore, in celebration of the resurrection, Christians have always met and broken bread on the first day of the week...the day when Christ rose from the dead.

Baptism signifies that a person has surrendered her/his life to Jesus and now follows him.

That is so ridiculous.Just do what ever you want,sin all you want,dont worry about nothing,Jesus took care of everything.Have a ball.Curse ,cheat,lie,steal,kill,whatever,Jesus took it all when he died for us.Ill pray for you too.Maybe you will get it some day.

TheTruthWillSetUFree said:

That is so ridiculous.Just do what ever you want,sin all you want,dont worry about nothing,Jesus took care of everything.Have a ball.Curse ,cheat,lie,steal,kill,whatever,Jesus took it all when he died for us.Ill pray for you too.Maybe you will get it some day.

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In what sense did I say any of those things? I never said that we have license to "go ahead and sin all we want." What I said was that our celebration of the resurrection has supplanted the Sabbath as an observance of what God has wrought for us. We always respond to God's grace in some way. The Jews respond to God's grace in creation. We respond to God's grace in fulfilling creation. It has nothing to do with our ignoring God's Law. It has everything to do with acknowledging that the Law has been fulfulled.

Rev. 22:14
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

just as i have said before. it is one of the ten commandments. people just choose to exclude it for some reason. it's like they think that jesus died and it erased the 4 commandment. even though it never said that. i see sin as equal and if your not keeping the sabbath day holy well then your not keeping one of the 10 commandments. it seems like it's the same as killing or stealing cause it's on the same level no matter how you look at it.

commandment4 said:

Rev. 22:14
14Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.

just as i have said before. it is one of the ten commandments. people just choose to exclude it for some reason. it's like they think that jesus died and it erased the 4 commandment. even though it never said that. i see sin as equal and if your not keeping the sabbath day holy well then your not keeping one of the 10 commandments. it seems like it's the same as killing or stealing cause it's on the same level no matter how you look at it.

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And Jesus said in response to the question about which was the most important commandment, "You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your mind; and you shall love your neighbor as yourself. On these two commandments hang all the Law and the prophets." That is all that is required of Christians.

Do you follow all of the dietary and atonement laws of Leviticus? Do you wear cotton-poly shirts? These are all part of the Law...

By celebrating the resurrection, we are paying homage to the work of God in creation, just as the Jews do on the Sabbath. In other words, we are loving God. Part of being a Christian is the realization that salvation and relationship with God do not depend upon legalism.

so the 10 commandments were hung on the cross?

it's like this
if you murder someone and you are truly sorry and you ask for forgiveness then ok you have been forgiven
if you steal something and you are truly sorry for it and ask for forgiveness then ok your forgiven
things like that is what jesus died for. he died for our sins but it's not like you pray every week for not keeping the sabbath holy
that means that you should still keep the sabbath holy
oh and i do keep the dietary laws but that's another subject.

No, Jesus was hung on the cross, fulfilling creation.

Jesus did ask that we love God and love each other, but we do those things in response to grace, not because doing them ensures salvation.

The very first commandment is to love God. The subsequent commandments all have to do with loving God and loving others. We follow them because we love God and love others. The purpose of keeping the Sabbath is to love God. By celebrating the resurrection on the first day, we love God. It shows that we acknowledge God's grace in the context of having brought us life eternal, having fulfilled creation.

yes i keep the sabbath holy cause i love God. I obey him cause i love him.
therefor keeping all his commandments

commandment4 said:

yes i keep the sabbath holy cause i love God. I obey him cause i love him.
therefor keeping all his commandments

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If that's your expression, then that's great. I don't have aproblem with you doing that. I do have a problem with an inference that, because most Christians don't "keep the Sabbath," they 1) love God less, 2) aren't loving God in the "correct" way, 3) are engaging in sin by worshiping on the 1st day of the week.

The majority of the Christian community find great symbolic and theological merit in celebrating the grace of God as found in eternal life, by worshiping on the day of the week that Christ rose from the dead. If that doesn't work for you, then you clearly have to go with what does.

i have a different oppinion on most things.....like the day that Jesus rose.....i'm not quit convinced that it was on sunday but i'm not sure.....so i see your understanding on that it's just that it never changed in the Bible so why should we change it. it's not like he rose every sunday. I celebrate the passover (not easter) and the fact that Jesus died for me every year.

TheTruthWillSetUFree said:

That is so ridiculous.Just do what ever you want,sin all you want,dont worry about nothing,Jesus took care of everything.Have a ball.Curse ,cheat,lie,steal,kill,whatever,Jesus took it all when he died for us.Ill pray for you too.Maybe you will get it some day.

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I am sure the Judaizers said pretty much the same thing about circumcision. Go figure!

Here's another modified verse for you...

"They will know you are my disciples by the way you keep the Sabbath"

Those who love are the ones who actually "get it". Thought you should know.

Hi, If you look threw church history you will see that most things are anti Jewish. Atleast Jews try and keep the truth to the best of knowledge I am not stating that one is right or wrong truth speaks for it's self.

alexander garcia said:

Hi, If you look threw church history you will see that most things are anti Jewish. Atleast Jews try and keep the truth to the best of knowledge I am not stating that one is right or wrong truth speaks for it's self.

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The Jews threw the Christians out of the Temple and shunned them from synagogue, which went directly against the grain of their laws concerning hospitality...

