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when morality becomes hypocrisy.

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I tend to believe I have pretty decent morals, but do I?

Example of the sicko's that took all those teen girls and selling them for $12 each.

Not only do I want them all dead, but all those who are buying the kids to use as sex slaves, I want dead too.

Does this make me no better then them?
Is the moral thing to do is put them in prison, give them shelter and feed them?

sounds like a healthy sense of justice to me.
 

kashmir

Well-Known Member
I agree that people who do something like that don't deserve to live and the world would be better off without them. However, death would be too easy and too quick.

I think they should be put into high security prisons and made to work very hard for the rest of their miserable existence. All the profit made by their work should be given to the families of their victims. That's my sense of justice.

I heard that before and it's a very good idea.
It's messed up that sicko's get free food, free housing, free medical, free education, while the victims get nothing.

I just thought of something, blood clinics pay people to donate plasma, so why cant we force prisoners to donate theirs twice a week and at least use that money to help pay for their food and stuff?
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
I think that people should get the punishment that's in proportion to the harm of the crime. If you destroy someone else's life (short of killing), I think you should have your life taken from you. At the very least, I wouldn't feel bad if they did get killed. Boko Haram should be wiped out for what they've done (not only for kidnapping these girls but also for all the people they've killed), but any person who buys these girls should also get the death penalty for contributing to the gross traumatization and dehumanization of them.

Well, Satan is associated with fire, so... ;)

If nothing else, perpetuating the cycle of violence would certainly help with this overpopulation problem we have.

I was thinking a different set of gods, but Satan certainly works too. :D

So what would you do with those sicko's selling kids into slavery for $12 each?

Nothing. It's not my affair. The only thing that is my affair on this is how I judge them. I have extremely limited information about these people, and I don't know them personally. Even if I did have more information, I do not demonize people (or anything, really). I prefer the path of understanding.

I fail to see how God has anything to do with this.

The one-god? Oh, I don't imagine that god has anything to do with it either but I'm an atheist with respect that god, so you'd probably want to ask someone who believes in that god.

The gods I recognize? Broadly speaking, any act can be in service to the gods, but I'm not sure we want to derail the thread with this conversation, because if you're not a polytheist yourself, it won't be relevant to you.
 

kashmir

Well-Known Member
Nothing. It's not my affair. The only thing that is my affair on this is how I judge them. I have extremely limited information about these people, and I don't know them personally. Even if I did have more information, I do not demonize people (or anything, really). I prefer the path of understanding.
What more do you need to understand?
Kidnapping teen girls and selling them into slavery for $12
There is no justification for that.


The one-god? Oh, I don't imagine that god has anything to do with it either but I'm an atheist with respect that god, so you'd probably want to ask someone who believes in that god.

The gods I recognize? Broadly speaking, any act can be in service to the gods, but I'm not sure we want to derail the thread with this conversation, because if you're not a polytheist yourself, it won't be relevant to you.

You seem to suggest the reason why it is wrong in the eyes of theists, is because their god tells them it is wrong, that is what I am gathering.
I should hope an sane person can figure this out for themselves.

Speaking of god though, I assume those responsible for this, have twisted someones holy book to permit it and deem it moral.
Just as the 9/11 terrorists did, they thought they were doing the will of their god.

It doesn't matter to me that this thread take that turn, sometimes when threads go off in a different direction, we all end up learning something new.

In a broad sense though, its still on topic to discuss made up gods and morality. :D
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
What more do you need to understand?
Kidnapping teen girls and selling them into slavery for $12
There is no justification for that.

Sir, I wasn't talking about justification or lack thereof. Let's try again to convey what I was saying there:

I don't demonize things.

I don't find it useful or beneficial. What I do find useful and beneficial is to understand things from a more objective and impartial point of view. I hope that's clear enough now, because I don't know how else to put it.

You seem to suggest the reason why it is wrong in the eyes of theists, is because their god tells them it is wrong, that is what I am gathering.
I should hope an sane person can figure this out for themselves.

Oh dear, that's not what I mean to suggest at all! I don't know how you came to this interpretation, but I can only assume it's because the most familiar variety of monotheisms sometimes state morality comes from their one-god. It... really doesn't work that way in polytheisms. How various theisms approach ethics or morality varies quite a lot in general, and sometimes it is only indirectly involved (as it is in polytheisms).

In a broad sense though, its still on topic to discuss made up gods and morality. :D

