Confussion

Losin said:

But after that i have stumbled on topic of slavery.

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Hello again.

About that just let me talk about slavery in Islam.

The first thing we must know that Islam didn’t create slavery. Slavery was already there. But why Islam didn’t stop slavery? Or did it?

Why slavery in such time? There are many reasons

1- Both financial and social security. When their country or tribe lost the war, they also lost most or all of their money as war booty. Being out of money and food, it becomes necessary for an individual to find the means for basic survival in life. Living as a slave would provide this.

2- Protection from hostile individuals. Even under the Islamic rule, you can still find hostile individuals who violate the Law and take matters into their own hands. An enemy family can be sometime in danger if they don't have a "protector".

3- Widows, Orphans, and the extremely poor of the enemy side need the financial and social protection from a Master. Back then, there were no governments with good social system that protects everyone. Slavery back then was that social system in special cases.
There are probably more points I can add, but I think these are sufficient enough


First of all let us look at a scenario where stopping slavery was done. It was done by Abraham Linclon. But did that solve the problem? I don’t think because there was still hate between both sides towards the others. Linclon didn’t deal with the problem; he dealt with the result of the problem. But I am not discrediting what he did at all.

The problem I was referring to was racism which resulted in slavery. What is he Islamic stand of racism?

First thing I want to say about the subject is that racism was the first sin (in Islam) committed when satan refused to bow to Adam ( or in front of him)when Allah ordered him to. It wasn’t the story of Eve telling Adam to eat from the tree that was the first sin, as matter of fact, Eve wasn't a motivator of the idea in Islam, Satan was who did the whispering to Adam and Eve.


Second, 49:13 O mankind, indeed We have created you from male and female and made you peoples and tribes that you may know one another. Indeed, the most noble of you in the sight of Allah is the most righteous of you. Indeed, Allah is Knowing and Acquainted.


Also The Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him), during his Last Sermon in Minâ, said: “O people! Your Lord is one Lord, and you all share the same father. There is no preference for Arabs over non-Arabs, nor for non-Arabs over Arabs. Neither is their preference forwhite people over black people, nor for black people over white people. Preference is only through righteousness.” Then he said: “Have I conveyed the message?” and the people declared that he had. [Musnad Ahmad (22391)]


Now let us look to how Islam dealt with the problem.

First, considering the treatment they were receiving, how did Islam approach this subject? (right hand possession includes slaves)

4:36 Worship Allah and associate nothing with Him, and to parents do good, and to relatives, orphans, the needy, the near neighbor, the neighbor farther away, the companion at your side, the traveler, and those whom your right hands possess. Indeed, Allah does not like those who are self-deluding and boastful.


76:5-9
5 Indeed, the righteous will drink from a cup [of wine] whose mixture is of Kafur, 6 A spring of which the [righteous] servants of Allah will drink; they will make it gush forth in force [and abundance].7 They [are those who] fulfill [their] vows and fear a Day whose evil will be widespread.8And they give food in spite of love for it to the needy, the orphan, and the captive,9[Saying], "We feed you only for the countenance of Allah . We wish not from you reward or gratitude.


Islam brought about a transformation in the situation. It taught that the slave was the brother of the master and that he had rights as well. The prophet commanded: “They are your brothers and relatives! Let each one provide for the brother under him with the food that he himself eats and with the clothes that he himself wears. Place not upon them any task that is overbearing for them. If you do assign them a difficult task, you must help them in its execution.” (Bukhari, Muslim)

Al-Bukhari reported that Abu Dharr and Bilal, the Abyssinian, both of whom were among the earliest Muslims, once quarreled and insulted each other. Carried away by his anger, Abu Dharr said to Bilal, "You son of a black woman!" Bilal complained about this to the Prophet (peace be on him), who turned to Abu Dharr, saying, "Are you taunting him about his mother? There is still some influence of jahiliyyah in you!'' (Reported by al-Bukhari.)
(jahiliyyah means days of ignorance the arabs used to live)

Abu Dharr narrated that the Prophet (peace be on him) said to him, "Look! You are no better than a white or black man unless you excel in the fear of Allah."

