Is it better to be a believer or an athiest?

roli · Mar 10, 2006

Opethian said:
You are very, very wrong. Being atheist does not mean not following any moral guidelines. Being atheist means not believing in god, and nothing more. There is no need to believe in god to have your own moral guidelines. Everything you wrote here is utter piffle (thanks for the saying popesays :bow: ).

I like to hear what ,"your moral guidelines may be. Would you be a relativist,perhaps?
If you did'nt know already ,God is and claims to be the epitome and essence of what morality is and was intended to be.
That is why mankind has an innate moral law written on their heart,we were made in the image of God but sin perverted that and man therefoe rebelled live today as though there is no moral boundary.
Man has altered and catered their morality to suit a particular lifestyle

Utheran · Mar 12, 2006

But the idea that god has told us the "right" thing, is your belief. If my belief is that my moral guidelines are correct then they are equally valid. Just not from you're point of view. I would still have moral guidelines, they could even be the same as yours.

Utheran · Mar 12, 2006

as to the original question, it is undoubtably better for ones odds to be a believer. If god exists, you may be saved. If he doesn't then you will die like evryone else. If you are an atheist, Then if god does exist you are screwed. If he doesn't you die like everyone else. By the odds its better to believe. (PS i'm an agnostic anyways)

Doodlebug02 · Mar 13, 2006

Its better to be a believer because a believer will inherit eternal life. Now if an Atheist has ever been saved in his/her life, they'll also go to Heaven because you cannot lose your salvation even if you quit believing in God.

(KJV) 2 Timothy 2:13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

Opethian · Mar 13, 2006

You think you'll inherit eternal life. I don't want to be part of the delusion.

scitsofreaky · Mar 13, 2006

Utheran said:
as to the original question, it is undoubtably better for ones odds to be a believer. If god exists, you may be saved. If he doesn't then you will die like evryone else. If you are an atheist, Then if god does exist you are screwed. If he doesn't you die like everyone else. By the odds its better to believe. (PS i'm an agnostic anyways)

Well, you are only "screwed" if God is a God that wants us to be "saved." But then there is still the problem of which "believer" to be. Chances are slim that you will choose the right one, assuming one religion is the right one, because there are so many. And then you have to deal with different sects within the religions, of which many claim they are the right one while all the others are wrong. So really, even being a "believer" doesn't give you that good of a chance.

roli · Mar 13, 2006

Holly said:
Holly said:

Its better to be a believer because a believer will inherit eternal life. Now if an Atheist has ever been saved in his/her life, they'll also go to Heaven because you cannot lose your salvation even if you quit believing in God.

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There are just too many quotes from Jesus that refute that claim that even if you turn away from God you are still saved
When you are truly born again and trust Christ as savior and surrender you life to Him there is just know way in God's green earth you will turn away.
The question that should be asked is did you truly come to Christ believe and receive Him in the first place,many do with their mouths but their hearts are far from Him and that is for him to determine.
The bible warns of many Matt7: 22 Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 23 And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Heb 10:26 For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, 27 but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries.
Heb6:4 For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted the heavenly gift, and have become partakers of the Holy Spirit, 5 and have tasted the good word of God and the powers of the age to come, 6 *if they fall away, to renew them again to repentance, since they crucify again for themselves the Son of God, and put Him to an open shame.

Opethian · Mar 14, 2006

Jesus guides me!

Super Universe · Mar 14, 2006

If purely existing is enough for you, getting up early, fighting the traffic for 15 miles, and getting home after dark five days a week so you can afford to cook out and have a few beers on the weekend.

This one chance at life and what do we do with it? We BBQ.

If that is all you need then I guess there is nothing wrong with being an athiest.

Opethian · Mar 15, 2006

If purely existing is enough for you, getting up early, fighting the traffic for 15 miles, and getting home after dark five days a week so you can afford to cook out and have a few beers on the weekend.

This one chance at life and what do we do with it? We BBQ.

If that is all you need then I guess there is nothing wrong with being an athiest.

What kind of a comment is this? So you're saying all atheists are idiots that do nothing but work, fight traffic, cook out and have a few beers?
Well I'll gladly counter that.
If purely giving up full control of the only life you will ever have, for a chance of an eternal life that is delusional and you will never be given is all you need, then go ahead and be a believer.

roli · Mar 15, 2006

[

quote=Opethian]What kind of a comment is this? So you're saying all atheists are idiots that do nothing but work, fight traffic, cook out and have a few beers?
Well I'll gladly counter that.
If purely giving up full control of the only life you will ever have, for a chance of an eternal life that is delusional and you will never be given is all you need, then go ahead and be a believer.

[/quote]

You keep mentioning that we christains are delusional to believe in eternal life.
Well I must agree that if it was based solely on assumptions and speculation sugar coated with blind faith and labelled religion,I would most certainly question it's volitity, but...... when the spirit of the living God comes into a person's heart upon confession that Jesus Christ is Lord ,repents of their sin and trust Jesus He comes to set up residence within a person's spirit he literally moves in.

You will then and only then have the assurance and confirmation and total proof that through His Spirit testifying with ours we are sons of God,heirs and joint heirs to eternal life and Jesus did die for sins,Repentance leads to salvation, Christ will return to judge sinners,sin will be punished, Heaven is for believer's and hell is for those who choose to disbelieve and the end is at hand.
Don't question this unless you have ventured over to that personal experience, you will only do yourself a grave injustice.
It's an awesome thing when you know that you know,that you know you will live forever.

