Should we execute child molesters (revisited)?

Victor said:

Effective? How so?
By perfection you mean what?

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Effective? They're gone and gone for good.

Perfection? We seem to all agree that the system can be improved. I guess I will have to digress and say that this is clearly subjective. However, there is still room to argue that execution may be less costly, a deterant, etc.

nutshell said:

If the system is perfect, it won't be needed...until then...KILL THEM.

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The system won't be perfect until we stop killing them, the system won't become perfect by it'self we have to change the way we do things too.

Are you joking? As a child of 13 myself, I am appauled by the idea. I cannot, however, support execution. I personally would throw thenm in prison for life with a cell mate named Bubba ---or somthing along those lines--- we cann all see how they deal with being molested themselves. I will never support execution; however this deserves the most brutal alternative. How 27 people from around the globe could possibly partake in anything of the sort completely baffles me.

Hello,

Are we living in the old west here? Get the rope! Hang them all! They're all horse thieves! It seems that by and large, that is the mentality expressed in this thread and I for one find it appalling. It totally floors me that people who are sane and compassionate would, at the same time, be so totally swept up in this 'kill the pedophile' mania.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, (no pun intended ) I myself was sexually abused as a kid so I speak as one who has been there and done that.
Listen, folks, I have a nine year old granddaughter. And I know that if anyone sexually abused her I'd want to wipe them off the face of the earth. However, I also know that realistically, that would be totally inappropriate.

It breaks my heart to see such raw hatred expressed here. I thought we were supposed to be caring and compassionate human beings. I thought we were better than being haters. I hope and pray that we ARE better than that. God help us all if we're not!

maggie2 said:

Hello,

Are we living in the old west here? Get the rope! Hang them all! They're all horse thieves! It seems that by and large, that is the mentality expressed in this thread and I for one find it appalling. It totally floors me that people who are sane and compassionate would, at the same time, be so totally swept up in this 'kill the pedophile' mania.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, (no pun intended ) I myself was sexually abused as a kid so I speak as one who has been there and done that.
Listen, folks, I have a nine year old granddaughter. And I know that if anyone sexually abused her I'd want to wipe them off the face of the earth. However, I also know that realistically, that would be totally inappropriate.

It breaks my heart to see such raw hatred expressed here. I thought we were supposed to be caring and compassionate human beings. I thought we were better than being haters. I hope and pray that we ARE better than that. God help us all if we're not!

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There is not requirement to be caring and compassionate to evil. It should be cut off, never to hurt again.

it's a horrid crime, but i just can't condone the killing of another life

in theory, the only way we can say "you are moraly wrong" is if we are "morally right", and i don't think killing people really gives us that moral high ground.

nutshell said:

There is not requirement to be caring and compassionate to evil. It should be cut off, never to hurt again.

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And who decides what is evil? The crazed mob yelling, "Kill, kill, kill"? And many of those who advocate killing pedophiles are the same ones who scream insults at what they call the 'crazy Muslims'. What a double standard! It's okay for you to talk of killing another human being but it's not okay for anyone else to do it!

And I disagree that there is no requirement for compassion. Quoting from your holy book, Jesus didn't say love those who are good and not evil. Jesus said 'Love your neighbor as yourself". He also said, "He who is without sin among you, cast the first stone,". I could quote other sayings but those two are sufficient for me.

Remember the crowd that shouted and chanted 'Kill him" as Jesus was being led away to be crucified? That's the kind of mentality I see here on this thread. I'm sure Jesus would weep at the hatred expressed here just as he did when this same thing happened to him.

It is truly fortunate that innocent people are never convicted and sentenced to death in our most perfect of all judicial systems.

The problem with the death penality is that mistakes cannot be reversed.

maggie2 said:

And who decides what is evil? The crazed mob yelling, "Kill, kill, kill"?

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I don't consider myself part of a crazed mob, however I do believe killing is appropriate at times.

Sunstone said:

The problem with the death penality is that mistakes cannot be reversed.

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This is also my biggest fear with the death penalty and the most important reason I would accept alternative solutions. I just don't trust rehabilitating completely and can't see the value of life-imprisonment. If it were possible to prove (such as obvious video evidence) then I don't feel any moral obligation to let them live.

I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but.............ugh. These crimes just make me weep.




I am also one of "those" who simply cannot support the death penalty. It is a form of punishment that I believe is not only cruel and unusual, but it is also pre-meditated. The taking of a human life accumulates an enormous amount of bad karma, since this realm is the ONE realm where beings can realize liberation and buddhahood.