"Zadhan reported that Ibn Umar called his slave and he found the marks (of beating) upon his back. He said to him: I have caused you pain. He said: No. But he (Ibn Umar) said: You are free. He then took hold of something from the earth and said: There is no reward for me even to the weight equal to it. I heard Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: He who beats a slave without cognizable offence of his or slaps him, then expiation for it is that he should set him free. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4079)"


Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke,he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) - (another narrator) Dawud said:" i. e. a morsel or two". 4097. (Translation of Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"

Second, Islam provided means and encouraged freeing slaves

9:60 Zakah expenditures are only for the poor and for the needy and for those employed to collect [zakah] and for bringing hearts together [for Islam] and for freeing captives [or slaves] and for those in debt and for the cause of Allah and for the [stranded] traveler - an obligation [imposed] by Allah . And Allah is Knowing and Wise.

There are numerous sayings of the prophet which encourage the freeing of slaves. “If anyone sets free a believing slave, each of his body parts will be set free from Hell so much so that it will be the hand for a hand, the leg for a right up to the sexual organ for the sexual organ.” (Bukhari, Muslim)

In addition, setting a captive free was something muslims must do in some cases

4:92And never is it for a believer to kill a believer except by mistake. And whoever kills a believer by mistake - then the freeing of a believing slave and a compensation payment presented to the deceased's family [is required] unless they give [up their right as] charity. But if the deceased was from a people at war with you and he was a believer - then [only] the freeing of a believing slave; and if he was from a people with whom you have a treaty - then a compensation payment presented to his family and the freeing of a believing slave. And whoever does not find [one or cannot afford to buy one] - then [instead], a fast for two months consecutively, [seeking] acceptance of repentance from Allah . And Allah is ever Knowing and Wise.

58:3 And those who pronounce thihar from their wives and then [wish to] go back on what they said - then [there must be] the freeing of a slave before they touch one another. That is what you are admonished thereby; and Allah is Acquainted with what you do.

5:89 Allah will not impose blame upon you for what is meaningless in your oaths, but He will impose blame upon you for [breaking] what you intended of oaths. So its expiation is the feeding of ten needy people from the average of that which you feed your [own] families or clothing them or the freeing of a slave. But whoever cannot find [or afford it] - then a fast of three days [is required]. That is the expiation for oaths when you have sworn. But guard your oaths. Thus does Allah make clear to you His verses that you may be grateful.


90: 10-13
10 And have shown him the two ways? 11 But he has not broken through the difficult pass.12 And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass? 13 It is the freeing of a slave 14 Or feeding on a day of severe hunger 15An orphan of near relationship 16 Or a needy person in misery

(Describing how to reach the way to heaven)

So let us get the whole picture now.

Islam approach is first to direct people how they must treat their slaves. It is as if they were brothers. So there will be no harsh feeling towards each other. Second, Islam has made it clear that setting a slave free is among the good deeds and sometimes a must do. So muslims were basically going to slave markets and buying slaves so that they would set them free. Instant buying, and instant freeing. Fourth, Islam only took war captives when the enemy is taking war captives only.

So Islam dealt with the problem slowly and wisely. Besides, has Islam set the slaves free all at once it would have not been fair to the masters. At that time, slaves was an assets. It was normal. In addition, freeing them after such a horrible treatment was in place wouldn't be a good decision to take.

Slavery in Islam

Losin said:

My main problem is that it seems like muslims tody have problems with identification and what is right. for example one says the beating wife is ok, another say you cannot beat your wife ever and the other says you can beat her but only if you have good reason. Why is it ?
Thank you for your answers.
With love Losin :bow:

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The main problem about hitting the wife come from the verse 4:34

4:34 Dr. Ghali

Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.






The word looks not nice. But how the "beat" is taken ? The problem here is in the word lightly. Other translations has this part as "strike them", so in my comments I will refer to the "beating" by the word "strike them" as it is written in the Sahih International translation.

"When the above Quran verse authorizing the beating of a refractory wife was revealed, the Prophet is reported to have said: "I wanted one thing, but God has willed another thing – and what God has willed must be best (see Manar V, 74). With all this, he stipulated in his sermon on the occasion of the Farewell Pilgrimage, shortly before his death, that the beating should be resorted to only if the wife "has become guilty, in an obvious manner, of immoral conduct", and that it should be done "in such a way as not to cause pain (ghayr mubarrih)"; authentic Traditions to this effect are found in Muslim, Tirmidhi, Abu Daud, Nasai and Ibn Majah. On the basis of these Traditions, all the authorities stress that this beating, if resorted to at all, should be more or less symbolic – "with a toothbrush, or some such thing" (Tabari, quoting the views of scholars of the earliest times), or even "with a folded handkerchief" (Razi); and some of the greatest Muslim scholars (e.g. Ash-Shafii) are of the opinion that it is just barely permissible, and should preferable be avoided: and they justify this opinion by the prophet’s personal feelings with regard to this problem."[41]


the purpose is not inflicting pain.

