Are Hindu Deities real or just concepts??

Friend disciple,

Hmm thanks for your answer, yes, I would classify that under the 'real' category as well.

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Now that is '[confusing'. Could you clarify your understanding about 'real deity' and 'conceptual deity'??

Love & rgds

disciple said:

No. It was the assumption that I was somehow asking the 'wrong' question or similar tone. Also, he doesn't speak for others, especially since he doesn't have Hinduism listed next to his religion.

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Disciple, the intent behind what I'm attempting to explain wasn't to suggest that you're asking the "wrong" question. One thing I learned when I did survey work is that you want to keep in mind the respondent when asking questions by considering how the question will read to them, not to you as the researcher. In essence, you want to frame questions in a way that doesn't impose your own assumptions on the respondent, because that makes it difficult for the respondent to answer the question in a way that is true to what they believe or feel. You may still get responses, but the data you get may not be properly representative, which means you might make incorrect conclusions in your research. Granted this is hardly proper research, but I still think these things are worth keeping in mind, especially when discussing complex subjects like religion where the ontological and metaphysical premises people have can differ in very significant and meaningful ways. I'm sorry if I've somehow offended you, because that's not at all my intent.

Quintessence said:

Disciple, the intent behind what I'm attempting to explain wasn't to suggest that you're asking the "wrong" question. One thing I learned when I did survey work is that you want to keep in mind the respondent when asking questions by considering how the question will read to them, not to you as the researcher. In essence, you want to frame questions in a way that doesn't impose your own assumptions on the respondent, because that makes it difficult for the respondent to answer the question in a way that is true to what they believe or feel. You may still get responses, but the data you get may not be properly representative, which means you might make incorrect conclusions in your research. Granted this is hardly proper research, but I still think these things are worth keeping in mind, especially when discussing complex subjects like religion where the ontological and metaphysical premises people have can differ in very significant and meaningful ways. I'm sorry if I've somehow offended you, because that's not at all my intent.

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I don't think it was your intent, but, if you re-read my OP you'll see I was very specific...I didn't want responses that weren't clear in according to the question.

So, if someone says...'hmm I don't know'...or whatever, that's fine to. My question isn't open-ended for interpretation..

I believe higher beings are real and their reality is beyond our ability to grasp. So as a temporary aid we put a name and a form on them so our minds can better relate.

Friend George-anand,

I believe higher beings are real

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Sorry brother, so far have realised that 'humans' are the most evolved BEings.
If you have any indications from any quarters about 'higher BEings' kindly offer us such insights so that we too can know about such BEings.
Surely human minds have imagined travelling below the seas or to the moon [Jules Verne]and did it eventually. There is nothing that minds cannot imagine but till we reach physically and consciously to such places we cannot vouch for it.

Love & rgds

LuisDantas said:

I don't see how any god can be more than a concept.

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True, just like we all are concepts.

Vinayaka said:

I've also had the rare opportunity to stand alone with no crowd at one of these massive temples. (Brihadeeswara) Energy was the same. The crowd has an energy too, but its a different energy than the one coming from the inner sanctum.

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I am hoping that when I go to temple, I will begin to feel the energies. Maybe one has to be open and receptive to it, like a lightning rod. Maybe I never felt it before because I was closed to it.

Jainarayan said:

I am hoping that when I go to temple, I will begin to feel the energies. Maybe one has to be open and receptive to it, like a lightning rod. Maybe I never felt it before because I was closed to it.

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I really have no explanation for why some people feel it and others don't. Another of life's great mysteries. The first time I felt 'it' was while driving a swather on my childhood farm. It wasn't in a Hindu temple at all.

zenzero said:

Friend George-anand,


Sorry brother, so far have realised that 'humans' are the most evolved BEings.
If you have any indications from any quarters about 'higher BEings' kindly offer us such insights so that we too can know about such BEings.
Surely human minds have imagined travelling below the seas or to the moon [Jules Verne]and did it eventually. There is nothing that minds cannot imagine but till we reach physically and consciously to such places we cannot vouch for it.

Love & rgds

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Friend zenzero,

My belief in 'higher BEings' comes from my study of the paranormal and the teachings of many masters I revere. I have come to believe there are many planes to nature and our beloved physical one is the only one our senses and physical instruments can reach. And I have come to believe there are beings on each of these higher levels. And Jules Verne will never find them with his senses or instruments. And neither will the astronaut. Only human consciousness in a transcendent state can see there.

namaskaram deciple ji

disciple said:

Are the hindu Deities real, or just concepts/ideas?

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Real

And by real I mean actual Deities......not just 'real concepts'..

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yes actual real Deities , .....they are the real and ourselves the un real as we are the temporary imperminant particles of somthing far greater than our capabilities can comprehend .

personaly from experience I would be happy to say that each of the Deities within the Hindu parthenon are eminations or incarnations of the one supreme ...
I am with Vinayaka where he says that many people experience at first what might seem to be a strong presence or power in certain places such as temples and pilgrimage sites , this can be the first awakening as many agnostics experience this and often find that it leads them to further questioning and eventualy on to a fully developed beleif .

there are also those of firm faith that experience the presence of the Deity through the chanting of nama as the Deity is all pervasive and not only present in the Deity form but present in the name and even in the recolection of either name or form .

eventualy the devotee forms a such a strong bond with the Deity that he or she sees that Deities presence everywhere , one could say that the devotee learns to see beyond this temporary conditioned existance and develops sences beyond those we develop as a nececity to deal with this material world , the development of such non material sences could be said to be enlightened awareness

Vinayaka said:

Depends on the school, so I can only speak for mine.

