Pets are a Waste of Money

Runewolf1973 said:

Animals in the wild aren't someone's pet.

Click to expand...

I'd say the same standard of respectfulness applies to them, though.

Wirey said:

We are self-aware, and capable of empathy, and capable of rational thought..

Click to expand...

And so are non-human animals, and also non-animal life forms in some cases. Just in case you didn't know. Unfortunately, they don't really teach this stuff in K-12 biology classes and so people's understanding of other life forms is based on some rather outdated ideas. I don't particularly blame people for being speciesist out of ignorance.

Wirey said:

... and that makes us better than the rest of the animals on earth.

Click to expand...

Nope, all this tells me is that your personal and highly anthropocentric valuation system has decided to place your own species on a pedestal. Congrats? But hey, if you're going to do that, I prefer people base it on things that are objectively true. In other words, not that stuff you mentioned above. Perhaps paradoxically, I have more respect for the people who say "I like humans better just because" rather than justify it with scientifically indefensible statements.

Quintessence said:

I don't understand how non-human animals are somehow disposable but humans aren't. It doesn't make sense, and it's not "just how things are;" in a value-neutral scheme, everything is "disposable" in the sense that all things will pass out of being in the great cycles that govern our realm. Humans are governed by this as much as any other animal. The only reason I can think of to have a view some beings as disposable yet not others is to rationalize deplorable ethical treatment of that particular being. That's a frightening mindset given what it can lead to.

Click to expand...

We humans are diverse. I simply identify far more with other humans than with animals. But I do rank some critters higher than others. Tops in priority are: great apes, not-so-great apes, dolphins, whales. I don't mean to frighten anyone with my perspective.....don't worry, I'm quite humane towards them.

Quintessence said:

But what do you guys think?

Click to expand...

I like animals more than I like a lot of people, so that answer should suffice. I have pretty much always had a pet of some kind. Right now it's 2 dogs (Shih tzu brother and sister) and a cat who are completely bonded to each other, having been raised together. They are my children, and I treat them as such. Some people don't understand that, and that's OK, but human and non-human children do something to and for your soul.

BSM1 said:

My grandmother always named the animals she raised on the farm. They were called Breakfast, Lunch, or Dinner.

Click to expand...

My family raised farm animals as well. They were for food, not to keep as pets. Nevertheless, we treated those farm animals with repect. We kept them healthy and well fed and when the time came that we needed them for food, we killed them humanely. Pets are a little different since there is more of an emotional bond that is made in that respect. The farm animals gave us food and our pets gave us friendship. All animals have something special to offer and should likewise be treated with respect.

Quintessence said:

I'd say the same standard of respectfulness applies to them, though.

Click to expand...

Absolutely.

I own what may be the laziest, most cowardly cat on earth. I once watched a fly chase her off. I'd never, ever be mean to her. However, if she dies I'll get over it. If one of my children died, however, it would devestate me and my community. There's a damn good reason we place more value on people than animals. Additionally, my children will one day provide for the society they live in, through work, creation, ideas, and a host of other ways. Cats are mousetraps that can poop.

Revoltingest said:

We humans are diverse. I simply identify far more with other humans than with animals. But I do rank some critters higher than others. Tops in priority are: great apes, not-so-great apes, dolphins, whales. I don't mean to frighten anyone with my perspective.....don't worry, I'm quite humane towards them.

Click to expand...

Oh, no worries. Others have a right to their idiosyncrasies regardless of what I think of it. In general, biological life forms tend to put their own members on a pedestal of valuation and concern over others. Evolutionarily speaking, that makes sense considering it helps perpetuate the species. It's entirely normal.

Humans in particular, however, can be "better" than that, and in many respects need to be better than that. We're an overpopulated ecosystem engineer that will compromise its own survival if it fails to regard the rest of the world with concern. One of the few things I do regard as more remarkable about our species is that we are in a position to be extending our network of concern so much broader than any other species. Why not do so? It's a smart move for us in terms of sustainability, and it's respectful of the web of life we're part of. Lovingkindness for everything, yo! :rainbow1:

I think it is only natural for humans to place more value on human life than on other animal life. I think creatures evolved that way as a survival mechanism...survival of the species. Do you think a mother Grizzly bear places the same value on human life as she does on her own cubs? No. The way I see it, it is only natural for animals in general to want to protect their own species above all others.

Wirey said:

I own what may be the laziest, most cowardly cat on earth. I once watched a fly chase her off. I'd never, ever be mean to her. However, if she dies I'll get over it. If one of my children died, however, it would devestate me and my community. There's a damn good reason we place more value on people than animals. Additionally, my children will one day provide for the society they live in, through work, creation, ideas, and a host of other ways. Cats are mousetraps that can poop.