If someone came to me and said to me "we are in danger", I may have different reactions.

I may thing he is exaggerating it.
I may think we are in little danger.
I may think there is really a huge danger.

But if someone came, and shook my body and told me we are in danger, than I would understand that it is big. So establishing physical contact delivers the message more effectively. And we are talking about serious problem in the verse. It is marriage and divorce.

Striking came out to be the third stage. The two previous stages are [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed.

Let us reflect on these verses by thinking of the situation.

The first stage was advising them. How much time would advising them take? A day or two? Ofcourse not. This is a serious problem, a first stage requires more time than that.

Stage 2 is [then if they persist], forsake them in bed. Similarly I think forsaking requires more time than a 1 week by logic.

Step 3 Is the striking [with a toothbrush].

However just because the striking is there, doesn't mean you have to strike. Read the verse which is after that. It says

4:35 And if you fear dissension between the two, send an arbitrator from his people and an arbitrator from her people. If they both desire reconciliation, Allah will cause it between them. Indeed, Allah is ever Knowing and Acquainted [with all things].

Therefore, you can go for the verse 4:35 to solve the problem. Just because it says strike them doesn't mean striking is for the purpose of inflicting pain. Neither does it mean you have to do it because you have to read the full context.

Thank you for your breathtaking answer. I take it, that beating should not cause pain. But I still think that women are mature so they can decide on their own what is best for them, with this beating i would just bring on her some of my ideas about what is right and what is wrong. Firsly there should be mutual interest disscusion, which will try to resolve this problem by talking about it.
Only problem whcih really saddens me that what if vast majority of muslims will misinterpret this verses and when somebody will stand out against it he will be called kufir. I see that Muslims in warfare also think about well being of opposite site wchich is really nice.

Losin said:

Thank you for your breathtaking answer. I take it, that beating should not cause pain. But I still think that women are mature so they can decide on their own what is best for them, with this beating i would just bring on her some of my ideas about what is right and what is wrong. Firsly there should be mutual interest disscusion, which will try to resolve this problem by talking about it.
Only problem whcih really saddens me that what if vast majority of muslims will misinterpret this verses and when somebody will stand out against it he will be called kufir. I see that Muslims in warfare also think about well being of opposite site wchich is really nice.

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Yes friend, and beating is just to establish physical contact so she would be better aware of the situation. Beating by a toothbrush doesn't inflict any pain. Also it is the last stage, and you can still not do it, as shown in the following verse.

About the kufir part, no muslim has the right to judge a person. This is not Islamic. One thing I always found amazing in Islam is that you can never judge a person. Repentance and forgiveness, if they are from the heart, are supreme.

Let me also add that the English translation of the Quraan doesn't deliver the best meaning of the Quraan.

Take the verse we are talking about for example.

Sahih International
Men are in charge of women by [right of] what Allah has given one over the other and what they spend [for maintenance] from their wealth. So righteous women are devoutly obedient, guarding in [the husband's] absence what Allah would have them guard. But those [wives] from whom you fear arrogance - [first] advise them; [then if they persist], forsake them in bed; and [finally], strike them. But if they obey you [once more], seek no means against them. Indeed, Allah is ever Exalted and Grand.

Muhsin Khan
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property, etc.). As to those women on whose part you see ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (next), refuse to share their beds, (and last) beat them (lightly, if it is useful), but if they return to obedience, seek not against them means (of annoyance). Surely, Allah is Ever Most High, Most Great.

Pickthall
Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.

Yusuf Ali
Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).

Shakir
Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.

Dr. Ghali
Men are the ever upright (managers) (of the affairs) of women for what Allah has graced some of them over (some) others and for what they have expended of their riches. So righteous women are devout, preservers of the Unseen for. And the ones whom you fear their non-compliance, then admonish them and forsake them in their beds, (Literally: a madajic= reeclining) and strike them, (i.e. hit them lightly) yet in case they obey you, then do not seek inequitably any way against them; surely Allah has been Ever-Exalted, Ever-Great.

