White Privilege Conference

Slapstick · May 19, 2014

Curious George said:
let me understand the terms: you want me to take the time to gather legitimate evidence that demonstrates current prejudices relating to race. If this evidence demonstrates that racial prejudices exist to the disadvantage of racial minorities, you will then admit that white privilege does indeed exist?

If it is that hard for you to understand then you probably don't need to debate it.

Slapstick · May 19, 2014

MysticSang'ha said:
Privilege is not the same as Rights. They are two very different academic terms in sociology.

Privilege is a subliminal and transparent advantage, where one does not have the same hurdles in life as others who are disadvantaged. It speaks nothing about the character of the person. If one earned a privilege or not. It's simply a term that describes a one-less-thing-to-worry-about that others systemically experience on an everyday basis.

Where I recognize my privilege as a white woman:
- flesh-colored bandages are in my skin tone and only in my skin tone
- hair products that help me groom are made for my hair type, whereas "ethnic" or "black" hair products are located in a smaller section
- nude-colored tights or hosiery are available in my skin tone. Tan-colored tights are suited for white skin that has been tanned.
- I can drive in neighborhoods without being regularly followed by police
- I can enter into various stores without being regularly followed by security
- I do not have a looming statistic of risk of incarceration of a family member
- I can read history books and learn how people with my skin color brought "civilization" to the New World.
- My race is represented by the country's Founding Fathers
- I do not have to hear "get over it" when it comes to the atrocity of slavery in the U.S. (though we will "never forget" the Holocaust, 9/11, or the sinking of the Titanic)

Another personal anecdote...every now and then I'd go to the movies with friends of mine who are people of color, and I'd be the only white woman in the theatre. Or, I'd go to a comedy club where the comedian is black, and being the one woman who was white in the club, I'd notice how I stood out. I'd hear from my friends how that is how they feel every day.

That is another way that I am oblivious to my privilege.

None of these are things that I am expected to apologize for. It's simply a perspective to get me out of thinking that the white experience is the default experience of Reality.

Perhaps that helps a little?

One or "Oneness" is purely subjective. Just because one person, or in this case, one "white person" happens to hopscotch through life doesn't mean all white people share that same "privileged" experience.

Alceste · May 19, 2014

Slapstick said:
Okay fine, make up a bunch of stuff and have it your way. But if you decide to opt back in and want to have a "civilized debate" like rational civilized people would do then you can.

I will. It's just that I have less time for RF than usual so I am practicing a new discussion strategy: recognizing a lost cause. Whether reacting against evolution, feminism, global warming, affirmative action, abortion, polyamory, gun control or any other subject that tends to trigger emotional reaction at the expense of interesting discussion, lost causes have many things in common. I'm training myself to avoid engaging with them because it is a waste of time, 100% of the time.

Shadow Wolf · May 19, 2014

How is it guilt, racism, or whatever to acknowledge people won't automatically assume I go into a store to steal, I don't have to worry about cops racially profiling me, or many of the other things I know that I have to my advantage, or don't have to really worry about, because I am white? Or, rather than seeing it as shame or guilt, wield it as tool to demonstrate things like the historical, scientific, philosophical, artistic and other achievements by those who are not white being largely omitted and ignored in school text books, pop culture and other avenues that base white as the norm. I haven't seen to many skin whitening creams that are marketed towards white girls. Black women on the other hand, it's sickening that someone would ever come up with the idea of making money of off trying to make someone who isn't white look more white.

Slapstick · May 20, 2014

Shadow Wolf said:
I haven't seen to many skin whitening creams that are marketed towards white girls. Black women on the other hand, it's sickening that someone would ever come up with the idea of making money of off trying to make someone who isn't white look more white.

Every white girl I have ever come across goes to the tanning bed or uses spray on BS to look dark. They are apparently ashamed of being white for some reasons. What might be the reason for that?

Shadow Wolf · May 20, 2014

Slapstick said:
Every white girl I have ever come across goes to the tanning bed or uses spray on BS to look dark. They are apparently ashamed of being white for some reasons. What might that reason be for that?

There is a difference between being pale (which I am, and unashamed of it), and being white.