Click to expand...

I suppose there are a couple of problems I have with this kind of mentality, but of course, by all means you're entitled to it.

On one level, it sounds like you are valuing human creatures based upon the services or usefulness they provide to you or other humans. A valuation system that focuses so much on utility is somewhat at odds with how I tend to view things, because to me, everything has intrinsic value regardless of its use to something or someone. If the sole reason why I value people is because they're useful to me (and usefulness could be physical, mental, or emotional satisfactions), that... I don't know. It seems kind of selfish? I don't mind being selfish at all when it comes to certain things, but in terms of a valuing system, I can't seem to manage to do that.

On another level, even if we're comfortable with valuing things just because they're useful to us, failing to see the usefulness of the non-human world is short-sighted or narrowly-sighted to me. Human life is 100% dependent on other life forms for its existence. Our children don't exist without other animals, plants, bacteria, and microorganisms. Personally, I find that deserving of more than a little respectfulness, and at least some very careful attention. For the humans that put themselves on a pedestal, I strongly recommend they take a look at that pedestal they're standing on and not take it for granted.

There are some canibalistic creatures that value their own life over that of their own species. However, at the same time they are in a way indirectly protecting their own species...this ensures only the strongest of their species will survive.

I grew up with a dog. I was 1 y/o, he was 1 too. We got him from the rescue shelter. It was an interesting experience to grow up alongside him. My parents always refered to him as my brother, and for me he was. The same as if he was human. He died at 16, I was 16 too. It was like loosing a family member, for everyone. We all cried and we all decided to give hommage to him like a true family member deserves. So we incinerated him, and took back his ashes home to put them in the garden he loved.

It was not a waste of money. It was normal for us. When you grow up so close to an animal, when you call him your brother, then the fact that he is different than you doesn't change anything.

We have a new dog now. He is my brother also. And he is fully conscious and happy to be a part of the family. I have put my life in danger once to save him from an agression, and honestly the fact that he was or not human didn't even crossed my mind. He was my brother, I had to save him, period. And it is a waste of nothing. Every wound was totally worth it when he came to thank we, when I saw the fear in his eyes.

I am no owner of an animal. I am his sister, his mother, his bro, but I certainly don't "own" any pet. They are all family, and there is nothing to explain or to justify. I see no difference in my bond between my human brother and my dog brother.

Every friendly animal I cross path with, I greet him/her as I would do with a human. It happened more than once that I even drop everything I was doing and just stand there in the street because a cat approached to me in a friendly manner and wanted some love. So I just take a break on the human busy life, just sit on the sidewalk, and have some refreshing conversation with a random friendly cat as if it was a human. I don't see what's the difference. They are not useless. If any being here on earth exists, then it's because it have a mean to be. They are not a waste or useless. Maybe by our own humancentric egotistic ideas they are, but thank God it's not our opinion that rules the world.

When you raise an animal like you would raise a children, when you consider them like the clever creatures they are, then you realize they are way more "human" than you can imagine.

Wirey said:

I own what may be the laziest, most cowardly cat on earth. I once watched a fly chase her off. I'd never, ever be mean to her. However, if she dies I'll get over it. If one of my children died, however, it would devestate me and my community. There's a damn good reason we place more value on people than animals. Additionally, my children will one day provide for the society they live in, through work, creation, ideas, and a host of other ways. Cats are mousetraps that can poop.

Click to expand...

I take it you've never heard of therapy dogs, or police dogs, or the different kinds of pets trained to bring comfort to those in hospitals and nursing homes. Nor do you seem aware of the emotional support a pet can provide for those who "provide for the society they live in", which makes them providers by proxy. I myself provide for society as a writer and teacher and my dog in turn provides for society by providing me with all the emotional support and comfort I need to help keep me working at top capacity. Could a human provide the same thing? Perhaps, but not quite. Sure I have riverwolf but he can't always be home with me, even when we're living together. There's my parents but I don't have the same connection to them as I do my dog. Besides you can always count on a pet to never judge you or look down on you or hate you for anything you may be thinking or feeling at the time. Their love is constant and unconditional. I can safely say that without my dog, or some other pet, I would not be able to function to the best of my ability.

Quintessence said:

I suppose there are a couple of problems I have with this kind of mentality, but of course, by all means you're entitled to it.