They are absolutely real. God is God, he's real and the Gods are divine beings living in the inner planes, and able to communicate with this plane. Our sages and mystics (and occasionally 'regular' folk) have had visions of them in their etheric bodies of light.

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So here's a question... Have you had an experience of seeing a god in some form or another?

Nakosis said:

So here's a question... Have you had an experience of seeing a god in some form or another?

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If I did, I wouldn't tell you. Hindus ( I mean orthodox ones) generally don't talk about their inner experiences. Telling people robs the sacredness from the experience. It's not something to be put out there for others to debate about, although that does happen.

Generally the naysayers just accuse the mystics of lying, having hallucinations, or having huge imaginations. But it's all good.

Satyamavejayanti said:

You will get many answers depending on the school and Darshan of the individual.

Me personally i would look at it in these ways. My personal Hindu view.

For me the concept of a deity is different to what we term Deva/Devi/Brahman ect ect.

As for their (Deva/Devi/Brahman) existence.
Yes, they are real physically, and exist in this world. Why? because it depends on the individual of what they truly consider a Deva/Devi. e.g: "Mata devoh bhava", mother is Deva, My mother in human form, Mother earth or a concept which can be termed as motherly are all real.

Even Brahman itself is real physically, as it is this entire existence, and if this exists then so does that, you don't have to look far to see Brahman.

So i think Brahman/Deva/Devi do exist in physical reality as well as concepts and ideas.

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Hmm thanks for the response, very interesting.

Nakosis said:

So here's a question... Have you had an experience of seeing a god in some form or another?

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Oh yes. I see it all the time, wherever my eyes go. But it may not be correct to term what exists as God or Goddess. It is something even more wonderful, more mysterious (at least for now). It is a fallacy to make it into a God or Goddess, sort of limits it. Hindus say 'Sarvam khalu idam Brahma' (all things here are Brahman), 'Eko sad, dwiteeyo nasti' (what exists is one, there is no second), 'Aham Brahmasmi' (I am Brahman), 'Tat twam asi' (that is what you are).

Seyorni said:

The deities can be either -- your choice. They're your creation, after all.

We generate -- dream -- our own subjective realities -- time, cars, teapots, &c.
There are different realities in different levels of consciousness. Dreams, for example, are real while we're dreaming them. but when we wake in the morning to third state consciousness it's immediately obvious that they were illusory. Likewise, when we wake from this state it'll be clear that our present waking state is just another level of self generated illusion.

If we choose to create a God, that God can be as real as our spouse or TV set is -- subjectively real but objectively illusory.
When we eventually wake to a higher state, the illusory nature of our God and TV will be immediately obvious.

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Hello. I can relate to this.

However, does one know the Seer that sees the sleep, dream, and waking states and so called beings in those states (including the waking and dream state ME-s)?

And before being that Seer, how can one who considers the 'seen' body as 'Me', say there is no deity? Has ego self created the world?

On this matter, I rely on what Shri Ramana Maharshi teaches.

God

Question: You say that even the highest God is still only an idea. Does that mean that there is no God?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: No, there is an Iswara.

Question: Does he exist in any particular place or form?

Sri Ramana Maharshi: If the individual is a form, even Self, the source, who is the Lord, will also appear to be form. If one is not a form, since there then cannot be knowledge of other things, will that statement that God has a form be correct? God assumes any form imagined by the devotees through repeated thinking in prolonged meditation. Though he thus assumes endless names, the real formless consciousness alone is God.

With regard to his location, God does not reside in any place other than the Heart. It is due to illusion, caused by the ego, the ‘I am the body’ idea, that the kingdom of God is conceived to be elsewhere. Be sure that the Heart is the kingdom of God.

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And

God, who seems to be non-existent, alone truly exists. Whereas the individual, who seems to be existing, is ever non-existent. Sages say that the state in which one thus knows one’s own non-existence (sunya) alone is the glorious supreme knowledge.

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I'm unsure about whether the gods are literally real or not. I'd like them to be and I have great affection for Krishna, but until I meet him or have some amazing realisation I cannot say absolutely that they exist or not.

atanu said:

On this matter, I rely on what Shri Ramana Maharshi teaches.

God

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Let me also add another view.

Zen for Americans: The God-Conception of Buddhism

I think the Murti's are methaphor and symbols.

I think we and everything else alive are the forms of God, so in that sense we/they are real.

Maya

Friend George,

You missed the point raised. By reading we can only imagine like Jules Verne but real transcendence is a pre-condition to validate through expeeience. At best one can hold on to imaginations / dreams / illusions as real.

Love & rgds

George-ananda said:

Friend zenzero,

My belief in 'higher BEings' comes from my study of the paranormal and the teachings of many masters I revere. I have come to believe there are many planes to nature and our beloved physical one is the only one our senses and physical instruments can reach. And I have come to believe there are beings on each of these higher levels. And Jules Verne will never find them with his senses or instruments. And neither will the astronaut. Only human consciousness in a transcendent state can see there.

Click to expand...