Well, my gods aren't "made up" so I guess that ends this conversation. :sarcastic
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Speaking of morality and hypocrisy people who subscribe to legalistic religions are void of them. Muslims for example although capable of making moral action do not do so because of the sake of morality. This brings forth the issue of legal positivism and whether morality affects legality.
The legality of behavior does not necessitate the morality of a person. Divine mandate is not a perquisite to ethical conduct and proper behavior. Morals are the norms and opinions of the minds(people) of a society. Morals are the products of those mind's majority acceptance for the toleration, acceptance or condemnation of a behavior. Laws and jurisprudence can be based from moral behavior but by no means does law become morality. If a Muslim for example says: "my religion teaches me that killing is wrong". This by no means is moral behavior because the individual is not basing his or her's conduct from a moral basis. The basis is that an individual(God) is not satisfied with this behavior and your behavior is done out of the satisfaction of this individual. On top of this the behavior is done out of fear of punishment and blind acceptance.
There is no such thing as a morality based off religion. Nor is there no such thing as an objective morality because both concepts negate morality. Using this understanding(not reasoning) of what law and morality is it is easy to see that people of religion do not have morality but obedience to a legal system. Their own actions are not thought out in regards to their conduct but in accord to their appeasement of the legislator.
Furthermore religious individuals do not abide by the literal conduct of their holy texts as they use outside and uncited sources which do not abide by any hierarchical citation. If you know of the Bluebook format you know that theologians cannot reconcile verses due to their predetermined views regarding the legality of a conduct and instead use actual morals to make their own morals legally binding to the written text. This becomes false legality and again, ruins the morality of behavior. Without hierarchical citations from the legislator(God) one cannot use history or hermeneutics to posit different meaning beyond the literalism of a text. So almost all religious individuals are disobeying the law and abiding by immoral conduct by not keeping an obligation intact.
Thus all religious individuals are immoral if their religion treats morality as a set of laws.
 

kashmir

Well-Known Member
Speaking of morality and hypocrisy people who subscribe to legalistic religions are void of them. Muslims for example although capable of making moral action do not do so because of the sake of morality. This brings forth the issue of legal positivism and whether morality affects legality.
The legality of behavior does not necessitate the morality of a person. Divine mandate is not a perquisite to ethical conduct and proper behavior. Morals are the norms and opinions of the minds(people) of a society. Morals are the products of those mind's majority acceptance for the toleration, acceptance or condemnation of a behavior. Laws and jurisprudence can be based from moral behavior but by no means does law become morality. If a Muslim for example says: "my religion teaches me that killing is wrong". This by no means is moral behavior because the individual is not basing his or her's conduct from a moral basis. The basis is that an individual(God) is not satisfied with this behavior and your behavior is done out of the satisfaction of this individual. On top of this the behavior is done out of fear of punishment and blind acceptance.
There is no such thing as a morality based off religion. Nor is there no such thing as an objective morality because both concepts negate morality. Using this understanding(not reasoning) of what law and morality is it is easy to see that people of religion do not have morality but obedience to a legal system. Their own actions are not thought out in regards to their conduct but in accord to their appeasement of the legislator.
Furthermore religious individuals do not abide by the literal conduct of their holy texts as they use outside and uncited sources which do not abide by any hierarchical citation. If you know of the Bluebook format you know that theologians cannot reconcile verses due to their predetermined views regarding the legality of a conduct and instead use actual morals to make their own morals legally binding to the written text. This becomes false legality and again, ruins the morality of behavior. Without hierarchical citations from the legislator(God) one cannot use history or hermeneutics to posit different meaning beyond the literalism of a text. So almost all religious individuals are disobeying the law and abiding by immoral conduct by not keeping an obligation intact.
Thus all religious individuals are immoral if their religion treats morality as a set of laws.

Sort of confusing to me, but it makes sense in the end.
The reason why terrorists are so dangerous, is because they accept what their god says and are basing morality off of that.
They think that blowing up innocent people, selling kids into sex slavery, and torturing others is moral.
The same with laws created by holy books that are allowing them over their to legally torture and murder others for not bowing down to their gods.

At least in the USA, we only have the WBC to worry about, a few bikers with loud engines seems to be stopping them dead in their tracks.
Complete non violent method to stop violent hateful people. :D
 

Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Sort of confusing to me, but it makes sense in the end.
The reason why terrorists are so dangerous, is because they accept what their god says and are basing morality off of that.
They think that blowing up innocent people, selling kids into sex slavery, and torturing others is moral.
The same with laws created by holy books that are allowing them over their to legally torture and murder others for not bowing down to their gods.

At least in the USA, we only have the WBC to worry about, a few bikers with loud engines seems to be stopping them dead in their tracks.
Complete non violent method to stop violent hateful people. :D

Sorry about that dude, I am making a blog entry about this. I am a big fan of legal theory and I will clear the explanation up and break it down. I am preparing a refutation for religious morality and objective morality.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
If nothing else, perpetuating the cycle of violence would certainly help with this overpopulation problem we have.

That's a good point. There's too many useless and criminal people who are taking resources from people who deserve it more, imo. After birth population control. Lol.

I was thinking a different set of gods, but Satan certainly works too. :D

I wonder which Gods you were thinking of? Haha. But Satan works, indeed. ;)
 

Slapstick

Active Member
I tend to believe I have pretty decent morals, but do I?

Example of the sicko's that took all those teen girls and selling them for $12 each.

Not only do I want them all dead, but all those who are buying the kids to use as sex slaves, I want dead too.

Does this make me no better then them?
Is the moral thing to do is put them in prison, give them shelter and feed them?
No, I think its perfectly normal and you are justified in your beliefs. But you have to remember the people who kidnapped all of the school girls are either mentally challenged or just plain dumb.
 

oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
Yes, although I would add that making them work to earn those privileges is also necessary.

A fisherman that I knew (now dead), who decided that running drugs might pay off his boat's mortgage where scallop dredging never would...... got caught on the French side and was sent to Longnesse prison in France (1994-2002). In order to improve the very basic diet he had to work. He had to work very hard, because if he could not also pay off the fine issued by the court then he would have to serve an extra two years in prison when he finished his basic sentence of eight years.

They don't mess about in France.
 
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