On one level, it sounds like you are valuing human creatures based upon the services or usefulness they provide to you or other humans. A valuation system that focuses so much on utility is somewhat at odds with how I tend to view things, because to me, everything has intrinsic value regardless of its use to something or someone. If the sole reason why I value people is because they're useful to me (and usefulness could be physical, mental, or emotional satisfactions), that... I don't know. It seems kind of selfish? I don't mind being selfish at all when it comes to certain things, but in terms of a valuing system, I can't seem to manage to do that.

On another level, even if we're comfortable with valuing things just because they're useful to us, failing to see the usefulness of the non-human world is short-sighted or narrowly-sighted to me. Human life is 100% dependent on other life forms for its existence. Our children don't exist without other animals, plants, bacteria, and microorganisms. Personally, I find that deserving of more than a little respectfulness, and at least some very careful attention. For the humans that put themselves on a pedestal, I strongly recommend they take a look at that pedestal they're standing on and not take it for granted.

Click to expand...

I didn't say they deserved disrespect, I said they weren't as valuable as us. I'm sure yor Kia is wonderful, but my Beemer is better, so to speak.

To expand further on what I said above with an example. For the past couple of years I was on anti-depressants for anxiety attacks. I have recently gotten off of them and I know I would not have been able to if it weren't for my dog, Calli. I've been going through withdrawal symptoms these past couple weeks and had a really rough time of it the first couple of days. I had to call in sick to work and found myself feeling so dizzy that I had to stay in bed and couldn't even move my eyes. I felt pralyzed, which terrifies me. Calli was over by my bedroom door, wanting to be let out at this particular moment when this feeling or paralysis induced in me a fear so strong that I actually started to have another panic attack. As soon as I started panting from it Calli got up from her spot by the door, jumped up on the bed and crawled up to start licking my face. This got me laughing as I put my arms around her and the fear faded away. As I calmed down she rested her head on my chest and continued to stay by my side despite her earlier desire to go outside. She completely stopped me from having a full on panic attack and kept me calm until Riverwolf was able to come over.

Now, could I simply stay on my medication and not have to worry about all the expenses a dog can bring. Technically yes but I would not be the same. As Riverwolf will attest the entire time I've been on that medication I have had far less fire and passion. I stopped being anxious yes but I also didn't feel as great joy and lost a lot of enthusiasm for the things I love. Calli's presence has allowed me to get off the medication much sooner than I otherwise would have been able to and as such allow me to reclaim all that joy and passion I had been missing earlier. Could I have gotten through it without her, yeah probably but certainly not as easily.


Now putting all this aside, I consider pets worth the money because of the joy they bring. They are part of the family in my mind and will always be worth the investment to me. Even without the whole anxiety thing, Calli would be worth it to me, as would any pet and my life would never be complete without a pet in the house just like my life will never be complete if I don't have children.

Both will always be worth it.

I really recommand to look up the story of James and Bob the cat. It really sums up all the goodness animals can bring to us, and how human they are inside.
When a complete random stray cat change the life of a ex drug addict that don't hesitate to spend the few money he gain with begging to get all medical assistance he can for the stray cat, when the cat gives him absolute confidence and incredible love to help him get off addiction and find a job... Then after reading his story it is impossible to say animals are inferiors or useless. It's a very famous story, just look it up on google, it's worth your time. There is real friendship behind these two.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/briti...workers-caught-on-tape-abusing-cows-1.2670098

The other side. Crap like this is inexcusable.

Runewolf1973 said:

My family raised farm animals as well. They were for food, not to keep as pets. Nevertheless, we treated those farm animals with repect. We kept them healthy and well fed and when the time came that we needed them for food, we killed them humanely. Pets are a little different since there is more of an emotional bond that is made in that respect. The farm animals gave us food and our pets gave us friendship. All animals have something special to offer and should likewise be treated with respect.

Click to expand...

Click to expand...

Are you kidding me? The pig was treated better and ate better than I. Granny didn't love the pig more than me, she just knew that come winter I would not be the sausage on the biscuit.

BSM1 said:

Are you kidding me? The pig was treated better and ate better than I. Granny didn't love the pig more than me, she just knew that come winter I would not be the sausage on the biscuit.

Click to expand...

It happens I guess.

It's a handy barometer for me, human attitude to other species. What has sentient life got to do with economic value? The capitalist assessment of life's worth in terms of currency. Hypocritically, I value the lives of non human species above many humans.

I find that view strange (putting monetary value on life) and lacking empathy... How are companionship, friendship, love a "waste" of any sort. I'm afraid I can't understand this.

As someone who will never have children, has mental illnesses and spends a lot of time alone, my cat is extremely precious.