I will explain a concept to you that your logic and reasoning mind will never be able to decipher,or grasp.
God does not work according to the wisdom and knowledge of His creation. Man never has ,and never will figure God out by mere reason and the use of logic,
He laugh's at it all and says just from what is created man will be without excuse on judgement day.
So it is better to believe,from my perspective and if I am wrong,(only said to make a point) which I absolutely know for certain I am not, as He lives inside of me and it is not possible to be understood by the natural man's finite mind.
But if wrong, I will meet you where your going ,but if we are right that will have been an eternal error on your part and you will have eternity to regret it,

Much like if you attempted to walked across a 2000foot bridge and regardless of all the opposition you heard about it being unreliable,you reasoned yourself out of it listening to your conscience and rationale mind governed by the pride that I will do it,only to find you plummeting to your death with seconds to embrace regret and realize the ultimate miscalculation on your part has cost you far more than you assumed.

roli · Aug 18, 2007

Ormiston said:
So you would agree that insanity and halucinations are absolutely the greatest experiences possible because they produce limitless faith which inturn opens up mysteries and hidden secrets typically left closed to the sane? Some have self-respect for what we believe in.

If having a relationship with Jesus ,trusting him for salvation and everlasting life is insanity to you, then you have fulfilled scripture.
The bible says" the message of the cross of Christ is foolishness to them that are perishing "
My friend when and if you find Jesus and the truth about what his word talks about ,you won't be moved by skeptics,scoffers and mockers, because the assurance and witness that the Holy Spirit gives you the moment you become born again, that heaven is your home and Jesus is the Son of God who came to take away the sins of the world to those who recieve him, will remove all ignorance you once had.

Bishka · Aug 18, 2007

Bumping a long dead thread??

rocketman · Aug 18, 2007

roli said:
But if wrong, I will meet you where your going ,but if we are right that will have been an eternal error on your part and you will have eternity to regret it... ....only to find you plummeting to your death with seconds to embrace regret and realize the ultimate miscalculation on your part has cost you far more than you assumed.

Not sure what we are all doing discussing this subject in this sub-forum but hey, I had to speak..

Roli, many christians would not be happy with some of the things you have said.

This kind of talk does more to push people away than anything, despite all the good things you have said. We all make 'errors' and 'miscalculations'. Do you think God will allow something as important as eternal life to be lost due to human technical error? People who don't fully understand won't be condemned just because they believe christians are delusional, and you need to stop judging them.

Roli, there was a time when you yourself did not believe, and you had to have something of a basic understanding of what had been done for you by Jesus and why he had to do it - all before you could really believe it. Only God knows whether others have enough basic understanding in order to make a decision to accept. You do not. Everyone will get a chance to understand, either in this life or the next, because "God does not show favouritism".

Tiberius · Aug 18, 2007

Better to be an atheist. it leaves you free to seke the truth about the universe without being directed by preconceived ideas.

painted wolf · Aug 19, 2007

You can't force someone to belive in something...
I highly doubt that any deity would be positively inclided to some who "believed" just to hedge thier bets anyway.

Best to not pretend to be something you're not. I'm sure God has more respect for the good non-believer than the bad believer.

wa:do

Smoke · Aug 19, 2007

Even when I was a believer, I thought that atheism was better than most forms of belief.
Now I think it's better than all of them.

roli · Dec 14, 2007

Atheist_Dave said:
Sky. God did not give us right and wrong, because right and wrong do not exist to our whole race. Right and wrong is different for every person, and therefore god can not have created it, or we would all feel the same right? They did not grow into savages, they grew into animals, which if we peel back all our thoughts and feelings, that is what we are.

Click to expand...

I understand of course that your disbelief in God plays no part in your relativistic mindset.
Do you see how absurd that line of reasoning is that says, right and wrong are different for each of us.I'm sure that would change if it happened to you.
If I raped your sister, killed your mother,stole every posession you owned then burned down your house,would that be wrong, keeping in mind it those things were'nt wrong for you prior to me doing them to you.
If I teach children that we are animals, there is no right and wrong and that you do what makes you feel good, then we end up with a society that is as ours is today.
Immoral, ammoral savage like barbarians,not having any ability to discern what the boundaries are

You think you know right and wrong because of god, but you dont. You know right and wrong from what you have read about this supposed all mighty creator. Yeah, the holy books have many lessons all of us could do with thinking about now and again, but without it we would still have right and wrong.

Click to expand...

You know stealing,lying,murder,rape,are wrong, your conscience tells you this, not someonelse

For me to eat ham is fine by me, but for a jew it is wrong. See what I mean?

Click to expand...

This is a ceremonial law that the jews were told to obey, God tells us what animals not to eat for health reasons. Pork is not the cleanest or healthiest animal in the world to eat, in case you did'nt know that already

camanintx · Dec 14, 2007

roli said:
You know stealing,lying,murder,rape,are wrong, your conscience tells you this, not someone else.

Are you saying that actions alone can be right or wrong? Isn't it really the motive for the action that we are judging? If morality is about the reason for an action then how can morality be objective if our motives are totally subjective?

Papersock · Dec 14, 2007

roli said:
You know stealing,lying,murder,rape,are wrong, your conscience tells you this, not someonelse

Actually, everyone else told me this, my whole life. If I had grown up with everyone telling me these things were ok, maybe my conscience would also be ok with it.

Is it better to be a believer or an athiest?

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