Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil?

Call_of_the_Wild said:

Yeah, and the "becauseittakessolongtohappen" also gets five stars when skeptics of evolution (myself) asks the question of "why can't we observe macroevolution?"

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Call, we know you are a skeptic when it comes to evolution. Force fitting that into a topic that has nothing whatever to do with evolution seems pointless though.

It has been my experience that whenever anyone answers a comment with a question that has nothing to do with the subject, they are dodging the topic.

Please note I expanded that last comment to 'anyone'. I'm not pointing the comment at you. 'Kay?

Call_of_the_Wild said:

I am sorry, but I can't even get past the title of the post...

"Why does my God allow children to die? Is he evil" First of all, children are not immune to death, in general. I mean hell, we are all going to die eventually, with the four main questions surrounding our death is when, where, why, and how. Second, according to Christian theology, no one really "dies"...yeah, the body dies, but your body is not "you", and there are reasons, both biblically and philosophically, to conclude that "you" will continue to exist even after your body dies. Third, are you asking is God evil for allowing children to die, or is God evil for allowing children to die in gruesome manners? Either way, according to Christian theism, we should have faith that no matter what happens, God is in sovereign control of everything, whether good or bad.

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The question is whether all these children will go to heaven.

If yes, why do they have this "privilege"?

If all very young children have a risk free pass to experience an eternity of bliss, then it is actually evil to let people grow old, isn't?

Ciao

- viole

viole said:

The question is whether all these children will go to heaven.

If yes, why do they have this "privilege"?

If all very young children have a risk free pass to experience an eternity of bliss, then it is actually evil to let people grow old, isn't?

Ciao

- viole

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So the idea is to hold people accountable for things that they haven't done yet? Wow.

Gordian Knot said:

Call, we know you are a skeptic when it comes to evolution. Force fitting that into a topic that has nothing whatever to do with evolution seems pointless though.

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It is the same thing, actually. God's ways are higher than our ways and we can't possibly know the answer as to why every single little thing happens...and the poster that I was responding to was making a mockery of this so I said "ok, let me bring up the naturalist' response when you ask them about something that they believe in (evolution)."

Same stuff.

Gordian Knot said:

It has been my experience that whenever anyone answers a comment with a question that has nothing to do with the subject, they are dodging the topic.

Please note I expanded that last comment to 'anyone'. I'm not pointing the comment at you. 'Kay?

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Well, it doesn't apply to me anyway because prior to the post that you are referring to, I made a post that was in direct response to the OP. 'Kay?

Call_of_the_Wild said:

So the idea is to hold people accountable for things that they haven't done yet? Wow.

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Nope.

I am just asking why children have this privilege. And I mean the privilege of dying before becoming accountable.

If you think rationally and not emotionally about it, as a Christian you should rejoice when a young child dies. A risk free ticket to an eternity of bliss.

It is obvious that if a child manages to get old enough to make accountable choices then she will increase her risks of damnation. After all Christianity covers only one third of the population, so we have already 2 odds out of 3 of not becoming christian, approximately. If she dies before that, then she can only win.

Don't you think so?

If not. Why not?

Ciao

- viole

viole said:

Nope.

I am just asking why children have this privilege. And I mean the privilege of dying before becoming accountable.

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So is God supposed to send children to hell before they reach the age of accountability?

viole said:

If you think rationally and not emotionally about it, as a Christian you should rejoice when a young child dies. A risk free ticket to an eternity of bliss.

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Well, maybe so. Maybe that was the message when King David wept about his illegitimate child he had with Bathsheba. He cried and pleaded with God while the child was ill..but once the child died, he stopped crying...he didn't rejoiced, but he realized that there was no point in crying because what was done is done...and he said the infamous "I will go to him, but he will not come to me"...meaning the child was with God and one day he will be with the child.

viole said:

It is obvious that if a child manages to get old enough to make accountable choices then she will increase her risks of damnation. After all Christianity covers only one third of the population, so we have already 2 odds out of 3 of not becoming christian, approximately. If she dies before that, then she can only win.

