Christianity... An issue,

...And this may apply to other religions too.
Something that has nagged me for a long while...

I once was chatting to an old work colleague, a very nice person, who unfortunately(in my eyes) had become a born again christian.
I asked him the question...
Q) I have lived a fairly decent life. I try not to hurt people, I am tolerant of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles, and I live by the rule "Do unto others as you would have done to yourself", BUT I will never accept Jesus Christ, or god into my heart. Where do YOU think I will go when I die...?
He answered without even the slightest grin ... A lake of fire...hell.
Q) Moira Hindley... Notorious child killer. Repented her sins in jail and accepted jesus into her heart. Where will she go?
His sincere answer was... Heaven.

Please someone make sense of this.

Yes i understand your problems its hard logic to follow that only belief allows salvation.

frg001 said:

...And this may apply to other religions too.
Something that has nagged me for a long while...

I once was chatting to an old work colleague, a very nice person, who unfortunately(in my eyes) had become a born again christian.
I asked him the question...
Q) I have lived a fairly decent life. I try not to hurt people, I am tolerant of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles, and I live by the rule "Do unto others as you would have done to yourself", BUT I will never accept Jesus Christ, or god into my heart. Where do YOU think I will go when I die...?
He answered without even the slightest grin ... A lake of fire...hell.
Q) Moira Hindley... Notorious child killer. Repented her sins in jail and accepted jesus into her heart. Where will she go?
His sincere answer was... Heaven.

Please someone make sense of this.

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This is the classic logic of a person who places belief above action. Jesus didn't ask us to believe things about him, he asked us to follow him -- to do the things he gave as examples for us to do. Your doing unto others is a good start.

The difference between you and Moira Hindley is praxis, that is, you act on your own sense of right and wrong. The good or evil you ascribe to your actions originate with you. Believers act upon a sense that we are participating in a paradigm wherein we act in response to, and on behalf of God -- where God is the initiator.

You don't consciously put God into the equation. Ms. Hindley did finally consciously put God into the equation and changed her ways.

I believe you're both going to heaven.

frg001 said:

...And this may apply to other religions too.
Something that has nagged me for a long while...

I once was chatting to an old work colleague, a very nice person, who unfortunately(in my eyes) had become a born again christian.
I asked him the question...
Q) I have lived a fairly decent life. I try not to hurt people, I am tolerant of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles, and I live by the rule "Do unto others as you would have done to yourself", BUT I will never accept Jesus Christ, or god into my heart. Where do YOU think I will go when I die...?
He answered without even the slightest grin ... A lake of fire...hell.
Q) Moira Hindley... Notorious child killer. Repented her sins in jail and accepted jesus into her heart. Where will she go?
His sincere answer was... Heaven.

Please someone make sense of this.

Click to expand...

If an individual lives his life in service to mankind and never hears the name of Baha`u'llah, the life of selfless service will speak for itself. Or at least my faith teaches that. God's grace is infinite one should recall, why should He hold a grudge?

Regards,
Scott

It really matters not what sins you have committed in the past. Repent and believe that you and everyone is a sinner and accept Jesus - you will have life (this includes Moira Hindley). What Hindley did is dispicable but... you see even I'm doing it, thinking of what his punishment should be based on human standards and not God's. Anyway, though what he did was dispicable, everybody has the chance to come to Christ.

onmybelief said:

It really matters not what sins you have committed in the past. Repent and believe that you and everyone is a sinner and accept Jesus - you will have life (this includes Moira Hindley). What Hindley did is dispicable but... you see even I'm doing it, thinking of what his punishment should be based on human standards and not God's. Anyway, though what he did was dispicable, everybody has the chance to come to Christ.

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So in your eyes, I'm off to Hell. and she is off to heaven. Nice religion you have there.

That is the reason, that faith=salvation that i gave up on christianity on my quest for a religion and came to orthodox judaism.

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16

I'm not going to judge you frg001. I'm just throwing that verse out there. The important question is "Do you think that you would go to Heaven assuming that God and Heaven are real?"

Moving on, I do think that someone like Moira Hindley would go to Heaven if she repented of her sins and accepted Christ, then followed God's word from there on. God will forgive all sins, no matter what they are. All you have to do is except him. And that's really what's wonderful about Christianity.

frg001 said:

So in your eyes, I'm off to Hell. and she is off to heaven. Nice religion you have there.

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The point is this. Imo. God loves everyone, but loathes sin. Since God is perfect, and has never sinned, all sins in his eyes are equally bad. No matter how good anybody is, the sin in their life repulses God to the point that he sent Jesus to die and be ressurected for our sins. Thus : For God so loved the world, that Whosoever Believes in Him shall not perish, but have everlasting life.

IMO that was the reason Jesus mingled with some of the most villified people of His day, to prove that anyone who accepts Christ is saved.

Christiangirl0909 said:

God will forgive all sins, no matter what they are.

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except for blaspheming against the holy spirit. That's a DEFINATE no-no!

frg001 said:

So in your eyes, I'm off to Hell. and she is off to heaven. Nice religion you have there.