I guess i will continue to follow Quran teachings (I said shahada once but, think it wasnt said with full conviction so for me it does not count) and I will keep shahada ready when I will realize that Muslim live is really the right one. Can i be Muslim without no one knowing, because i dont think my parents will be happy about it and also I live in society where i would be constantly bashed with arguments that i lost my mind and that i was convinced by lies and I will realize it later... I will keep my relationship with God very personal. I hope it does not mean something like I am ashamed of being Muslim.

Losin said:

I guess i will continue to follow Quran teachings (I said shahada once but, think it wasnt said with full conviction so for me it does not count) and I will keep shahada ready when I will realize that Muslim live is really the right one. Can i be Muslim without no one knowing, because i dont think my parents will be happy about it and also I live in society where i would be constantly bashed with arguments that i lost my mind and that i was convinced by lies and I will realize it later... I will keep my relationship with God very personal. I hope it does not mean something like I am ashamed of being Muslim.

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Well I've always advised people living in a different society to not change their name after taking the shahada if this would make their life difficult.


Similarly, I advise you to do what best suites you. Anyways take your time with Islam, you will surely find your way InshAllah

Losin said:

For example Im a dog lover and i found there is some hadith which says that muhhamad said "kill all dogs" or something like that, which is not acceptable for me. Sorry for long posts im just confussed about what should i think. Thanks for answer

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We don't kill dogs, we use them most of time to protect the house/the cattle.
Of course you can also find some muslims having dogs (at home) but because of the prayers they shouldn't be at home.

It's not a hate towards animals, we don't have the right to kill without reasons or torture any animal.
Something for exemple like the Corrida is forbidden in Islam.

I find the concept of that angels are afraid to enter house where is dog kind of hard to grasp. Why would Angel be affected by dog? It doesnt make any sense to me.

Losin said:

I find the concept of that angels are afraid to enter house where is dog kind of hard to grasp. Why would Angel be affected by dog? It doesnt make any sense to me.

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Hello sister

-some scholars said it's ok to have a dog inside the house, when it's just for garde (necessary) .

and some others said : because Dogs are dirty animals (it's tongue, hair, crap ...etc )
so the angels did not enter to that home .

I don't know IF it's sinful action if you have a dog inside the home .

God knows best .

Losin said:

I guess i will continue to follow Quran teachings (I said shahada once but, think it wasnt said with full conviction so for me it does not count) and I will keep shahada ready when I will realize that Muslim live is really the right one. Can i be Muslim without no one knowing, because i dont think my parents will be happy about it and also I live in society where i would be constantly bashed with arguments that i lost my mind and that i was convinced by lies and I will realize it later... I will keep my relationship with God very personal. I hope it does not mean something like I am ashamed of being Muslim.

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Allah knows your heart very well, he knows if you are hiding your Islam cuz of shaming or cuz of the expected pressure on your soul, i myself excusing you and i see it's better not to declare your faith specially that i guess it's not that too strong to face a whole community by something they may see it's " SHAME"
Allah is the most merciful than me, so 100% he excuses you, Allah says "Your Lord is most knowing of what is within yourselves. If you should be righteous [in intention] - then indeed He is ever, to the often returning [to Him], Forgiving" 17:25

peace with love

Losin said:

Hi everybody.... I dont really know whats happening, but thats why am i here. I practice zen-buddhism and im satisfied with it, beceause it imrove my life so much... But about 2 weeks ago I suddenly felt so strong love inside, that i couldnt describe and in my head i had only one think Islam. I thought to my self "what" ? I hated this religion so much... But i decided to follow this feeling i tried salat. I felt so peacufully after it. I dont really understand what is happening, because i still have so much problems with some islam teaching... So Im here to learn more about what bugges me My main problem is that it seems like muslims tody have problems with identification and what is right. for example one says the beating wife is ok, another say you cannot beat your wife ever and the other says you can beat her but only if you have good reason. Why is it ?
Thank you for your answers.
With love Losin :bow:

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Based on the nature of human, you can't assume to see a group of people who are all good people seeking the truth and nothing but the truth...

In any group of people: there are the truthful, the evil-doers, and those who are confused blind followers...

However, the truth is clear...just invest some time to study the arguments of the different schools within Islam...