Don't you think so?

If not. Why not?

Ciao

- viole

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Maybe God only allows the children that he knew would be saved (if they had grown up), and he uses their death as a means to carry out an unforeseen will of his. I don't know, but what I do know is that God is just..and his actions are just.

Call_of_the_Wild said:

Maybe God only allows the children that he knew would be saved (if they had grown up), and he uses their death as a means to carry out an unforeseen will of his.

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What? No free will check?

So, if a woman aborts a child, she can be confident that her child would have become a christian? The same when thousands of children die after an earthquake in a a muslim or hindu country? And what about all the kids killed by the nazis? And the millions who starved to death?

Sure all those kids would have become Christian if left alone.

Makes sense. Looks like God does not like to populate the earth with future Christians. Probably to avoid a traffic jam in the air during the Rapture, who knows?

I don't know,

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I agree, you don't.

but what I do know is that God is just..and his actions are just.

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what other defense do you have left? This one is pretty lame.

Ciao

- viole

Why does God allow evil to breath and live?

I'll go right to the source.

Why?

Lyndale said:

Why does God allow evil to breath and live?

I'll go right to the source.

Why?

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His only excuse is His not existence..

Ciao

- viole

Childen cannot be saved by a being who does not exist.

Lyndale said:

Why does God allow evil to breath and live?

I'll go right to the source.

Why?

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Because he does not exist. And if he did, evil, satan, hell, would have to exist necessarily in order to give you something to be frightened of. Without the promise of eternal hell and suffering, there's no reall no point to placing your faith in God or Jesus.

Quite simply: it's a racket.

Call_of_the_Wild said:

So is God supposed to send children to hell before they reach the age of accountability?

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What are the verses used to validate the "age of accountability"?

Quatermass said:

Because he does not exist. And if he did, evil, satan, hell, would have to exist necessarily in order to give you something to be frightened of. Without the promise of eternal hell and suffering, there's no reall no point to placing your faith in God or Jesus.

Quite simply: it's a racket.

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If he did exist. And, if he is all-loving, all-merciful etc. And he knew what was going to happen, then he set most of us up for failure. But on top of that, supposedly only humans have souls or spirits or whatever that thing is that is supposed to live on and either go to heaven or hell, then why did he create all the other forms of life that live, breathe, suffer and die and go nowhere but back to dust? Or, do we just die and turn to dust too but would rather pay religious leaders to tell us stories of wonderful things that are in store for us if we obey their rules and give them money?

CG Didymus said:

What are the verses used to validate the "age of accountability"?

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I don't think such is in Tanakh - but from other Talmudic sources.


In Judaism religious maturity is when a young woman reaches 12 (bat mitzvah,) or a young man reaches the age of 13 (bar mitzvah.)


Apparently, originally, they could reach mature status early if they were deemed very intelligent.


The full ritual 12/13 birthday maturity, came into being in the 14th - 16th centuries.


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Ingledsva said:

I don't think such is in Tanakh - but from other Talmudic sources.


In Judaism religious maturity is when a young woman reaches 12 (bat mitzvah,) or a young man reaches the age of 13 (bar mitzvah.)


Apparently, originally, they could reach mature status early if they were deemed very intelligent.


The full ritual 12/13 birthday maturity, came into being in the 14th - 16th centuries.


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How do Christians use that to justify God not sending a supposed "born in sin" human to hell? I would guess that Catholic Christians believe infant baptism is what "saves" a child from hell, but I wonder how Protestants can justify it?

viole said:

What? No free will check?

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A newborn baby/free will? Gimme a break.

viole said:

So, if a woman aborts a child, she can be confident that her child would have become a christian?