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Again, we're basing this on human standards. People must learn to forgive others their sins. It seems to me you should go to heaven. But know this: those who repent will be there too. As the old hymn says:
The vilest offender who truly believes,
That moment from Jesus a pardon recieves.

except for blaspheming against the holy spirit. That's a DEFINATE no-no!

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Yes, that's true.

Haha, what a petty, insecure being he is then...

Atheist_Dave said:

Haha, what a petty, insecure being he is then...

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actually I believe that ALL sins can be forgiven with the sacrifice of Christ. Hence the parable of the prodigal son. EVERY SIN...... well except for dancing with the opposite sex!...........KIDDING!!!!

Christiangirl0909 said:

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16
I'm not going to judge you frg001. I'm just throwing that verse out there. The important question id "Do you think that you would go to Heaven assuming that God and Heaven are real?"

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Ok... I cannot answer that question. I do not believe in God,Satan, Heaven or Hell.
According to the rulebook that you quote though it's obviously it's a no...

Christiangirl0909 said:

Moving on, I do think that someone like Moira Hindley would go to Heaven if she repented of her sins and accepted Christ, then followed God's word from there on. God will forgive all sins, no matter what they are. All you have to do is except him.

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But you see, I never will. BUT I lead a fairly blame-free life. I regard myself as a good, kind person. I have flaws but then we all do.
But according, again to you rulebook... I am off to hell. I'd better pack my shorts...

Christiangirl0909 said:

"He who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned."
Mark 16:16
I'm not going to judge you frg001. I'm just throwing that verse out there. The important question id "Do you think that you would go to Heaven assuming that God and Heaven are real?"

Click to expand...

Ok... I cannot answer that question. I do not believe in God,Satan, Heaven or Hell.
According to the rulebook that you quote though it's obviously it's a no...

Christiangirl0909 said:

Moving on, I do think that someone like Moira Hindley would go to Heaven if she repented of her sins and accepted Christ, then followed God's word from there on. God will forgive all sins, no matter what they are. All you have to do is except him.

Click to expand...

But you see, I never will. BUT I lead a fairly blame-free life. I regard myself as a good, kind person. I have flaws but then we all do.
But according, again to your rulebook... I am off to hell. I'd better pack my shorts...

Atheist_Dave said:

Haha, what a petty, insecure being he is then...

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i tend to agree with this, though my reasons are far different than yours Dave.

IF it's true (based upon Mark) that Ms. Hindley is going to heaven and frg is going to hell, which of you wants to make that decision and pass that kind of judgment on a person who is good and kind? And don't hand me the cop-out that "judgment is up to God...I just quote what the Bible says about it..." Many of you already are passing judgment on frg, just by quoting the Bible and taking what it says literalistically.

It's not our party...we don't either invite or keep out... Why not just accept that God will take of people in God's way, and in God's time?

AlanGurvey said:

That is the reason, that faith=salvation that i gave up on christianity on my quest for a religion and came to orthodox judaism.

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Thankfully not all of Christianity has such a belief and I find it very hard to reconcile to the Bible. Faith without works is dead as James says, after all. Orthodoxy teaches that those outside the Church may indeed be saved and that some of those in the Church may not. We do not know who will be saved but leave it in God's hands, and we are confident that He wishes that all men be saved. Simple belief in Christ is no guarantee of salvation and nor is a lack of belief in Him guarantee of damnation. We also believe that more is required of those who receive more, so it's probably rather harder for me to live up to God's standards than it is for someone who is not Christian. I, after all, cannot rely on the excuse that I simply didn't know better to justify my actions.

James

frg001 said:

Q) I have lived a fairly decent life. I try not to hurt people, I am tolerant of other peoples beliefs and lifestyles, and I live by the rule "Do unto others as you would have done to yourself", BUT I will never accept Jesus Christ, or god into my heart. Where do YOU think I will go when I die...?
He answered without even the slightest grin ... A lake of fire...hell.

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He is right, you will be sent to hell for your sins.
You can be forgiven because Jesus paid for your sins on the Cross but instead because you are self-righteous and believe you haved lived a "fairly decent life" you shun Gods forgivness - you dont believe you need it.
God will not judge us by our standard of decency - he is perfect, have you ever lied? Stolen? Lusted? I know ive done all those things and its not until we realise that we would stand guilty befor a Holy Perfect God that we realise we need his forgiveness.

frg001 said:

Q) Moira Hindley... Notorious child killer. Repented her sins in jail and accepted jesus into her heart. Where will she go?
His sincere answer was... Heaven.

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She will go to heaven if she truly did accept Jesus as her Saviour.
What difference does comparing one guily person to another do? While one may have done worse things it dosnt mean the other isnt still guilty of their offences.
For example, if the police caught and charged me with stealing 2 cars and my only defence was that there are plennty of other people in the world who are much much worse then me should the judge just let me go?
There will always be people better and worse then you, somtimes much better sometimes much worse but this in no way lessens your own sin in Gods eyes. Perhaps your rejection of the sacrifice his Son made is much more serious then you think and perhaps you reject it because you dont think God regards your sin as serious.