Slapstick · May 20, 2014

Shadow Wolf said:
There is a difference between being pale (which I am, and unashamed of it), and being white.

What is the difference? I am probably a mixture of both.

Curious George · May 20, 2014

Slapstick said:
If it is that hard for you to understand then you probably don't need to debate it.

well you certainly don't seem like you are prepared to listen openly to evidence. Rather you sound as though you are going to go of your way to see what you want. if when I ask for clarification you are unable to elaborate on your post, I begin to think not only do you lack an understanding of privilege, but also an understanding of that which you say. Thus, my first comment seems to have hit the mark.

Cheers

Curious George · May 20, 2014

Slapstick said:
One or "Oneness" is purely subjective. Just because one person, or in this case, one "white person" happens to hopscotch through life doesn't mean all white people share that same "privileged" experience.

Privilege is not about individuals, it is about statistics. just because it is statistically easier for a white person to rent, does not mean that in every situation a white person will find it easier to rent. You are showing your ignorance again.

Slapstick · May 20, 2014

Curious George said:
well you certainly don't seem like you are prepared to listen openly to evidence. Rather you sound as though you are going to go of your way to see what you want. if when I ask for clarification you are unable to elaborate on your post, I begin to think not only do you lack an understanding of privilege, but also an understanding of that which you say. Thus, my first comment seems to have hit the mark.

Cheers

What was your first comment? All i remember is you beating around the bush and not wanting to debate. I am still waiting for you to provide evidence for why white people have more privilege than others if that makes any sense for you.

Curious George said:
Privilege is not about individuals, it is about statistics. just because it is statistically easier for a white person to rent, does not mean that in every situation a white person will find it easier to rent. You are showing your ignorance again.

This must be some kind of joke. Taking this seriously would be like me trying conduct heart surgery through someones anal.

Curious George · May 20, 2014

Slapstick said:
What was your first comment? All i remember is you beating around the bush and not wanting to debate. I am still waiting for you to provide evidence for why white people have more privilege than others if that makes any sense for you.

This must be some kind of joke. Taking this seriously would be like me trying conduct heart surgery through someones anal.

Again, you are just showing how you fail to grasp a concept.

Slapstick · May 20, 2014

Curious George said:
Again, you are just showing how you fail to grasp a concept.

Okay, whatever dood, you can continue living in your imaginary world and think you are better than everyone else.

Curious George · May 20, 2014

Slapstick said:
Okay, whatever dood, you can continue living in your imaginary world and think you are better than everyone else.

I do not think I am better than anyone. I am not even sure why you would think my knowledge regarding privilege would give rise to me thinking I am better than you.

YmirGF · May 20, 2014

Maybe I'm just incredibly slow, but how, exactly does Critical Race Theory empower non-white human animals?

Alceste · May 20, 2014

Shadow Wolf said:
How is it guilt, racism, or whatever to acknowledge people won't automatically assume I go into a store to steal, I don't have to worry about cops racially profiling me, or many of the other things I know that I have to my advantage, or don't have to really worry about, because I am white? Or, rather than seeing it as shame or guilt, wield it as tool to demonstrate things like the historical, scientific, philosophical, artistic and other achievements by those who are not white being largely omitted and ignored in school text books, pop culture and other avenues that base white as the norm. I haven't seen to many skin whitening creams that are marketed towards white girls. Black women on the other hand, it's sickening that someone would ever come up with the idea of making money of off trying to make someone who isn't white look more white.

Good question. Going back to the subject of tall privilege - does the fact that I'm aware the world I live in (Canada) is built for people my height (5'9") make me ashamed? Am I a self hating tall person?

No, I'm just aware that little wee Heather probably can't even use the top shelf of her kitchen cupboards.

I'm also aware that I have a statistical advantage over Heather at a job interview because I read a study that found short people have a more difficult time getting hired.

There's no emotional subtext here at all, for me. It's in the category of "mildly interesting shower thoughts". Also, being aware that I'm in a tall person's world makes it easier to empathize with the little daily hassles short people go through.

Shadow Wolf · May 20, 2014

Slapstick said:
What is the difference? I am probably a mixture of both.