I do not have any answers for fodder in this debate (sorry!). There are plenty of monks and nuns in the Tibetan Buddhist community that do volunteer work in many different prisons varying in degrees of security (whether it's light security or on death row). I am not one of them in this lifetime, but I am sure there are many who have opinions on alternatives for a) rehabilitating the criminal and b) protecting the victim and the rest of us from these crimes.




It's all together too easy a perception that a criminal can just be "put away and out of sight." Taxpayers still need to support the prisoners with food, shelter, basic medical service, and protection from each other. Most of us do this without a second glance. I do wish that more attention is given to the matters of finding solutions toward our current prison politics than merely throwing money at them for the sake of keeping them away from us.





Peace,
Mystic

nutshell said:

There is not requirement to be caring and compassionate to evil.

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:clap

maggie2 said:

And who decides what is evil?

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I think we can all agree that a man who rapes and murders a little girl, or one who sexually abuses an infant is pretty damn evil. If we can't agree, then someone here needs to retake Morals 101. We're human. We can (and do) make laws based on what WE think is right and wrong. We don't need some higher power to tell us what right and wrong, and it would be very difficult to have a functioning society otherwise.

maggie2 said:

The crazed mob yelling, "Kill, kill, kill"? And many of those who advocate killing pedophiles are the same ones who scream insults at what they call the 'crazy Muslims'.

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Maybe. Some Muslims I would definitely call "crazy". It's safe to say that someone who walks into a dance club and blows himself up (along with others), or someone who issues death threats and starts rioting because they don't like a certain comic probably has a residence in Insanityville.

maggie2 said:

What a double standard! It's okay for you to talk of killing another human being but it's not okay for anyone else to do it!

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maggie2 said:

And I disagree that there is no requirement for compassion. Quoting from your holy book, Jesus didn't say...

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Jesus this Jesus that. I think Jesus would want us to kill the molesters.

Sunstone said:

The problem with the death penality is that mistakes cannot be reversed.

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True, but it's hard to make a mistake when the molester is caught on film doing the act, and has bragged about it in documented text from a pedophile chatroom, and/or there is DNA evidence to back all this up. I wouldn't advocate it in a case where there could be reasonable doubt.

Mike182 said:

in theory, the only way we can say "you are moraly wrong" is if we are "morally right", and i don't think killing people really gives us that moral high ground.

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I still don't understand why taking a life (that harms humankind) is morally wrong. Maybe someone could explain it to me.

maggie2 said:

And who decides what is evil? The crazed mob yelling, "Kill, kill, kill"? And many of those who advocate killing pedophiles are the same ones who scream insults at what they call the 'crazy Muslims'. What a double standard! It's okay for you to talk of killing another human being but it's not okay for anyone else to do it!

And I disagree that there is no requirement for compassion. Quoting from your holy book, Jesus didn't say love those who are good and not evil. Jesus said 'Love your neighbor as yourself". He also said, "He who is without sin among you, cast the first stone,". I could quote other sayings but those two are sufficient for me.

Remember the crowd that shouted and chanted 'Kill him" as Jesus was being led away to be crucified? That's the kind of mentality I see here on this thread. I'm sure Jesus would weep at the hatred expressed here just as he did when this same thing happened to him.

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I'm not a mob, nor do I have mob mentality.

Since you seem to think you know so much about my holy book, let me share another verse for you.

Matthew 18:6 "But whoso shall offend one of these little ones which believe in me, it were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and that he were drowned in the dept of the sea."

Seems to me Jesus is on my side. Loving your neighbor and casting the first stone don't apply to evil. There are numerous verses that speak of righteous judgement. And the verse I just quoted seems pretty clear to the exact situation we're talking about.

What I don't understand is this: many people would agree that it is not morally wrong to kill in certain circumstances, eg. self-defense, war, hunting, etc. Why then is it wrong to execute dangerous maniacs? Is all killing wrong or are there exceptions?

Ormiston said:

What I don't understand is this: many people would agree that it is not morally wrong to kill in certain circumstances, eg. self-defense, war, hunting, etc. Why then is it wrong to execute dangerous maniacs? Is all killing wrong or are there exceptions?

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There are exceptions. You noted some of them (although I'm not sure about the hunting without context). In short, I usually only support those that causes death to a person/s. Like a serial killer that cannot be contained. That poses an immediate threat to the life of others. In this case, the death penalty is the only choice left.

maggie2 said:

Hello,

Are we living in the old west here? Get the rope! Hang them all! They're all horse thieves! It seems that by and large, that is the mentality expressed in this thread and I for one find it appalling. It totally floors me that people who are sane and compassionate would, at the same time, be so totally swept up in this 'kill the pedophile' mania.

