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Discrimination against homosexuals? Or exercising freedom of conscience?

MysticSang'ha

MysticSang'ha

Big Squishy Hugger
Premium Member
Say it ain't so, Kentucky! Herald Embroidery has made some news in the blogosphere with their sticker on the front of their business suggesting that Christians, guns, and beards are welcomed. But foul language and....rainbow flags...aren't?

So, people got angry and thought they didn't allow openly gay patrons into their business. One response was given from the business was this as a clarification:

We recently posted five 3" stickers on the front entrance to our shop. Two of these stickers are negative and prohibitive in there message. We will not serve people that are foul-mouthed, nor will we serve people that flaunt their homosexual lifestyle in our place of business and/or request us to produce promotional products that do so. Matthew Lombard, Owner
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So I did a little more digging, and looked at their website, and wondered if they do actually welcome openly gay patrons, but don't produce material that promote same sex marriage rights or emblems similar.

Checking the business website about the picture that has a sign with the rainbow flag displayed with a cross through it, they have clarified their intentions:

“While we will serve all customers who treat our place of business with respect, we reserve the right to refuse to produce promotional products that promote ideas that are not in keeping with our consciences. This includes, but is not limited to content promoting homosexuality, freemasonry, the use of foul language, and imagery which promotes immodesty.”
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Herald Embroidery

Okay, so what do you think the stickers mean? Is it ambiguous to you, or is the intention clear?
 
Jainarayan

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
To me the intention is clear, though they may very well think they are abiding by their conscience and think they are being diplomatic. Distasteful and discriminatory as it may be to some of us, I believe it's their right. Not hiring or firing a gay person is another matter, one of federal law.
 
tytlyf

tytlyf

Not Religious
So the rainbow sticker means they won't print LBGT material or not let them in the door if they look a certain way?

Does the gun sticker and the beard sticker mean that these print types are welcome? Who prints beards?

You see what I'm getting at.
 
Drolefille

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
"Promoting homosexuality" is often "daring to be with your partner in public and not act like friends." The pretense is that it is "groping each other and being all gross" but that isn't the reality.

Sorry sticker people, still bigots.
 
Amechania

Amechania

Daimona of the Helpless
i don't know that the right to refuse service to anyone covers outright descrimination based on sexual preference. "Flaunting" is so subjective. The couple in the story were merely holding hands and got the cold shoulder. This is bigoted and ought to be illegal.
 
Debater Slayer

Debater Slayer

Vipassana
Staff member
Premium Member
Another disgustingly bigoted fundamentalist Christian business. How shocking.

I think they have a right not to promote things they disagree with, even if their views are ridiculously prejudiced and irrational. Refusing to serve certain groups of people is different from not promoting products the business finds objectionable.
 
Gehennaite

Gehennaite

Active Member
MysticSang'ha said:
Okay, so what do you think the stickers mean? Is it ambiguous to you, or is the intention clear?
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The message seems clear to me.

People can use whatever measures it takes to defend their consciousness. I have no qualms with discrimination & criticism. I'd even go so far as to say that I condone certain expressions of violence if that is what it takes to defend the wellbeing of your consciousness.

Simply put, it is impossible to experience an objective, universal experience in this world. There is no equilibrium. Don't expect equality in cultures where your lifestyle would be considered abnormal.

I live pretty far out of the norm of human psychology myself. I know what discrimination feels like. It is really not that difficult to just deal with it.
 
G

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Gehennaite said:
People can use whatever measures it takes to defend their consciousness. I have no qualms with discrimination & criticism.
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Fair enough. The real discrimination often becomes that against those who don't want to go along with the official, politically-correct line. In Britain, we had first Civil Partnerships and now same-sex marriage. What of registrars who felt it was a violation of their faith to condict the ceremonies? They lost their jobs. They could have been allowed to conduct the ceremonies they felt happy with, but that was deemed unacceptable. So, if you're a Christian, Orthodox Jew, Baha'i, or Sikh, you can't work as a registrar in Britain. And they call that promoting equality.
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
DavidMcCann said:
Fair enough. The real discrimination often becomes that against those who don't want to go along with the official, politically-correct line. In Britain, we had first Civil Partnerships and now same-sex marriage. What of registrars who felt it was a violation of their faith to condict the ceremonies? They lost their jobs. They could have been allowed to conduct the ceremonies they felt happy with, but that was deemed unacceptable. So, if you're a Christian, Orthodox Jew, Baha'i, or Sikh, you can't work as a registrar in Britain. And they call that promoting equality.
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I sometimes feel sorry for people who lose their jobs because their beliefs lead them deny basic human rights to some group of people. But not because they've lost their jobs -- but because they hold such beliefs.
 
Drolefille

Drolefille

PolyPanGeekGirl
DavidMcCann said:
. So, if you're a Christian, Orthodox Jew, Baha'i, or Sikh, you can't work as a registrar in Britain. And they call that promoting equality.
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No, I know plenty of Christians who would not have a problem registering a legal marriage that has nothing to do with their religion or a church.

If you work for the government, you're going to have a rough time keeping that job if you don't want to uphold all portions of the law relevant to your duties, not just the ones you personally agree with. Should a bailiff be allowed to refuse to bring a prisoner from the jail to a court case for drugs because he believes drugs should be legal? Or should someone be able to refuse a pagan couple to get married because they had sex first, or are having a religious handfasting later?

The government doesn't really get to discriminate like that, laws in the UK being different, it's still pretty similar.
 
Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Gehennaite said:
The message seems clear to me.

People can use whatever measures it takes to defend their consciousness. I have no qualms with discrimination & criticism. I'd even go so far as to say that I condone certain expressions of violence if that is what it takes to defend the wellbeing of your consciousness.

Simply put, it is impossible to experience an objective, universal experience in this world. There is no equilibrium. Don't expect equality in cultures where your lifestyle would be considered abnormal.

I live pretty far out of the norm of human psychology myself. I know what discrimination feels like. It is really not that difficult to just deal with it.
Click to expand...


What...?....:eek:
 
Uberpod

Uberpod

Active Member
Interacting with homosexuals as human beings is not a homosexual act, and therefore not really a sin even from the Xtian mindset. Persons who contend that doing business with homosexuals goes against their religion are engaged in poor reasoning and are shown to have no sense of boundary and domain.

Bottom line: people do not want to be told what to do and want to discriminate as they please. But, they generally hate being discriminated against.
 
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G

GoodbyeDave

Well-Known Member
Sunstone said:
I sometimes feel sorry for people who lose their jobs because their beliefs lead them deny basic human rights to some group of people. But not because they've lost their jobs -- but because they hold such beliefs.
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No-one is talking about denying "basic human rights" — at least I'm not. I'm merely saying that people should not be coerced into violating their beliefs or suffering because of them. There'd still be registrars available to register same-sex relationships. Personally, I don't believe in "human rights" — only in human duties — but that's another can of worms.
 
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