Sunday or Sabbath? Let me first say I love adventists and respect them, but let me answer why I believe in Sunday worship, first, let us go to the Bible which is our top authority:

2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(King James Bible, Colossians)

20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
(King James Bible, Acts)

16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
(King James Bible, 1 Corinthians)

3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
(King James Bible, Galatians)

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(King James Bible, Ephesians)

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(King James Bible, Romans)
4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(King James Bible, Romans)

First verse says not to judge a man for not keeping or keeping certain holy days including the sabath. Next two verses show that the early Christians met on Sunday, the first day of the week to break bread and be preached to, and to give offerings for the needs of the church and furtherance of the gospel. Next verses show, the problem of Galatianism where they tried to add the works of the law to grace. The Ephesians verses show we are saved by grace (undeserved merit) through faith in Jesus UNTO good works. We do good works because we are freely saved, not to get or keep saved, good works being an evidence of the salvation we already have. Romans shows us salvation is obtained not by works, but by faith that works actually cancel out faith, for it is Christ who saves us not the works of the Law.

I would point out, too, we are no longer under the dispensation of Law, to the Jews, but we are in the Age of Grace or the Church Age. We worship on Sunday because Christ rose from the dead and that is what the New Testament says to do. The epistles teach the other commandments, not to lie, steal, commit adultery, etc., but they do not say to keep the Sabbath, they say don't judge someone over it either way. May I say, respectfully, that this teaching was from one of Ellen G. White's visions who's writings many adventists hold right up to or even above the Bible. They also believe in the future, "Sunday keeping" will be the mark of the beast, and that if one does not keep the sabbath they are not deserving of eternal life, thus believing all other Christians are going to Hell. But we are saved by grace, not by the works of the Law. That's all I have to say for now, although I disagree with some of the other adventist doctines, but later! Peace, and hope this did not offend, but enlighten, and i believe I used scripture to back up my beliefs.
Thanks,
Mike

alexander garcia said:

Hi, If you look threw church history you will see that most things are anti Jewish. Atleast Jews try and keep the truth to the best of knowledge I am not stating that one is right or wrong truth speaks for it's self.

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So, are you saying that Christians don't try to keep the truth? If so, I would suggest that you are guilty of the bias you so blithely lavish on Christians.

Since we are speaking of church history, I would like you to show me one instance where Jews were attacked in the book of Acts? You can find where Christians were attacked. Does this indicated that Jews are bigots? NO! It proves that bigotry occurs in every religion and in every race of humans. Bigotry is an individual decision.

joeboonda said:

Sunday or Sabbath? Let me first say I love adventists and respect them, but let me answer why I believe in Sunday worship, first, let us go to the Bible which is our top authority:

2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
(King James Bible, Colossians)

20:7 And upon the first day of the week, when the disciples came together to break bread, Paul preached unto them, ready to depart on the morrow; and continued his speech until midnight.
(King James Bible, Acts)
16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
(King James Bible, 1 Corinthians)

3:1 O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? 3:2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? 3:4 Have ye suffered so many things in vain? if it be yet in vain.
3:5 He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? 3:6 Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.
3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.
3:8 And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.
3:9 So then they which be of faith are blessed with faithful Abraham.
3:10 For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continueth not in all things which are written in the book of the law to do them.
3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.
3:12 And the law is not of faith: but, The man that doeth them shall live in them.
3:13 Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree: 3:14 That the blessing of Abraham might come on the Gentiles through Jesus Christ; that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith.
3:15 Brethren, I speak after the manner of men; Though it be but a man's covenant, yet if it be confirmed, no man disannulleth, or addeth thereto.
3:16 Now to Abraham and his seed were the promises made. He saith not, And to seeds, as of many; but as of one, And to thy seed, which is Christ.
3:17 And this I say, that the covenant, that was confirmed before of God in Christ, the law, which was four hundred and thirty years after, cannot disannul, that it should make the promise of none effect.
3:18 For if the inheritance be of the law, it is no more of promise: but God gave it to Abraham by promise.
3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions, till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.
3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.
3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
(King James Bible, Galatians)

2:8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: 2:9 Not of works, lest any man should boast.
2:10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.
(King James Bible, Ephesians)

11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
(King James Bible, Romans)
4:3 For what saith the scripture? Abraham believed God, and it was counted unto him for righteousness.
4:4 Now to him that worketh is the reward not reckoned of grace, but of debt.
4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
(King James Bible, Romans)

First verse says not to judge a man for not keeping or keeping certain holy days including the sabath. Next two verses show that the early Christians met on Sunday, the first day of the week to break bread and be preached to, and to give offerings for the needs of the church and furtherance of the gospel. Next verses show, the problem of Galatianism where they tried to add the works of the law to grace. The Ephesians verses show we are saved by grace (undeserved merit) through faith in Jesus UNTO good works. We do good works because we are freely saved, not to get or keep saved, good works being an evidence of the salvation we already have. Romans shows us salvation is obtained not by works, but by faith that works actually cancel out faith, for it is Christ who saves us not the works of the Law.

I would point out, too, we are no longer under the dispensation of Law, to the Jews, but we are in the Age of Grace or the Church Age. We worship on Sunday because Christ rose from the dead and that is what the New Testament says to do. The epistles teach the other commandments, not to lie, steal, commit adultery, etc., but they do not say to keep the Sabbath, they say don't judge someone over it either way. May I say, respectfully, that this teaching was from one of Ellen G. White's visions who's writings many adventists hold right up to or even above the Bible. They also believe in the future, "Sunday keeping" will be the mark of the beast, and that if one does not keep the sabbath they are not deserving of eternal life, thus believing all other Christians are going to Hell. But we are saved by grace, not by the works of the Law. That's all I have to say for now, although I disagree with some of the other adventist doctines, but later! Peace, and hope this did not offend, but enlighten, and i believe I used scripture to back up my beliefs.
Thanks,
Mike

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"Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish aught from it, that ye may keep the commandments of the Lord your God." Deuteronomy 4:2. "Every word of God is pure. ... Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar." Proverbs 30:5, 6.

Jesus said "Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven." Matthew 5:18-19