And before anyone gets on their high horse, (no pun intended ) I myself was sexually abused as a kid so I speak as one who has been there and done that.
Listen, folks, I have a nine year old granddaughter. And I know that if anyone sexually abused her I'd want to wipe them off the face of the earth. However, I also know that realistically, that would be totally inappropriate.

It breaks my heart to see such raw hatred expressed here. I thought we were supposed to be caring and compassionate human beings. I thought we were better than being haters. I hope and pray that we ARE better than that. God help us all if we're not!

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Well, I respect your position and your compassion, but I believe that it is misplaced. I truly believe that the most compassionate thing that society can do, is mead out justice to those who have committed these horrible acts of barbarity. If someone has been convicted through overwhelming evidence, that they sexually abused a child, I hope that the justice system carries out the proper punishment, and takes there life. If not that, then at the very least a sentence of life in prison without perole.

Justice is blind, but compassion for child molesters is ignorant.

I generally stay out of these threads because to be honest, I am woefully ignorant of the sex offender social work industry, other than I realize it is a complexed machine. I wanted to ask if any of you know some of the stats on sex offenders, have links or have social work experience or long conversations (i know not likely) with social workers who worked in the sex offender field?

Here are some interesting statistic fromt he Department of Justice of Sex Offenders:

Sex offenders

• On a given day in 1994 there were approximately 234,000 offenders convicted of rape or sexual assault under the care, custody, or control of corrections agencies; nearly 60% of these sex offenders are under conditional supervision in the community.
• The median age of the victims of imprisoned sexual assaulters was less than 13 years old; the median age of rape victims was about 22 years.
• An estimated 24% of those serving time for rape and 19% of those serving time for sexual assault had been on probation or parole at the time of the offense for which they were in State prison in 1991.
• Of the 9,691 male sex offenders released from prisons in 15 States in 1994, 5.3% were rearrested for a new sex crime within 3 years of release.
• Of released sex offenders who allegedly committed another sex crime, 40% perpetrated the new offense within a year or less from their prison discharge.

Child victimizers

• Approximately 4,300 child molesters were released from prisons in 15 States in 1994. An estimated 3.3% of these 4,300 were rearrested for another sex crime against a child within 3 years of release from prison.
• Among child molesters released from prison in 1994, 60% had been in prison for molesting a child 13 years old or younger.
• Offenders who had victimized a child were on average 5 years older than the violent offenders who had committed their crimes against adults. Nearly 25% of child victimizers were age 40 or older, but about 10% of the inmates with adult victims fell in that age range.

From: JusticeDept.

I haven't read most of this thread, this is just a "my two cents" kinda post.

If you advocate killing anyone, no matter what they have done, and consider yourself Christian, Muslim, Jewish - well then you're not any of those. Why?

"Thou shalt not kill" No ifs, not buts.

If you're Christian, then you have a second commandment which you should accept as the ultimate commandment - "Love thy neighbour". It's not "love thy neighbour, unless..." I've noticed a couple of Christians advocating murder on this thread, they need to re-evaluate their moral beliefs.

As for the paedophiles, they are sick. They need to be removed from society and helped, revenge killing (which is all capital punishment actually is) does not help anyone. Not the criminal, not the victims and not society as a whole.

Did you learn this technique from Fluffy?

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lok okay that one confused me.

I do not believe that we should execute child molesters. I don't believe that the justice system should contain any aspect of punishment but should be totally about prevention and rehabilitation. Of course I would love to get my hands on a child molester and make them suffer. However, I know that this would be morally wrong and I don't think that laws should be passed based on anybody's emotional response.

Halcyon said:

I haven't read most of this thread, this is just a "my two cents" kinda post.

If you advocate killing anyone, no matter what they have done, and consider yourself Christian, Muslim, Jewish - well then you're not any of those. Why?

"Thou shalt not kill" No ifs, not buts.

If you're Christian, then you have a second commandment which you should accept as the ultimate commandment - "Love thy neighbour". It's not "love thy neighbour, unless..." I've noticed a couple of Christians advocating murder on this thread, they need to re-evaluate their moral beliefs.

As for the paedophiles, they are sick. They need to be removed from society and helped, revenge killing (which is all capital punishment actually is) does not help anyone. Not the criminal, not the victims and not society as a whole.

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So you judge me according to a book that you don't even believe in? How odd.