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She can have the same confidence that David had when the Lord took his son away from him in the David/Bathsheba account.

viole said:

The same when thousands of children die after an earthquake in a a muslim or hindu country? And what about all the kids killed by the nazis? And the millions who starved to death?

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They are in good hands (God's hand's). Stop worrying about children that inherit the kingdom of God and worry about your own eternal destination.

viole said:

Sure all those kids would have become Christian if left alone.

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I know we all are guilty of assuming sometimes, but this one takes the cake.

viole said:

Makes sense. Looks like God does not like to populate the earth with future Christians. Probably to avoid a traffic jam in the air during the Rapture, who knows?

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That was kinda funny.

viole said:

I agree, you don't.

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Apparently, Jesus knows...Matthew 18:1-5

1At that time the disciples came to Jesus and asked, “Who, then, is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?”

2He called a little child to him, and placed the child among them. 3And he said: “Truly I tell you, unless you change and become like little children, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.


4Therefore, whoever takes the lowly position of this child is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven. 5And whoever welcomes one such child in my name welcomes me.


Wow. That is one. Here is another...Matthew 19:13-15


13Then people brought little children to Jesus for him to place his hands on them and pray for them. But the disciples rebuked them.

14Jesus said, “Let the little children come to me, and do not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these.” 15When he had placed his hands on them, he went on from there.

So you can come up with any kind of scenario you want...as I said, children are safe.

viole said:

what other defense do you have left? This one is pretty lame.

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Really? So are the vast majority of atheistic arguments.

CG Didymus said:

What are the verses used to validate the "age of accountability"?

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The bible doesn't give an exact age..but I refuse to believe that there will be a bunch of 10-11 year old children in hell.

Call_of_the_Wild said:

The bible doesn't give an exact age..but I refuse to believe that there will be a bunch of 10-11 year old children in hell.

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I refuse to believe a lot of things Christians do, even when they show me plain scripture verses that imply what they are telling me is true. So, Catholic Christians have infant baptism, why would they need to do that if they "knew" children would go to heaven if they died? And, isn't the whole Christian premise supposed to be something like that Jesus had to die in our place because we can't pay our inherited sin debt, that somehow we are born separated from God?

CG Didymus said:

How do Christians use that to justify God not sending a supposed "born in sin" human to hell? I would guess that Catholic Christians believe infant baptism is what "saves" a child from hell, but I wonder how Protestants can justify it?

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I think they misconstrue the meaning behind certain verses.


Romans 5:12-18 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law. Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come.


Psalm 51:5 Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

People seem to take verses such as those above as meaning we are sinners from birth – born that way.

However, that isn’t what they actually say.


It says Sin entered the world - not us, - and death because of sin. We know the difference between right and wrong - and hence are held accountable.


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The Genesis Adam and Eve story doesn’t say all are born in sin because of Adam.

It says the consequence is KNOWING GOOD and EVIL = accountability! All in this world know the difference, and are accountable for their sin.


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Psalm 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb; they go astray from birth, speaking lies.

We know infants are not wicked. This is just a colloquialism meaning the truly wicked go bad early.


Ezekiel 28:15 You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created, till unrighteousness was found in you.

Note that “TILL.”


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CG Didymus said:

I refuse to believe a lot of things Christians do, even when they show me plain scripture verses that imply what they are telling me is true. So, Catholic Christians have infant baptism, why would they need to do that if they "knew" children would go to heaven if they died? And, isn't the whole Christian premise supposed to be something like that Jesus had to die in our place because we can't pay our inherited sin debt, that somehow we are born separated from God?

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Catholics like a lot of Christian denominations - believe we are "born sinners."


However, infants can't actually sin yet, so -


They believe unbaptized babies, that die, go to Purgatory for a while, to wipe away that "inherited" sin, then on to Heaven.


But if they Baptize them - washing away that "born in sin," and they then die, -they go straight to heaven.


In other words they don't believe any baby/young child - anyone below the age of accountability - is going to Hell, even if unbaptized.



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