Really? Being pale means you really do look white, some of us nearly literally paper white (I'm not quite that pale). Being white means being accepted as having a white European lineage. You can still be white and be so pale people call you a ghost, be white and a normal brownish tan or a "fake and bake" orange tan, or many other things. It's really not a complicated concept.

Slapstick said:
What was your first comment? All i remember is you beating around the bush and not wanting to debate. I am still waiting for you to provide evidence for why white people have more privilege than others if that makes any sense for you.

People do not see a white person and think of this white person as a scary threat unless they really look like it. All a black community has to do is exist for their streets to be accused of being plagued with drugs and violence. Because you are white, you can rest assured and know that the accomplishments and advances made by white people will be remembered in the annals of history, even if it is just some white dude getting credit for something someone who wasn't white did.

Slapstick said:
One or "Oneness" is purely subjective. Just because one person, or in this case, one "white person" happens to hopscotch through life doesn't mean all white people share that same "privileged" experience.

Of course not all white people share the same privileges, but if you are white and do not deviate too far from the norm, chances are very good that people will not assume you are a thug unless you really are acting like it. Plenty of white people have also been found innocent or no-verdict when they have killed black people (such as the recent loud music case). White privilege is really the only privilege that is better than male privilege, which pretty much gives you a permission card to do anything you want as long as it isn't girly and it puts more money in your pocket.

MysticSang'ha · May 20, 2014

Alceste said:
Good question. Going back to the subject of tall privilege - does the fact that I'm aware the world I live in (Canada) is built for people my height (5'9") make me ashamed? Am I a self hating tall person?

No, I'm just aware that little wee Heather probably can't even use the top shelf of her kitchen cupboards.

I'm also aware that I have a statistical advantage over Heather at a job interview because I read a study that found short people have a more difficult time getting hired.

There's no emotional subtext here at all, for me. It's in the category of "mildly interesting shower thoughts". Also, being aware that I'm in a tall person's world makes it easier to empathize with the little daily hassles short people go through.

Not only is this evidence of self-hatred on your part, Alceste, but if I bring up height privilege at all when it comes to socio-economic advantage, it means that I'm automatically hostile and anti-tall. AND it means that I want to make life horrible for all tall people.

Shame on both of us. We need to stop talking about it while I just keep telling myself that life isn't fair, you just remember everything you earned had nothing to do with your height (it's all merit-based, so be proud of it) and I just work on my ninja skills on the stepladder.

Revoltingest · May 20, 2014

MysticSang'ha said:
Not only is this evidence of self-hatred on your part, Alceste, but if I bring up height privilege at all when it comes to socio-economic advantage, it means that I'm automatically hostile and anti-tall. AND it means that I want to make life horrible for all tall people.

Shame on both of us. We need to stop talking about it while I just keep telling myself that life isn't fair, you just remember everything you earned had nothing to do with your height (it's all merit-based, so be proud of it) and I just work on my ninja skills on the stepladder.

Why do Randy Newman & I hate short people?
Envy!
They're superior for many reasons:
- More brainpower per pound of body mass means they're more resource efficient.
- In a technological society, their smaller size is future of mankind. Who needs behemoths with their demands for huge cars, high ceilings, & tent sized clothing?
- Short women are hotter.
- Short people are sturdy.
- Small stature is ideal for space travel.
- They're better gymnasts.

MysticSang'ha · May 20, 2014

Revoltingest said:
Why do Randy Newman & I hate short people?
Envy!
They're superior for many reasons:
- More brainpower per pound of body mass means they're more resource efficient.
- In a technological society, their smaller size is future of mankind. Who needs behemoths with their demands for huge cars, high ceilings, & tent sized clothing?
- Short women are hotter.
- Short people are sturdy.
- Small stature is ideal for space travel.
- They're better gymnasts.

Oh I'm aware of how my size is ideal for conservation and efficiency. My goals are to find how I fit in the means of production, though.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed that nanotechnology will take off at some point in my lifetime. )(

Revoltingest · May 20, 2014

MysticSang'ha said:
Oh I'm aware of how my size is ideal for conservation and efficiency. My goals are to find how I fit in the means of production, though.
I'm keeping my fingers crossed that nanotechnology will take off at some point in my lifetime. )(

In your business, small size is no less productive than large.
What you need to worry about is dancebots taking over.

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